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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Lisaw on Saturday 31 May 08 16:54 BST (UK)
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I've been following the advice given in Optimize ScotlandsPeople search. I have been able to narrow my search down to 1 James Milne dying in Angus in 1898. Even was able to narrow down a birth year, 1863, if the person making the return knew his correct birth year. I went to the IGI batches & there are 29 James Milne's born in 1863, 25 of them born in Aberdeen, Angus, or Kincardine, my areas of family research.
When I searched I started out not using "include mothers unrecorded maiden surname" Then I wanted to know for sure who his parents are & I started to use that feature. The only problem is: Doesn't matter which maiden surname I use from the IGI batches, it says its his mom. His mother is not 25 women. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks for any advice,
Lisa
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If the mother's name is different (even spelling variation) the death certificate index will not match. Don't forget that information on death certificate is only what the informant gives which could be wrong.
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I'm not sure I understand your question, I've done the same search and come up with the one person. There is no mother's name on the index so it will come up with them all. If you uncheck the 'include unrecorded' it will only come u[p if the field is left blank.
I do know the mother's surname, by the way.
Gadget
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Thank you aghadowey. I've even tried typing in the surname of the person who made the return (Jane Murray & her maiden surname Matthew) into the "other surnames" spot & get no matches then. I'll start on the variations of surnames now. Probably be easier if I'd just break down & buy it.....but I'm too cheap!!
Thanks again,
Lisa
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Lisa
Do you know his parents first names...and do you know his mother's maiden name?
mab
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As I said, it's not on the index, however it is on the certificate. This is why checking 'unrecorded' doesn't work 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Is that right Gadget....I don't suppose you'd share that name with me would you? I'd really appreciate it. This guy came out of the blue as being my gr grandfather & no one in my family believes me. The man my Dad called grampa was Alexander Mitchell Briggs, whom he is named after.
Lisa
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Well, Lisa, he's single ;)
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LOl you're teasing me now Gadget
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I have no idea what his parents names are....he came out of the blue!! I'm kinda thinking there might be a Henrietta in his family though. And this would be the reason why when Gramma recieved her original birth register from Scotland that she got so mad she ripped it up & threw it in the trash....she didn't know!! We thought it was probably because she consistently lied about her age & now everyone would know how old she really was. I know she didn't know...she named my Dad after the wrong guy LOL.
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Well the only christening I can find with a Henrietta involved is a James Milne christened 12 JUN 1825 Fyvie, Aberdeen, Scotland Father William Milne and Mother Henrietta Smith.......sorry :-\
mab
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I'm sorry if I mislead you people. Gramma was born Henrietta Matthew on Apr 18 1897. A lady who worked across the street from the Dundee archives looked it up for me. She is the one who told me that James Milne is grammas' dad & not Alexander Briggs. This interested her to see why they never married so she went & found James Milne's death register Jan of 1898, Jane Matthew/Murray was the informant. Jane is my gr grandmother. She didn't think to include or there wasn't a mothers maiden surname for James. I can't find her address anymore or I'd contact her again.
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Hi Lisa
I've been running some checks with the IGI and SP on the one you identified :)
Your example is one where the Optimisation doesn't work.
1. The person you narrowed it down to had an unindexed mother's maiden name. This will not work with the checking of the 'record unrecorded..........'
2. He doesn't appear in SP or the IGI for an1863 birth.
3. He does appear on SP as an 1862 birth (Nov 9th). Thus, his birth month was after his death month.(April 29th)
4. I'm not sure if this is the one that you really want. His death cert records him as single, an imbecile with mother's maiden surname, Brown but, as I said, it's not included in the index.
5. I think we're looking for another James - I'll have a look later ;)
Gadget
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Blimey LMAO so I guess I could be an imbecile. ;D
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I think we will have to review the evidence ;D
First - where did your informant say that he'd died? It could be that we'll have to put a wider date of birth/death in and some wild cards.
Gadget
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Hi Lisa
Henrietta Matthew Milne was born in Dennistoun, Glasgow. It gives James as a railway carriage fitter. How did you decide that he died in Angus?
Gadget
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Hi Gadget,
This is what I was told: Henrietta's father is James Milne. James & Jane never married. James died Jan 2 1898, the cause was hard to read but it looked like heart aneurism to her. James was a railway worker. Jane was the informant or person making the return.
Since she looked it up for me in Dundee & this is where the family did eventually live, I assumed this all took place in or around Dundee. Gramma always said she was born in Dundee, but then again she said a few things that weren't exactly truthful.
Would Gramma be registered under both Milne & Matthew since her parents weren't married?
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I got her under Hen Mat*hew* but the cert says Henrietta Matthew Milne and he acknowledged parentage as his name is listed. But she was born Glasgow - do you have the cert, if not PM me :)
I'll check around Dundee for a death.
Gadget
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By the way Thanks Gadget!!
Lisa
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Ok that makes sense to me. She found her under Matthew. I had her looking for Henrietta Briggs daughter of Alexander Mitchell Briggs & the widow Jane Murray maiden surname Matthew.
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This Milne death is getting to be tricky - a great pity she didn't say where he died :-\
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Yes it is tricky. I've been looking myself too. I entered Jane's name into the "other surnames" & didn't get a hit. Was hoping to find him like that.
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She told you that he was 35, did she - maybe try the censuses and births :-\
It's getting worse - first one I got on the 1891 was a prisoner :o
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Think I might have found him on the 1891 - steam engine fitter :
20 Mansfield St, Govan
646/3 ED 30 Page 35
Samuel Winning, hd, 49, Ag Lab. b. Ireland
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James Milne, lodger, 26, steam engine fitter, b. Bervie, Kincardineshire
Gadget :)
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That makes the imbecile look better ;)
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IGI has a promising one:
James Milne born 2 August 1864, Bervie, Kincardineshire. Parents - William Milne and Emily Mollison.
Gadget :)
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That one is still alive on the 1901 and married to Mary - oldest child is 5 :-\
Anderston 644/10 ED 48 Page 60
Now the plot thickens ::)
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Lisa :)
I'm trying to narrow down some dates - can you tell me when Jane married Alexander Briggs, please? At the moment, i can't see a marriage on SP.
Gadget
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On the 1901, they are at:
125 Kidson Street, Govan
644/11 ED 27
Alexander Briggs, 30, brick labourer, b. Dundee
Jane, 30, b. Aberdeen
Minnie, 6, b. Dundee
Henrietta, 4, b. Dundee
:-\
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Good morning Gadget,
I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to say that we won't find a marriage for Alexander & Jane.
Alexander & son Mack emigrated 1st to Canada. I guess when they found a place to live or whatever, Jane & the rest of them came over. This is 1922-23. I've been told that Alexander & Jane had to prove they were married, maybe because they emigrated at different times? Anyways we were told they wrote to Scotland & Scotland had "lost" their marriage register.
Personally I don't think they married, I think they were just embarrassed to tell their adult children they never married.
There's a few "skeletons" in my families closet.
Lisa
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Well, I've checked over a long period and can't find one. It could have been a common law marriage - quite legal in Scots law until (?) 1939-40.
I'm thinking that James must have died in the Glasgow area, given their wherabouts in 1897 and 1901but can I find a death :(
Gadget
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I'm wondering if James & Jane aren't related, cousins maybe. Jane's mother is Williamina Milne. I'm also wondering if his name isn't "some name" James Milne. Were Scots in the habit of calling persons by their middle names instead of their first names? I know my Mom's family (English) were in the habit of that. Made for an interesting search!
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It might have been his 'known as' name. it was quite common for illegitimate children to be known as their father's surname.
That makes it even more tricky :-\
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Finished my cup of coffee & I think I had a "brainwave". Aunt Rena was born at Methilhill Weymyss Fife 1906. I searched Fife for James Milne dying in 1898, there is 1.
Do you think its possible?
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It's possible - but why would Jane be the informant - unless they were over there and she met up with Alexander and went back to Glasgow. - it's only 6 units, you could give it a go.
I'm not risking any more - I might end up with something like the last one ::)
Gadget :)
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LOL I don't blame you.
It's just a thought I had that he could of died in Fife. I don't know alot about railway workers yet, but I'm assuming they would work on a line that went from point A to point B, so they would be traveling a fair amount, but maybe not a great distance.
Maybe his parents were deceased & Jane being his next of kin was called to fill out the paperwork?
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The birth cert says a railway carriage fitter which suggests to me that he was building coaches rather than driving them - maybe a joiner or welder :-\
Gadget
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Ohhhhhhh I see, so he most likely stayed in one place, not going on the actual train. That might help me.
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Lisa :D :D :D
I've been trying to find the Minnie, aged 6 on the 1901 with Jane and Alexander Briggs and guess what I've found:
Coatbridge, Lanarkshire
Wilhelmina Matthew Milne (illegitimate) , 5 January 1895, 44 Back Row, Rosehall, Coatbridge. Parents - Jane Matthew, <something> in a Jute mill and James Milne, iron works labourer. His address given as 44 Back Row, Rosehall.
I think that this looks like a long term relationship - maybe a bidie-in :)
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That's a big surprise. We all thought Aunt Min was a Murray. Wow! I guess I pretty much know now where the Murray kids end & the Briggs begin, with a couple of Milnes in the middle. Narrows down when George Murray died....or George & Jane split up.
Thanks alot !
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Note this thread of 8th June 2008 where Lisa asks the same question:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,309071.0.html
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hmmmm sorry I thought it was 2 different questions I asked.
1. What was I doing wrong when I used the mothers maiden name on SP & still got 20 some hits. re: Scotlandspeople question
2. Will I get any information other than a name when I use the 1 credit to view the names in question. re: another Scotlandspeople question.
My mistake
Lisa