RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 12 August 08 13:10 BST (UK)
-
Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt and it's SDBadgers turn and she thinks it wont be easy.........but I know you'll all do your best as usual.
Good Luck and Good Hunting.
Barbara
*********************************
Hello and thank you all for whatever assistance you’ll be able to provide. This hunt is very specific, although I don’t think it will be easy.
I’m looking for the birth of Thomas LUFF, 1769-70, place in England unknown.
He is always described as “nurseryman of Egham, Surrey,” but his birth is not in the parish register there. I’ve been told the civil parish of Egham also covered some of Berks, so I’ve looked in several neighboring parishes there, specifically Sunninghill, and have not found his birth anywhere.
The only mention I can find of Thomas LUFF in Egham is when he is noted as reputed father of Lydia, born there to Sarah BROOKS, in 1792.
Thomas married Mary SIMKINS 13 April 1795 at St Martin in the Fields.
Their children were:
John (not yet found)
Mary (not yet found)
Robert (bap. 18 Feb 1800, Sunninghill, Berks; my direct line)
Catherine (bap. 18 April 1802; died 6 May 1802, Sunninghill)
Thomas (bap. 15 May 1803, Sunninghill [died 1850, Berks])
Ann (bap. 25 May 1806, Sunninghill)
William (bap. 12 July 1807, Sunninghill)
Jane (bap. 6 August 180-9, Sunninghill)
Catharine (bap. 7 July 1811, Sunninghill)
I can only assume that John and Mary are the eldest children, as I have not located their births/baptisms. They are mentioned in their father’s 1830 will and daughter Mary is married to Thomas WILLOUGHBY by that time.
(I mentioned the death date of the son Thomas so as not to confuse the two men. Also, son Thomas married Mary SIMKINS, his cousin/mother’s niece. Please do not confuse the two women, either! LOL!)
Thomas LUFF (1769-70) was buried in Sunninghill 27 July 1830. I’ve his will and photos of his grave.
(BTW, there is a marriage record of a Thomas LUFF of Egham, Surrey, to Hannah GODIN of this parish in February 1770 at St George Hanover Square. The LDS did not film this parish. I’ve checked with the parish and they cannot find a birth for a Thomas LUFF there for the period 1750 to 1780. I do not know if these are my Thomas’ parents, but I suspect they might be.)
Without his birth/baptism information, I’m a standstill to take this line back. I appreciate your efforts and thank you for your assistance.
Happy hunting!
-
Gonna beat Toni - bookmarking :)
DebbieG
-
Not far behind you Debbie.....
Welcome Badge... what you been up too, long time no see.. ;D ;D
-
hi badge.didnt expect to see me here did you?i got some early willoughbys.will have alook and see if they are anything to do with you.i also got parkers who i see are ni your line and lambs.are they travellers then?my willoughbys i dont know if they are travellers or not but they are in the right area.happy hunting this week.i will see what i can do.cathayb
-
This is sooooooo hard....
-
ANN2 GOLBY (WILLIAM1) died 1837 in chailey. She married JOHN WILLOUGHBY 02 Oct 1812 in Hurstmanceux, Sussex, son of WILLIAM WILLOUGHBY and ELEANOR CHARLOTTE. He was born 1788 in Buckland, Surrey.
Notes for ANN GOLBY:
Notes for JOHN WILLOUGHBY:
Willoughby Notes
1881 census a Tilly Willouby neice age 17 born London Old Kent Road is with Geo Irvin Hawker 30 London Primrose Hill, wife elizth Irvin 30 Catherham Surrey and Maria Irvin 9 Mithcam, at Earlswood Road in Vans Reigate RG11 Tilly is with her fathers relations the Irvins whose family became prominent showmen, travelling the London fairs with their gallpers etc. Elizabeth Irvin was the sister of Frances grandfather John Stroud who died in 1909 and was buried in Reigate cemetery. Frances John Smith born Brighton c 1819 according to 1861 census for Hampton Middx may be related my George Smith family, she says he could be another son of George snr and Olive, and he married Priscilla Dean Frances gt gt grandmother.
A john willoughby died 1853 east grinstead
More About JOHN WILLOUGHBY:
Bapt: 20 Jan 1788, Buckland, Surrey
Occupation: Labourer of Buckland, Chimney Sweep 1842
More About JOHN WILLOUGHBY and ANN GOLBY:
Marriage: 02 Oct 1812, Hurstmanceux, Sussex
Witness: Anns parents were witnesses also to her brother Williams marriage same day
Children of ANN GOLBY and JOHN WILLOUGHBY are:
6. i. MARY ANN3 WILLOUGHBY, b. 1819, Chailey, Sussex.
ii. PATIENCE WILLOUGHBY, b. 1814, Brenchley Kent; m. ROBERT DARNELL, 19 Oct 1835, Hever, Sussex; b. 1815, chailey Sussex.
Notes for PATIENCE WILLOUGHBY:
a patience darnell died 1854 maidstone
More About ROBERT DARNELL:
Census: 1851, frances cottages lamberhurst kent, aged 36 with wife patience 35 and niece lovina darnell 15
Occupation: 1851, chimney sweep
More About ROBERT DARNELL and PATIENCE WILLOUGHBY:
Marriage: 19 Oct 1835, Hever, Sussex
iii. THOMAS WILLOUGHBY, b. 1823.
iv. ANN WILLOUGHBY, b. 1817; m. HENRY CORBETT, 08 Jan 1837, Epsom.
More About HENRY CORBETT and ANN WILLOUGHBY:
Marriage: 08 Jan 1837, Epsom
v. ELEANOR WILLOUGHBY, b. 1826.
More About ELEANOR WILLOUGHBY:
Bapt: 25 Jun 1826, Etchingham, Sussex
7. vi. SARAH WILLOUGHBY, b. Abt. 1802. PLEASE CAN YOU TELL ME IF THESE ARE ANY HELP BEFORE I LOOK FURTHER.CATHAY
-
Hi, Cathay, the only WILLOUGHBY is the one who married Mary LUFF and I've no information about him. It would be great to find her birth (1795-1799) or her brother John's (same time frame), but I'm really after their father's birth 1769-70.
I also don't know the other surnames you mentioned???
Thanks very much!
-
Cathay, I now see your confusion! The surnames posted after my "initial post" are NOT my surnames. They must be Tephra's.
My surnames are those on my reply to you. Sorry for the confusion!
-
well i have a few of those names (yours)but they will only be relevant if any of yours are travellers.let me know.cathay
-
??? Just collecting stuff...........
Luff Thomas 1808 Nov 28 Bachelor , Saint Michael, North Chapel, Sussex , married Mary Burdock
LMA marriages bonds and wills
http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/corporation/wills/engine/wills_results.asp?surname=luff&forename=&start_year=&end_year=&exact_match=&page=1
added.. sub entry.
Thomas LUFF (c1775 Hounslow Berks) +(abt 1800) to Sarah Jenner, Burbage Wilts
-
Found this but not sure if its any of your family :)
1841 HO107 / 26 / 16 / 6 / 6
Robert Luff age 35 occ baker
Mary Luff age 30
Thomas Luff age 7 b Berkshire
Robert Luff age 5 b Berkshire
Elizabeth Luff age 2 b Berkshire
Henry Luff age 6 months b Berkshire
Mary Stevens age 14
Address Sunning Dale or Old Windsor Common, Old Windsor
Sue :) :)
-
I seem to remember Badge looking for 'Broom shed' around Windsor... :o ;D
-
Lesanne do you think it should be Egham Berkshire and not Egham Surrey? The census i
just posted is from Sub District Egham. Bit confused here :)
Sue :)
-
Hi Sue, They changed the boundary.
Gonna see if I have a map to post... :D
-
:-X Can't find the Berkshireenclosures....
looks like they've taken it offline.... BRO... well typical....
will have to find a normal map and guess.....
FILE - Conveyance (lease and
release, lease for a year missing) - ref.
ADD MSS/48,757 - date: [29], 30
September 1806
Contents
In consideration of £105, of two
cottages in Chobham, co. Surrey, from
(a) Thomas Luff of Sunninghill, co.
Berks., only son and heir of Thomas
Luff of Egham, co. Surrey, dec'd., to
(b) Henry Slyfield of Chobham,
labourer.
[Formerly catalogued as SAS HB 291]
Gotta go with OH to pictures.... BBL
-
I dont know if you need census details, will post incase :)
1851 Sunninghill HO107 / 1695 / 27 / 12
Mary Luff head age 49 b Windsor occ house proprieter
George Luff son age 15 b Egham, Surrey occ at home
Harry Luff son age 7 b Egham, Surrey, scholar
-
jamajo - That Robert and Mary are my g-g-grands. He is the son of the Thomas LUFF whose birth I'm after in this hunt. Their son Robert is my g-grand.
I know there is a lot of stuff in Sussex archives about my people.
Yes, Thomas LUFF (the one we are after) is mentioned in Berks Enclosures; I have that info.
I THINK a will held in Sussex MIGHT pertain to my Thomas (1769-70). It states something like "Thomas Luff son and only heir of Thomas Luff" and is dated 1806, if I recall. It references the right area of Surrey or Berks (sorry, can't recall off the top of my head). Linda J has that info and is going to check it out for me when she is next in Sussex archives.
Yes, my Thomas (1769-70) had a lot of properties in and around the Surrey-Berks border, including in Chobham, Shrub's Hill, Sunninghill, and the Broomhall Hutt that Les mentioned is actually (now) in Ascot, Sunningdale.
Again, what I'm really after is the blighter's birth.
Thanks, gang, so really appreciate your help!
-
Luff family
"I wish to contact any of the Luff family in st neots who is interested in genealogy. i have traced my family back to john luff (m dorothy bland 1731. their descendents included john (m judith upchurch 1766) john (m elizabeth newman 1794) william (m charlotte cos (1834) joseph (my great grandfather who migrated to Australia 1852 with his sister Ann.
I have traced the family with direct links back to 1731
1731 John Luff m Dorothy Bland
children - Mary, Elizabeth, John, Dorothy, Samuel
1794 John Luff m Elizabeth Newman
children - Robert (married Ann May), Ann, John, Thomas, George, Deborah,
Judith, William, Samuel, Joseph, Charles.
William Luff m Charlotte Cox
Children - Ann, Joseph, Thomas
Two children of Robert Luff & Ann May also migrated to Australia - these were Eliza (m Edwin Lewin) and Robert (m Elizabeth Lewin). They were subsequently joined by Joseph and Ann with the family settling in the Gundagai area.
if anyone is interested please e-mail me
ray luff (calluff@dragnet.com.au) on Thursday, October 5, 2000
-
jamajo, the Mary, George, and Henry of 1851 are, I believe, the wife and children of Thomas LUFF, Jr., my g-g-uncle. These are not the wife and children of the Thomas we're after. Thomas, Jr., died in 1850.
My Thomas LUFF (senior) b. 1769-70 died July 1830. His wife Mary died 1837. Both are buried in Sunninghill, Berks.
Thanks, team!!! xoxoxo for all your efforts.
-
Cathay, as far as I know your last post are not my people. Again, until I can locate the birth of Thomas LUFF (b. 1769-70) I can't link him to any possible sibs.
I'm aware of the St. Neots LUFFs, but do not think they are mine and pretty sure they are not my direct line.
Thanks!
-
The post of Lesanne's referring to Chobham and £105 rent is my line and is held at Sussex, if I recall. This is the entry I referenced before that Linda J is going to research for me.
Thanks, folks ... you are the best hunters and gatherers! ;D
-
oooOO I'm back.. have to re read....
Badge ... Are you getting Sussex and Surrey mixed up....
-
Just checked BVRI...lots of the name is coming up 'Love' if you say it quickly it sounds like 'Luff' possibly something to consider in searches.
Checked NA, there is a will right area 1830, and also another 1850, but expect you have both. Also found this of interest.
Letter from Thos. Luff to Trustees offering to build houses between Bagshott and Egham for £100 each instead of the sum of £160 which had been paid in the past. Tp.BED.13/4 26 Aug. 1815
These documents are held at London Metropolitan Archives
Contents:
Found loose in Tp.Bed.5
Not much help in finding his birth/bapt though :-\
Cas
-
Bit out of my depth here with the geography.
Submitted info on IGI
Thomas Luff
Birth: About 1769 Of Broomhall Hut, Surrey, England
Death: 20 JUL 1830
Spouse: Mary
Have records been checked for these areas? Sorry if bit of an ignoramus. Do these links help :-\
Manor of Broomhall
This manor was partly in Windlesham but mostly in Berkshire. Broomhall Convent was the owner until the dissolution when it passed to St John's College, Cambridge.
http://www.chobham.info/broadways.htm
Egham comprises five manors, of which the Queen is lady paramount; George Simon Harcourt, Esq., is lord of the manor of Ankerwyke Purnish; the Master, Fellows, and Scholars of St. John's College, Cambridge, are lords of the manor of Broomhall; and the Master, Fellows, and Scholars of Corpus Christi College, Oxford, of the manor of Milton.
http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/SRY/Egham/EghamHistory.html
Update: Just checked Genuki - Broomhall is about 3 miles from Sunninghill
http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/places?BRK,SU932688,5,Sunninghill
Cas
-
Hello Cas, Yes you're in the right area.
Next door is Bray Parish.
I've found this family in Bray, now playing.
IGI P018591 1708-1812
Children of John Luff and Mary
Mary 1740
John 1742 *
Martha 1744
Anne 1747
Elizabeth 1749
Thomas 1756
Ann 1758
Francis 1760
Looking at a possible son Thomas for John* :-\
Hmmm..... and a marriage for John *
Added... Ann Luff + Thomas Martin, Egham 16/8/1777 M098923
-
Les, no, I'm not mixing up Surrey and Sussex, just some records pertaining to my folks ended up in the Sussex archives.
I have both the 1830 (father's) and 1850 (son's) wills. I have the letter re building the road houses.
I've checked Bray, Cookham, and several others looking for his birth. That submitted record that has his birth at the right time and at Broomhall Hutt (which he later owned/leased [was a Crown property]) is one I can't get to without going to SLC and proving I have a right to see it!!! So I have no idea who submitted it or how to contact them.
The Thomas, son of John, that Les found in Bray would be great ... if he were born at the right time. Since I have Thomas LUFF's age at death, he would have to be born 1769-70 to be my guy.
Told you it wouldn't be easy.... Thanks for all the help!
-
::) Possible marriage...for the parents of Bray children...
John Luff and Mary Cowdery. Bisham 23 Jan 1736 M014511
Badge, did you notice the LUFF/TURNER marriage in LMA site I posted..... ;D ;D ;D
This one....
Luff Mary 1811 Jan 02 Saint Mary, Chiddingfold, Surrey , married John Turner
-
Les, COWDERY and variants appear all over the area and in some LUFF stuff, but daughter Mary would be too young to marry in 1811; besides she married Thomas WILLOUGHBY.
Now John LUFF m. Mary COWDERY in 1736 in Bisham might be good; where is Bisham in relation to Egham or Sunninghill?
IF, as I believe, Thomas and Mary's eldest children are John and Mary, this might work. But then again it throws out my chance that the 1806 Sussex thing is my Thomas and I'm pretty sure that IS mine. If so, my Thomas was son and only heir of his father Thomas ... aarrrgghhhh.
-
Les, sorry but I misread or misunderstood your earlier post ... if John (1742) had a son Thomas....
Although that would completely mess up the 1806 Sussex will thing ... I'm gonna kick the dog or summat now. (NOT really!!!)
See what I mean????? All this history of the guy EXCEPT his birth!!!
-
:D Hi Badge.
I don't know which Mary you're talking about. This one 'to young to marry 1811'..
I'm looking at the Luff/Cowdery family starting out in Bisham with parents poss marriage 1736. The children giving a poss son/grandson. Very longwinded I know but it could just lead to 'your' Thomas.
Can you post the info from the wills... names etc. If Cowdery is in your information then I can carry on with them.
Bisham is next to Cookham. Just up the road from Maidenhead. Follow the Thames river round Marlow way on a map..
Your 'jump' in and out of Buckinghamshire as well :-\ Mostly the otherside of the river. (Taplow/Eton) (also High Wycombe)
There was a big movement of people from Bisham/Cookham towards Bray/Windsor/Clewer... then on into Middlesex/London.
Hmmmm .. back later.
Lesanne.
-
This is turning out to be a hard one.............but you're all doing a fantastic job. :D :D
Barbara
-
;D Hi Barbara, Just waiting for Badge to get online.
Hopefully we can get some info from the wills. Names and such, that could give us a clue....
That Cowdery looks promising, if there is more references then in could be in the picture..... ::)
Lesanne
-
Hi Lesanne..............Hopefully it will all fall into place once the will info comes on. I think a few more clues would come in handy :D :D
Barbara
-
bookmarking - a bit late! ;D
-
wasn't a Messers Egham on the will of a lady .... in Lesanne hunt?
or was it G....? of egham?
thinking out loud
-
Got to get to work, but COWDERY is not in the will of LUFF 1769-1770. Just that I've seen the name in various things. I'll try to get you the names of people he named to hold things in trust for the children (already named in my initial post).
THANKS SO MUCH!
-
A copy of valuation and appraisement of Thomas Luff, Surveyor and Appraiser, Sunninghill, Berks. ACC/0809/BR/536 21 Dec. 1829
These documents are held at London Metropolitan Archives
Contents:
Of "a quantity of American plants, choice flowering shrubs and ornamental plants, Together with a choice collection of Herbaceous and other plants as purchased and planted by Mr. Hill on the Lawns and Pleasure Grounds of the Gardens at the Bush Inn, Staines".
Valued at £12.19.0.
-
This is interesting....there is a Tyrells buildings or was in Maidenhead.
Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Pleadings before 1714, Whittington C ...Thomas Luffe and Gabriel Luffe v John Tirrall: money matters, Middlesex. Bill and answer . Thomas Luffe and Gabriel Luffe v John Tirrall: money matters, Middlesex. Bill and answer Court of Chancery: Six Clerks Office: Pleadings before 1714, Whittington Date: 1671.
Source: The Catalogue of The National Archives
-
Does this tie up with your other Sussex stuff?
Mortgage by lease for £30 for 1000 years Par/159/25/25 October 1753
These documents are held at West Sussex Record Office
Contents:
(a) Edward Martin, the elder of Rogate, tailor and Edward Martin the younger of Rogate, tailor and chapman; (b) William Wilkins of Rogate, gentleman.
Messuage, two garden plots, comprising 12 rods, in occupance of Edward Martin, the elder and Thomas Luff.
Witnesses: Henry Neall, Thomas Peace
-
:o Luff's in Berks.. from 1400's
Grant of lands and tenements in Wood Street, Reading, also adjoining Battle Lane [probably property conveyed in R/AT1/118] R/AT1/120 1431
These documents are held at Berkshire Record Office
1 doc
Fragment of a tag for a seal; [Damp damaged: writing very faded]
Contents:
Reading, 20 December, 10 Henry VI
Grant by William Baron' of Reading, esquire, to Richard Pake of Reading, mason, and his wife Agnes, of the lands and tenements on the west side of Wood Street, Reading, between the barn of Reading Abbey which Thomas Luff now holds on the north side, and the tenement of Reading Abbey that Nicholas Garard holds on the south side, and which reach from Wood Street on the east to Battle Lane [Bataillane] on the west; all of which lands and tenements William Baroun lately received by feoffment from Richard and Agnes Pak
Witnesses: John Kyrkeby, mayor of Reading, Nicholas Barbor and Richard Farle, bailiffs of Reading, Robert Morys, John Vayr, William Kyng, John Bannebury and many others
20 December 1431Endorsed: Carta Will[elm]i Baron Rich[ard]o Pake et ux' de Ten[emen]to in Wodstreet Reding
10° Hen.6'
[Notary's mark]
-
wasn't a Messers Egham on the will of a lady .... in Lesanne hunt?
or was it G....? of egham?
thinking out loud
i think now that it was Gibson fo Egham so nothing to do with Luff then ;D
hmmm
-
Hi Toni, As you can see, just browsing the NA. Anything really, clutching at straws.
I still have an inckling to that Bisham family... I wonder if there is an earlier family that they are related to, possibly further towards Reading.
Errr... that would be Twyford, Sonning, Wargrave way... Must find an olde mappe...
-
okay a few points
a couple were supposedly usually married in the brides home parish and supposedly returned there to have the first born child bp. so where does Thomas mother come from? do you know his mother? did you say you have his fathers will ?
between 1783 & 1794 there was a Stamp Duty on bp. marriages and bur. which inevitably led to non-bp. secret marriages and dead people being recorded as paupers to avoid payment - if they were recorded as paupers then they would have a letter P next to their entry in the bur. register.
although bp. was suppsoed to be on the first Sunday after the birth,or the next Sunday thereafter this rarely happened weeks or months even years first might elapse, i think though you did have to be bp. to be married in a C of E church in which case he might have been bp. shortly before his marriage - not sure if this is likely.
have you looked at non-conformist records?
explore the possibility tha the child was born either during the mothers previous marriage or was base born so the recorded surname would be different
finally - for now - consult a local map and examine the PR's of churches within walking distance fromt he abode, circa 14 mile radius - the ripple effect -
-
;D A place like LUFFENHAM... could this be the origins of LUFF's.... ;D
[no title] DG11/866 9 Anne, 1710 April 8
These documents are held at Leicestershire, Leicester and Rutland Record Office
2 seals, red wax
Contents:
Lease: Wellesbourne Sill of North Luffenham, co. Rutland, esq., to Edward Lane of Hanslop, co. Buckingham, esq., and James Manners of Pisbrooke, co. Rutland: a capital messuage with appurtenances in NORTH LUFFENHAM in the occupation of the said Wellesbourne Sill, 7 cottages in NORTH LUFFENHAM in the several tenures of Henry Gibson, Thomas Luffe, Thomas Cole, John Swann, John Cole, Edward Sisson and Joseph Cooper and all pieces or parcels of arable land, ley, meadow, pasture and inclosed ground lying in NORTH LUFFENHAM and appertaining to the said capital messuage and the said 7 cottages, and all other lands in NORTH LUFFENHAM belonging to the said Wellesbourne Sill and Dorothy his wife, except the cottage lately in the tenure of Edward Rawlins: to hold the same for three months for the purpose of effecting a release of the same.
-
and a few more things to consider ,
register of voters, although this will not help locate Thomas and his elder brotehrs birth this would give a clue as to when they became 21 and thus old enough to vote, of course they would not be mentioned unless thy passed the 'qualifications' usually liked to ownership of land, male, aged 21+, or of property assessed at 310 a year and upwards.
do you know in which trade Thomas Luff applied himself?
have you searched the trade directories, again this wil not help locate his birth but you will help find where he was living at certain times.
have you tried the gale site for local newspapers?
all other things i can suggest are too late for Thomas, Tithe Maps (1836), School Attendance Records (1862onwards), Smallpox vaccinations (1853-1948) and the like.
-
i came across this whch was posted ona different site by yourself, i presume
Thomas LUFF b. 1769 in Broomhall Hutt.
do you still think this could be your Thomas? and Lesanne which parish would cover this area?
-
Luff still in Egham today it would seem ;D :o
~~~~~~~~~
The National Archives | Access to ArchivesSurrey, from (a) Thomas Luff of Sunninghill, co. Berks., only son and heir of Thomas Luff of Egham, co. Surrey, dec'd., to (b) Henry Slyfield of Chobham, ...
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=182-burtenshaw&cid=-1&Gsm=2008-06-18
The National Archives | Access to ArchivesLuff to Trustees offering to build houses between Bagshott and Egham for £100 each ... Letter from Thomas Batchelor, Eton College, to R. Horne (Clerk to ...
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/records.aspx?cat=074-tp&cid=-1&Gsm=2008-06-18
-
Hi Toni,
That Broomhall Hutt, I found on the Berkshire enclosure site from Berks Record Office. This seems to be offline now... Typical when we need it....
I should think, err Winkfield Parish... possibly nudging the Windsor Forest area. This itself being in the rather large enormous grounds of the castle.
-
;D oooOOOooo when did I get to be a Marquessateii.... so where's me Tiarrare!! 8)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm off to look at that Bisham family... See what comes about. :P :P
-
have you seen these Berks PR's?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,476.0.html
~~~~~~
Les, i didn't notice when you became one of us! ;D, it must have been when i was away
* * * * *
-
Les, I'm aware of all the NA listings and have obtained what I can.
toni, didn't know about the online PRs and will check Cookham one more time (had the film at the FHC).
Don't know Thomas' parents (since I haven't located his birth) BUT I think his mother might be Hannah, from something I was sent by Egham Museum Trust. There was a newsletter published in the '90s and several issues had mentioned LUFF and one noted that Hannah LUFF had been proprietor of the [Broomhall Hutt] since the 1770s. This is why I think the Thomas and Hannah who married in 1770 might be my guy's parents. I've not looked into her because it could be a wild goose chase.
Need to get back to work. Will check back later. Thanks so very much!!!!
-
Hi badge,
was the death date from his headstone?
did it have birth date as well?
-
Just had to say WELL DONE Lesanne, all those posts, keep up the good work ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sue :) :) :)
-
Was it a photo I took?
Why didn't he name a child Hannah if she was his mother?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aw fanx Sue... ;D
-
Les, no just his name, wife Mary's, and daughter Catherine's (the one who died as an infant) and "1830 aged 60 years" were on the stone. gothitjulie took a series of photos for me.
First daughter would be named after mother's mother ... but the third born should be named after the mother ... maybe she didn't like her name. I don't think I've come across any Hannahs in this line.
Then again, perhaps the Hutt was owned/leased by a relative, but not his mother (BTW, I've checked with the Crown and they really have no records until he gave up the lease).
I just find it too coincidental that a Thomas LUFF of Egham and a Hannah GODIN married in February 1770, AND a Hannah LUFF ends up with the Hutt in the 1770s, THEN my guy has it, for them not to be his parents.
Not sure I've looked in Winkfield ... might have to see if there is a film for the place.
Hair-pulling time!
Thanks, team!
-
Checked out those online PRs, toni; thanks! No joy, though >:(
-
Les, sorry it took me so long to reply to the post about the Reading LUFFs ... have no idea as is 1400s and haven't taken my guy back at all.
The Slough LUFFs (should anyone find them) belong to a mayor of Windsor by the name of Thomas LUFF; not my guy.
I've checked and there is a film of Winkfield ... I've had trouble discerning what parish would cover the Hutt at that time, so really appreciate that info, Les.
toni*, Thomas LUFF was a nurseryman ... all the stuff about herbaceous plants and all refers to him. Also anything about the brick kiln and works is him (or, later, his son Thomas).
This family seemed to follow the naming convention so, if first son is John, then my Thomas (1769-70) would have father John. Next son is my gg-grand, Robert, so Thomas' wife's father would be Robert ... third son WAS Thomas so that follows. Etc., ad nauseum ... except there is no Hannah (for the mother, if Thomas and Hannah of 1770 marriage are the parents of Thomas (1769-70).
Think I'll go drink now....
-
:D Put together this little map for my Turner/Norris families.
Just waiting for a Luff/Turner.... ;D ;D
-
Hey Lesanne, congrats on the promotion :D :D It's all the hard work you're doing on the Scavenger Hunts.........well done :) :) :)
Barbara
-
;D ;D fanx Barbara, Tiararie, burpday, promotion it all happens at once..... 8)
-
Oooh Burpday as well............Happy Burpday to you.......... ;D ;D
-
I've got soooo many notes here, I thought, it's about time I posted ;D
William Luffe s/o John Luffe 11/10/1691 Frensham
Sarah Luffe d/o Thomas Luffe 13 March 1691 Frensham
Possible marriage.. Thomas Luffe + Alice Brooks 21/6/1687 Frensham.
John Luffe + Mary Funchin 5/5/1656 Frensham.
Frensham
M069743/4
C069742/3
-
Les, thanks for the map ... yup, that's where all my LUFFs are ... until at least g-grands move to Feltham, Middx. Will try to get a chance to look at T LUFF's will to determine who he left as Trustees, but not sure how that's going to help locate his birth....
Work is a bear today.
-
As near as I can tell from various transcriptions of the will (thanks to Linda J, indiapaleale, and JD), the names mentioned in it are:
James WALTER (leasing property from LUFF)
William Baldwin PARFATT (had the Hutt [called Chequers at the time] at the time of the will)
Thomas BURROWS (in possession of LUFF Chobham property)
Samuel MUMFORD
Charles MASLIN
James WRIGLEY (in possession of Old Windsor property)
James OTTAWAY (trustee for son Robert LUFF)
William WELLBELOVE(D) (occupying Broomhall property [NOT the Hutt])
Joseph SHORTER (ditto)
Samuel PERKINS (trustee for daughter Mary WILLOUGHBY)
James Arkint TAYLOR and Catherine KIDD (trustees of Sunninghill property for daughter Ann KNOTT)
William PORTLES, shoemaker (trustee for daughter Jane LUFF)
Charles GARDENER (trustee for daughter Catherine LUFF)
Thomas COOK
Then MUMFORD, MASLIN, son Thomas LUFF, and Mary LUFF (Thomas Sr's wife) are named executors and executrix.
The will was witnessed by Jno MEARS, solicitor of Bagshott
Thos. W MARELIN
Sevan DOWN
-
Les! Dang it! Did I miss your birthday???? I'm so sorry! Happy belated birthday, hun, and thanks for your help.
You probably hate looking for T LUFF as much as I'm beginning to. How can someone be so far-reaching and prosperous and we can't find his birth????
-
Hello Badge,
Thanks for the wishes. I really do appreciate all the 'Cyber' presi's. My 2nd family here... xx
Mr T Luff..... Argh....
Are any of those mentioned.. Kinsmen, cousin's, neighbours, good friends etc. The relationship does help.
I tagged onto Frensham because of the BROOKS name. Frensham is just down the road.... I spent many happy times there in the ponds...
http://www.ukattraction.com/south-east-england/frensham-great-pond.htm
It is just possible you might have to bypass him and look for the next generation. (as is my Robert Norris still after 43 yrs)
Searching out every bit of info around his time and place, then the jigsaw will fit except his piece is missing...... ::)
Going back to Frensham...
I've gone through all 4 IGI lists matching birth's and marriages..
Typical there seems to be either
1. no record for early 1700's or
2. No luff's in the area to record.
So I'm off round the immediate area. London could draw him in and the LMA might be the next place..... :-\ I know you can't get there, if they/you can find a refence to a possible Grandfather/father Luff..... It would be a start.
Have you worked out the Sussex family of Luff's ? Just possible one of theirs crossed into Surrey/Berks.
I'll see if any of the names fit into anything in my notes. Mostly Surrey/Berks boundry and bit further West.
Lesanne.
-
::) James Arkint TAYLOR and Catherine KIDD (trustees of Sunninghill property for daughter Ann KNOTT)
Taylor..
Bartholemew + Jane TAYLOR 28/3/1706 St Georges, Windsor. M035801
poss son, John Bapt 10/8/1713 Chobham C055362
-
Les, I've all the family (my directs, at least) from him on through to me. It's just his birth (and the other g-g-g-grandad, but that's another story) that has me stalled.
As far as I know, none of those folks mentioned in the will are relatives.
BROOKS figures in ONLY as his illegit child and I've traced her through at least three generations of her descendants. Don't worry about BROOKS.
I've no idea of any relationship of the Sussex or Hants LUFFs ... again, without his birth info I can form no relationships.
Hope you had a great birthday!
Thanks for helping me with this one ... I knew it would be virtually impossible as I've tried everything I can think of for three years. Being in California has not helped; I thought maybe the Brits would have some tricks up their sleeves.
-
::) Well Badge, I think the only way your gonna find him, is go laterally..... 8) Skip sideways and back. Have you got any possible siblings? Doesn't look like it. :-\
I know I did. May I just tell you my story..... Fanx ;D ;D
About Robert's father... Andrew, Andrew's brother George, George's wife Rose Ann, Rose Ann's son from prevoius marriage Edmond, Edmond was witness on Andrew's marriage. Andddd, it was transcribed with a pp instead of fs... Edmond then turned up in other stuff that brought the jigsaw together. I now have got back 4 further generations.
Robert is still lacking birth cert ::)
We have to admit defeat here as I've been round and round Surrey/Berks/Southwark etc unless we know more details, we don't know it when we find it.
So sorry I couldn't help.
Lesanne.
-
Les, the witnesses to the 1795 marriage were relatives of hers, two CHARLWOODs.
I was hoping someone would be able to turn up something ... I knew it was gonna be a longshot.
I do like your idea of looking in Winkfield....
Hope to see you in chat soon!
-
I e-mailed St Mary's in Winkfield ... here's hoping!
-
fingers crossed here!
why not follow the possible parents you have Hannah & er was it Thomas, they might throw up a few clues?
-
toni, all I have on them is the marriage with reference to him being from Egham. There are no children born there and no Thomas born where they married.
The Egham Museum Trust sent me what they had, which is how I found out about Hannah LUFF having the Hutt in the 1770s. The Trust asked me to send them what I might find out....
This seems to be a dead end ... sorry to waste your time, friends.
-
Can you make out the first names of Charlwoods? Are they male and female names?
;) Lesanne.
-
Hi everyone
Back from the beach and ready to search ... ;D
need to reread , but have been looking for Mary Luff= Thomas Willoughby ...Badge do you have anything on them ??
I have found this on NA and thought I would post just in case ...
Online Document PROB 11/1766 Will of Thomas Willoughby Butcher Egham , Surrey . Will of Thomas Willoughby Butcher Egham , Surrey Date: 1830.
i know it doesn't help with finding Thomas Luff, but I was trying to find Mary Luff to ascertain her birth.
will keep looking
deb :)
-
Posted something that Lesanne had already posted on page 1
eekkk .....hiding under the table :-[ :-[
deb
-
Hi Badge
Wonder if this is sarah Brooks m/o Lydia Luff Brooks
from NA
Online Document PROB 11/1815Will of Sarah Brooks Spinster Egham , Surrey . Will of Sarah Brooks Spinster Egham , Surrey Date: 1833.
-
is this THE Broomhall Hutt
-
Hi Toni
Yep that's it! In 1841 their are Luffs living next to the Broomhall Hut , they are not the innkeepers tho'
:-\
deb
-
Kirdford West Sussex circa 30 miles from Sunninghill but between 1836 & 1880's there wass a Richard and Hannah Luff there, unfortunaltey Hannah wasn't a Luff by birth she was formerly Remnant
it is a direct line Sunninghill to Kirdford
-
any relation?
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/denis.wicking/Conington.PDF
-
this is a strange one from IGI
Mary SIMPKINS LUFF d/o John Simpkins and Mrs John Simpkins
born circa 1802 Sunninghill
died 03 JUN 1860
submitted , Of course !!!! ::)
why is she not called Mary SIMPKINS??
there is also a child, William Luff or Rackley christened 13 MAR 1803 Sunninghill, Berkshire, (extracted) s/o William Luff and Ann Rackley (extracted) ...I wonder if William Luff is the brother of THOMAS LUFF b 1769/70?
-
well William Luff would indicated that his mother was a Rackley and father a Luff who were not married at the time of his birth, but Mary Sipkins Luff is strange, and if her surname was Luff Simpkins i would understand, unless of course she was daughter of Mary froma previous marrige or adopted by the Simpkins or even Luffs?
-
Hi, everyone! Welcome back, deb!
deb, hahahahaha, I just paid for the WILLOUGHBY will ... again! AARGGHHH. Would think that might be the father. Will send you the doc ... looks like wife's name might be Ann. Means I need to check the Egham PRs again.
He names a son John and John SMITH, "brother of my wife" as trustees for the "children," but doesn't name any but John. Witnesses were L.C. HOLLIS, Surveyor; George FURNWELL, surgeon; and Moses DUCK, shopkeeper, all of Egham.
Yes, Thomas LUFF (1769-70) gave up proprietorship of the Hutt (Chequers) in about 1818, if I recall correctly, although he still owned/leased it, I THINK, at the time of his death because he refers to it and at least one of his grandchildren was born there.
The witnesses to Thomas and Mary (SIMKINS) LUFF's 1795 marriage are Jn. CHARLWOOD and Sarah CHARLWOOD.
Again, the fact that the civil parish of Egham covered parts of Berks might mean he refers to himself as of Egham and we all assume Surrey. Again, I've looked in several Berks parishes and have an enquiry in to Winkfield to determine if that was the CoE parish that covered the Broomhall Hutt.
I appreciate all your efforts, really! Thanks so much!
P.S. The other wills with the WILLOUGHBY doc are:
Mary Ann WRIGHT
Hannah WAUGH
James WEST, Esq
Other wills with LUFF doc are:
Thos. SETT (?)
Elizabeth SENN
Edward LANGLEY
-
Okay, let's clear up Mary SIMKINS LUFF (1802)....
She is the niece of Mary SIMKINS LUFF, Sr. Mary (Sr) and John (father of Mary [1802]) are sibs.
Thomas (1769) and Mary ( 1771) had a son Thomas who married his cousin Mary SIMKINS, so she, too, is Mary SIMKINS LUFF.
(Don't you just love these people???)
Yes, toni, Denis and I are related and have corresponded; thanks!
-
Hi Badge and Toni
here is another strange submitted entry...
Mary LUFF Willonably (maybe mistranscribed)
birth: About 1791 Egham, Surrey
death About 1849
d/o Thomas and Mary Luff
so this appears to be Mary Luff who married Thomas Willoughby...gives her birth as circa 1791 which is before Lydia was born .... Obviously this is a submitted entry but someone must have seen her death cert or headstone!
just seen other posts , will read
deb
PS just a thought Mary Simpkins Luff must be Mary Simpkins who married one of Badger's Luffs...arrghhhh can't remember which one
-
FILE - Grant of lands and tenements in Wood Street, Reading, also adjoining Battle Lane [probably property conveyed in R/AT1/118] - ref. R/AT1/120 - date: 1431
[from Scope and Content] Grant by William Baron' of Reading, esquire, to Richard Pake of Reading, mason, and his wife Agnes, of the lands and tenements on the west side of Wood Street, Reading, between the barn of Reading Abbey which Thomas Luff now holds on the north side, and the tenement of Reading Abbey that Nicholas Garard holds on the south side, and which reach from Wood Street on the east to Battle Lane [Bataillane] on the west; all of which lands and tenements William Baroun lately received by feoffment from Richard and Agnes Pak
Reading Borough records
-
this obviously relates to Thomas Luff Nurseryman
Deeds, etc. of Dale Lodge and other lands in Sunningdale, formerly the property of John H. St.Q.Astell, Esq., and sold by him about 1938.
FILE - 2 a. 3 r. 22 p. of inclosed waste and 3 a. 0 r. 6 p. of nursery ground, also messuage and land at Coworth (see D/EX 116/1) - ref. D/EX 116/2 - date: 1817-1831
[from Scope and Content] Includes conveyance (1812) by Inclosure Commissioner. Luff and Goodchild families
-
wonder if this is your Lydia , Badge ;
LYDIA LUFF WEBB
born circa 1793
died Mar 1882 West Ham
nice old age :)
-
just a thought when did Thomas start calling himself Nurseryman of Egham?
i have James Punnett Carpenter of Heathfield (1796 & before) but actually he was born in Hooe in 1714
so in fact he may not be of Egham at all, i know Heathfield and Hooe are not all that far apart but i was trying to show that in fact Thomas could be from anywhere.
ever helpful Toni
-
Hi Badge and Toni
here is another strange submitted entry...
Mary LUFF Willonably (maybe mistranscribed)
birth: About 1791 Egham, Surrey
death About 1849
d/o Thomas and Mary Luff
so this appears to be Mary Luff who married Thomas Willoughby...gives her birth as circa 1791 which is before Lydia was born .... Obviously this is a submitted entry but someone must have seen her death cert or headstone!
deb
erm
Q1 1851
WILLOUGHBY Mary Hungerford 6 151
or
Q1 1848
Luff Mary Oxford 16 83
nothing for Mary Luff Willoughby 1847-1852
-
Okay, just reviewed John SIMKINS will (1818). He names wife Sarah and several children, one of whom is Mary (1802).
Witnesses were Thomas WILLOUGHBY (but which one?); William M. KIDD (he would be the one who widowed Catherine in LUFF's will); and Joseph EASLEY.
-
Yes, that is Mary (LUFF) WILLOUGHBY, daughter of Thomas (1769) and Mary (SIMKINS) (1771) in that misspelled IGI entry, deb.
She was not born in 1791 and was not born in Egham.
Previous researchers of this line all seem to have picked up on previous errors. If I recall correctly, a lot of this was submitted eons ago. I've corresponded with those researchers I've been able to locate ... or at least the ones who replied to me.
There are two likely Mary and Thomas WILLOUGHBYs in later censuses ... have yet to sort them out.
Yes, Sarah BROOKS never married and went on to do quite well for herself. As did daughter Lydia. She married James WEBB of Stepney and they settled in West Ham, Essex.
One thing about the LUFFs: they mostly lived to ripe old ages!
-
Badger
Is Thomas' dad John or Thomas?
according to the will dad is Thomas but somewhere on this thread you were talking about naming patterns and his dad was John. Do I need to have an early drink or what? ;D ;D
also where did you find the marriage of Thomas Luff to Hannah Godin, 1770?
-
deb, I was aware of a William LUFF having a child out of wedlock, but it's too early to be my g-g-gruncle. Thinking it might be a family trait :D and he is a brother to Thomas (1769).
toni, thanks for the tip on Kirdford.
Well, the first and only time I find Thomas LUFF in any of the PRs or BT for Egham is as reputed father of Lydia, and we know he wasn't born there ... so I'm leaning toward him being in that area and was known as "nurseryman of Egham, Surrey" because that's where Egham is.
toni, Richard doesn't occur in my line, that I know of. Again, I wish I could find Thomas' birth so I could link him to siblings, but....
-
Badger
Is Thomas' dad John or Thomas?
according to the will dad is Thomas but somewhere on this thread you were talking about naming patterns and his dad was John. Do I need to have an early drink or what? ;D ;D
also where did you find the marriage of Thomas Luff to Hannah Godin, 1770?
deb, I meant if eldest son was John (as is the case) then it would be likely his father would be John because they seemed to stick to the naming convention of the time.
On the other hand, the second son was Robert and that was NOT Mary's father's name ... so let's forget the naming convention.
HOWEVER, the Thomas LUFF-Hannah GODIN marriage of February 1770 noting Thomas is "of Egham, County Surrey" seems too coincidental to me to not be his parents. Also that Hannah LUFF had the Hutt/Chequers since the 1770s ... and the will in Sussex about "Thomas LUFF son and only heir of Thomas LUFF" ...
The LUFF-GODIN marriage appeared in a Google Books find. The marriages for the parish were indexed in a book. I contacted the parish and there is no such index for baptisms but a very kind soul looked at the PR for me and there is no Thomas LUFF born there 1750 to 1780.
Feel free to drink.... Lord knows T LUFF has caused me to bend my elbow a few times!
-
errrr how far away is Kent from Surrey and Berks?
deb the silly one ;D :P
-
Egham, Surrey, is in the northwesterly part of Surrey at the Berkshire border. Sunninghill/dale are right there on the Berks side.
Kent is on the eastern border of Surrey, but Kent doesn't figure into LUFF that I know of.
Why??
-
OKAY!!!!!!
deb found something very interesting yesterday ... might go nowhere, but we have to try.
William LOVE, b/c 1768 in Wateringbury, Kent, to Thomas and Lydia LOVE.
Thomas LOVE, b/c January 1770 in Wateringbury, Kent, to Thomas and Lydia LOVE.
These are extracted records.
NOW, my Thomas (1769-70) has an illegitimate daughter (named Lydia) in 1792, Egham, Surrey. Lydia's mother is Sarah, as is HER mother, so no Lydia on the maternal side.
Apprently, deb also found William LOVE also having an illegit child in Egham, Surrey ... although I've not seen this record. (Back to the Egham PR.)
Does anyone have access to Wateringbury records? At the very least I find this worth pursuing for a while.
Thanks for the possible new lease on life, deb!
-
RATS!!!!
I now think Wateringbury in out of contention.
A cursory check of IGI has William marrying Elizabeth EMERY 29 Jun 1791. They have:
Thomas, 14 Aug 1791
William, 22 Dec 1792
John, 25 Nov 1798
Robert, 24 May, 1807
Cursory check of IGI has a Thomas marrying Sarah SWANN 09 Nov 1817. A little late, maybe, to be the Thomas (1770) and early to be Thomas (1791).
Oh, well....
-
Hi Badge
;D ;D ;D
I cannot find a marriage of Thomas Luff to a Lydia :( :(
deb
just seen your post ...arghhhh back to the drawing board
-
i wonder if your Thomas was illigitamate
-
Hi
Just seen that the Broomhall Hut used to be called HERTLEY ....
Surrey Archaeological Collections - G**gle Books Result
by Surrey Archaeological Society - 1858 - Surrey (England)
84 The Minchin's Rood, or Nun's Rood, a cross which probably stood on the hill called " Mincing Ride," near Broomhall Hut, on Chobham Heath, between an old ...
Bounds to Hertley (Broomhall Hut?). This differs from the 19th C boundary which turned NE to the entrance to Windsor Forest
not that this helps at all ::) :-\ ;D
-
between 1783 & 1794 there was a Stamp Duty on bp. marriages and bur. which inevitably led to non-bp. secret marriages and dead people being recorded as paupers to avoid payment - if they were recorded as paupers then they would have a letter P next to their entry in the bur. register.
-
:D Hi Deb and Toni,
Looking at the witness of John and Sarah Charlwood to see if they are connected.
Only 6 marriages for John Charlwood and a Sarah (all in Surrey!!)
But, only 1 in 1778 to Sarah Mason in Richmond, surrey....the rest are way before 1722 or after 1795... :-\
I did send Badge a map with Broomhall Hut on it. I'm pretty sure it was in Winkfield.
I can't seem to get Berkshire enclosures ( images of maps) online anymore....
typical eh!!
http://www.berkshirenclosure.org.uk/
-
Thomas luff has driven me to the Rootfchatte inne where I am having a glafs offe wynne ;D ;D,,,,errr not literally driven me in a carriage or anything but driven me to drink ...arghhh you know what I mean ! ;D
-
okay a few points
a couple were supposedly usually married in the brides home parish and supposedly returned there to have the first born child bp.
although bp. was suppsoed to be on the first Sunday after the birth,or the next Sunday thereafter this rarely happened weeks or months even years first might elapse, i think though you did have to be bp. to be married in a C of E church in which case he might have been bp. shortly before his marriage - not sure if this is likely.
have you looked at non-conformist records?
explore the possibility tha the child was born either during the mothers previous marriage or was base born so the recorded surname would be different
finally - for now - consult a local map and examine the PR's of churches within walking distance fromt he abode, circa 14 mile radius - the ripple effect -
have you followed these up?
-
Toni
You have so much knowledge on all these things .... I am not sure about non-conformist anything.
Another idea ... as we know from the Rootfchatte Inne ;D :P , the writing was completely different in those days ...what if LUFF has been completely mistranscribed as Lufs/Luss/luft etc .... you know the double 's' looks like 'f what about vice versa?
deb ...clearly clutching at straws here :P
-
Yes, with you there. Less... Lifs... Lips even... :-*
Added ....just found this example..... :o
IGI.
Thomas Less 1816 Drayton, Somerset.
s/o Thomas LUFF or LESS & Mrs Honour LUSS
-
;D ;D
well the capital L could be all squiggly and look like a "S" .... Suff/Suft/Suss/ ...eeekkkkkk lets not go there ....
I cannot find him ...Thomas Luff we don't luff you anymore! 8)
-
;D ;D ;D With that... Nitey nite, have luffly dreams....
-
<OWWWW! My eyes! The puns! ;D >
toni, I don't think he was illegit, but one never knows. All I can say is there is no unaccounted for Thomas being baptised in Egham for a couple hundred years.
I know about marrying in the bride's parish ... this was the case with the LUFF-GODIN 1770 marriage where he is noted of Egham and she is OTP.
Thomas LUFF (1769-70) married 1795 in St Martin in the Fields. I know this was often done to avoid the double payment for marrying away from the "mother church" of the diocese. HOWEVER, it also states both he and Mary SIMKINS are OTP.
Now to throw a BIG monkey wrench into it all ... I couldn't even locate the film that covered the marriage. It magically appeared when someone at my FHC was looking for something else entirely. AND when you search the film number, nothing turns up for St Martin in the Fields!!!!
Sooooooooo, I need to look at that film ONE MORE TIME to see if I can find ANYONE's birth there.
I know that Mary SIMKINS was not born there, so I've no idea when she became OTP.
Joining deb at the Inne....
-
i think you had to stay in the parish for 3 weeks in order to have banns read every Sunday at the church prior to the wedding, that was when you were classed as otp, so 21 days then minimum, also if they were marked as sojourner this could mean that they were not of the parish but intend to set there roots there afetr the marriage, in order to be able to marry at the particular church
where is St Martins inthe Fields?
-
Hi Toni
I think St Martin in the Fields was in Westminster, London.
I am looking for a birth of Hannah Godin.... no luck yet! She may have been married prior...who knows :-\
deb
-
i too thought about Luff being Luss but wouldn't it be Lussss?
hmm if they married in St Martins in the Field and were OTP then perhaps Thomas will feature in the voters records there?
(Westminster)
Godin could be Godwin
-
Deb are you working on Mary Prince (Trowbridge) for lydart?
St Martin in the Fields Westminster settlement records 1750-1775 (just the right time) :)
http://www.westminster.gov.uk/libraries/archives/indexes/sett_intro.cfm
-
okay... one of the Luffs was a brickmaker.... clutching at straws here... here is a Godin will from NA :
Online Document PROB 11/1017Will of James Godin Bricklayer Saint Mary Colechurch , City of London . Will of James Godin Bricklayer Saint Mary Colechurch , City of London Date: 1776
deb ...who has run out of ideas :-\ :-\ ::)
PS Toni ... still early here , 7:30am.... ;D am going to work on Lydart's stuff shortly...need more coffee first!
-
the settlement records do indicate a Mr Luff, as well as others, during the righ t time frame unfortuantely it says Mr Luff rather than Thomas Luff whereas the others have their christain names given ::) searched for simkins (and then any name containg Sim) she did not appear. ::)
St Martins in the fields is just a stones throw from Leicester Square
http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/StMartinInTheFields/index.html
http://www.westminster.gov.uk/libraries/archives/blackpresence/02.cfm
http://www.westminster.gov.uk/libraries/archives/indexes/sett_intro.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Martin-in-the-Fields
http://www2.stmartin-in-the-fields.org/page/aboutus/history.html
-
Thanks to all for your dogged assistance. I'll find him yet!
-
hi again
Maybe there is a link to the St Martins in the field area ...Thomas Luff = Mary Simpkins SMITF(St Martin in the field ;D) in 1795 ..I wonder if the ones around the same time could be Thomas' siblings??
I found these on Pallots;
Wm Luff = Martha Langley 1781 St. Martin In The Fields
Nicholas Luff = Elizth Monk 1801 St. Martin In The Fields
Richd Luff = Jamima Barrett 1832 St. Martin In The Fields
Elzth Luff = John Bevan 1837 St. Martin In The Fields
Wm Luff = Mary Roome 1804 St. Martin In The Fields
Robt Luff = Maria Ludlow 1826 St. Martin In The Fields
Ann Luff = Geo Clark 1801 St. Martin In The Fields
Alice Luff = John Elgood 1822 St. Martin In The Fields
Jane Luff = Chas Goldsmith 1834 St. Martin In The Fields
Sarah Luff = Geo Wheeler 1799 St. Martin In The Fields
deb :)
-
okay
re; Alice Luff = John Elgood 1822 St. Martin In The Fields
there is this on IGI:
ALICE SIMPKIN LUFF d/o William LUFF and ANN
b; 27 JUL 1800
chr; 12 OCT 1800 Saint Clement Danes, Westminster
could it be that Thomas Luff had a brother who also married a Simpkin/s girl?? :o
deb
ps ..can't find the marriage yet
-
ooooooooooooooooooooooooo
just looked on the Pallots original re Alice Luff = John Elgood and this is what it says;
Alice Simpkin LUFF = John Garrard Elgood
-
well done Deb, Alice just has to be related.
***********
-
you know there is a Lydia Ann Luff bp. 1797 St Andrews Holborn d/o Dan & Isabella Luff
she had a brother Dan bp. do. 1795
-
Elzth Luff = John Bevan 1837 St. Martin In The Fields
Elizth was a minor and married with permissn of her mopther and also it has furtehr written detail sont eh image Of Stoke Page Bucks i think ?
-
Ann Luff = Geo Clark 1801 St. Martin In The Fields
he was of Chiswick middlesex
-
hi Toni
I wonder if we should also take into account the Westminster marriages, seeing as SMITF is/was in westminster.
I have looked at most of the Pallots images ...no other Luffs with the Simpkin/s middle name. I have also been through IGI again ...just looking at Luffs of london Greater/Surrey and Berks .... no luck.
I am sure Alice Simpkins Luff and her dad William must be related in 'some' way .... will delve further.
Perhaps Badger's Thomas Luff hails from there ... keeping fingers crossed that we can find a connection somewhere.
I wonder if John and Mary , elder children of Thomas Luff and Mary Simpkins were born in the Westminster area ...or perhaps they are children of Thomas and a different wife :-\
deb
-
WOW!
Thanks so much, deb and toni*!!! I really appreciate your thoroughness.
toni, how are you finding these details????
I REALLY like all the St Martin in the Fields entries, deb ... thanks so very much!
As Deb knows, there are two quite likely Mary WILLOUGHBYs in the censuses with husband Thomas. The one I'm leaning toward states in the 1851 census she is 53 and was born in Highgate, Middx. Another film I need to get....
In that census husband Thomas is 51 and born Hampstead. They are residing in Hampstead with son William, 24, born Hampstead.
Perhaps Thomas (1769-70) is from Highgate ... off to Hugh Wallis one more time!
Thanks so very much to everyone who helped me with the Hunt!
-
Guess what I just re-found. Completely forgot about it as the person didn't reply to my follow-up.
From Genealogy.com GenForum:
Sarum Marriage Licence Bonds
Adminstration WIL Source MLA
Date: 1824 Aug 21st.
Groom: Thomas WILLOUGHBY residing at Staines, MDX bach. Bride: Mary LUFF residing at Old Windsor, BRK spin.
To be married at Old Windsor.
This would certainly be a workable time frame for her to marry. AND I think I have the Old Windsor film at FHC.
-
Thanks again, everyone, for all the help and the shared frustration. Once again, I've learned a lot from all of you.
Thank you!!!!!!
-
perhaps the Simkins came from Westminster? :-\
i mentioned St Andrews Holborn simply as there was a Lydia Luff and other than the one with the disputed parentage we do not have a Lydia Luff, but the Lydia born in Holborn was the child of Daniel and Isabella and we do not hav these names either.
perhaps the Lydia Luff that belongs to Badg, was named afetr a relavtive of the mothers.
-
It's that time again for the new Hunt and here it is.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,322286.0.html
Good Luck and Good Hunting
As usual, this hunt will remain open for any further information which may come in.
Barbara
-
Hi
I have a Thomas WILLOUGHBY as a witness to the marriage between my 3x G Grandmother Martha Cole (formerly Glover) and Thomas Sidley in St John the Baptist, Hoxton 4th Sep 1843.
Pilgarlic
-
Badg, maybe following Alice or her father William will help you to locate Thomas?
-
Pil:
Interestingly, Lydia Luff BROOKS married James WEBB at St Giles in the Field in 1812. He was from Surrey and they settled in West Ham, Essex.
Any possibility there with your WEBBs?
toni, Lydia's birth is not disputed; it's a goal of mine to have her recognized as a LUFF.
I find Alice SIMKIN LUFF interesting and have spoken to deb about it ... think she is well worth pursuing.
Thanks again, everyone, for all your help!
-
toni, Lydia's birth is not disputed; it's a goal of mine to have her recognized as a LUFF.
is she not a Luff then?
-
Hi Toni
yep she is a Luff but was christened Lydia Luff Brooks ...her mum was Sarah Brooks, she never married !
her baptism is on IGI.
I feel the need for a Cornish hunt ...LOL .... ;D
deb :)
-
well Ed's is not Cornish just about every other County ;D
-
hi
do we have this:
The Crown Estate Commissioners and predecessors: Registered Files on Estates Rem...Broomhall Hutt Public House, Shrubs Hill, Egham: sale . Broomhall Hutt Public House, Shrubs Hill, Egham: sale BERKSHIRE The Crown Estate Commissioners and predecessors: Registered Files on Estates Remaining in Crown Possession after 1940 Windsor woods Date range: 1855 - 1860.
The Crown Estate Commissioners and predecessors: Registered Files on Estates Rem...Broomhall Hutt Public House, Shrubs Hill, Egham: letting . Broomhall Hutt Public House, Shrubs Hill, Egham: letting BERKSHIRE The Crown Estate Commissioners and predecessors: Registered Files on Estates Remaining in Crown Possession after 1940 Windsor Date range: 1846 - 1855.
MORGAN, W.A., Esq., Shrubs Hill, would like some belongings out of store. TIL/538 21 Sept. 1830
Leases of the manor of Coworth in Old Windsor, with the mansion house and 130a. [field names stated] in Old Windsor, 16a. in Sunninghill, land at Shrub's Hill in Sunningdale and ¼a., part of Coworth Bound waste in Egham, Surrey; the Red Lion in Old Windsor [reserved from the lease of 1829] and a cottage in Sunninghill; with schedules of fixtures in the mansion house [by rooms]. D/EX 345/4 1815-1831
Berkshire Record Office 3 items
deb :)
-
deb,
I didn't have all that! Where are you finding this stuff???
RE the Hutt, I contacted Crown Estates some time ago and a very nice man helped as much as he could, but he told me they had no records from the previous department that handled such things.
The first they had was about 1818 when LUFF leased it to someone else or something. Although even after that time a LUFF or two was/were born there.
-
toni, sorry I neglected to mention that both Mary SIMKINS (1771) and (1802) were from Binfield, Berks.
-
Binfield, oh i wonder if they knew the Lovelaces or the Turners ;D
-
toni, if you need any Binfield help, I've the film on perm loan at my FHC.
-
no i don't need any Binfield help but Les may do, she has Turners in Bray we were trying to connect them to the Binfield lot.
-
I'll let her know ... or you can. Whoever sees her first.
-
Badge... :o Another Broom Hill and a Sunningwell. Just south of Oxford.. ;D
-
Thanks, Les, but mine are pretty much set in Broomhall and Sunninghill and def in Berks.