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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: NicoC on Monday 25 August 08 15:22 BST (UK)
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I am looking for a William James Lipscombe born around 1884-5. I have his marriage cert to Amy Florence Lutman in 1906 in Cuckfield on which his profession is listed as brickmaker and his father as Harry- deceased, residence Plumpton.
I have made contact with a lady in America who has a William James Lipscombe in her tree- the father was Henry Lipscombe & Mary Ann Mitchell. Henry died in 1885 and Mary remarried. All this fits perfectly but I do not want to jump to conclusions as there are a number of William Lipscombes knocking about in Sussex (and elsewhere- Amy was from Sunninghill, Berkshire and there is one of the right age there too!) at the time including this one:http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=6598&iid=SSXRG12_795_797-0062&fn=William&ln=Lipscombe&st=r&ssrc=&pid=26983560 who's occupation is listed as brickmaker, is in plumpton and who in other censuses comes up as 1882. However his father is listed as William and I can find no mention of a middle name in any of the other censuses & he's certainly alive in 1901.
Does anyone have any suggestions how I could nail this one down, short of actually going to Sussex to look at the Parish records?
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Hi NicoC,
I think I've found him, at least in 1901,
Burgess Hill RG13/911/94/17
Frank Sinnock 34 Bricklayers kab b. Burgess Hill
Mary 38 b. Three Bridges
Rose Sinnock 8 b. Burgess Hill
Lily Sinnock 7m ditto
Harry Lipscombe stepson 17 Coachman b. Burgess Hill
WILLIAM LIPSCOMBE stepson 16 Bricklayers lab b. Burgess Hill
So, looks like his mother remarried. There is a birth registration for a William James Lipscombe Q1 1885, Cuckfield (2b 184) Burgess Hill is in the Cuckfield reg. district.
I'll have a look for the family in 1891 a little later this evening, although at first glance they're not showing up :(
jane
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Hi Folks
The marriage for Mary Ann Lipscombe and Frank Sinnock took place in Cuckfield in 1892. Jul/Sep 2b 275 so neither of the following looks relevant!
Jane - have a look at RG12 795 51 12 That William could be 4 not 14 but his father is William. One to eliminate anyway.
This one looks better as it has Harry in too but not quite the right ages.
RG12 795 20 8
Daisy K Lipscombe 6
Emily S Lipscombe 12
Emma Lipscombe 38
Harry C Lipscombe 14
Victor A Lipscombe 3
William J Lipscombe 9
This is going to be confusing!
Andrea
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Some more information;
Mary Ann Lipscombe & Frank Sinnock are on the same page for a marriage, Q3 1892 Cuckfield reg. district (2b 275)
Mary Mitchell & Henry Lipscomb are on the same page for a marriage Q1 1883, Cuckfield reg. district (2b 211)
They just don't want to be found in 1891 :(
It looks like the right William James that your American contact has (Harry & Henry are often interchangeable) What about the names of witnesses on the marriage cert?
jane
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Hi Jane
Yes this is the family that the lady I've spoken to in the US, her William is transcribed as William Mitchell in 1891 so he doesn't come up there. He does seem like the most likely choice but I just need to double check as I have been stung making assumptions before! ;) If it is the same family, Henry dies in 1885 so won't show up in 1891.
Andrea- now you see my problem! There are loads of them around too. I also don't like to dismiss father's as I have others in my tree where they have used their 'official' name for some censuses and their 'goes by' name for others. I tried to go through the William snr censuses to see if he has a 2nd name beginning with H anywhere but can't seems to see one anywhere. My head hurts!
P.S. Witnesses are not any help- Percy William Butcher & Ellen possibly Delacour or Dxxxvoir- I can't really read it.
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There are at least two families of brickmakers in Plumpton in 1881. There is a Henry with one of them but I think he died age 19 in 1884. Too young to have fathered both boys. Have you found the death in 1885? That might confirm some of your information.
Andrea
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Got them in 1891 - she went back to mum! With the Mitchell family. Will quote it in a minute.
Andrea
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The William Mitchell in the 1891 census does not (in my humble opinion) appear to be the same William in 1901 :-\
We're up a creek without a paddle here as everything is happening between censuses :( All we have to go on is the information on the marriage cert. William James Lipscombe born about 1885, bricklayer, deceased father, Harry. The birth certificate that I mentioned should clinch it for you by giving the mother's maiden name,
jane
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Do You have ancestry? If so this is the tree http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/pt/pedigree.aspx?tid=579693&pg=0#pedigree=-1306073316 owner rldrev. She has them marrying in 1883, Henry jnr born in 1883 too and then William in Q1 1885 with Henry's death in Q4 1884 which JUST works!
It is very confusing though!
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RG12 794 40 18 St Johns Common Burgess Hill
John Mitchell 52 Brickmaker b Horsham
Jane 50 laundress b Horsham
John 22 brickmaker b Copthorne
Harriet 20 gen serv b Copthorne
Robert 15
William 14
Alfred 13 all b Copthorne
Walter 7 b Keymer
Mary Lipscombe dau 27 wid laundress b Three Bridges
Harry Lipscombe 7 b Keymer
William Lipscombe 6 b Clayton (very close to Burgess Hill)
Thomas Lipscombe bro in law 21 b Scotland.
I think that fits with one of the families I was looking at in 1881 - several born Scotland, including a Henry.
Andrea
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Yes, going on the Thomas Lipscombe that appears as a brother-in-law in 1891, I found him with brother Henry age 16 in 1881 at Knowlands Farm, Plumpton, both born Scotland & the father is a brickmaker, so the Henry Lipscombe that died age 19 in 1885 just might be William James's father!
jane
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Do you think it's fair for me to assume that they are one and the same William or do you think that I should really order the suspected William's birth cert to confirm? Thanks for all your detective work!
Nico
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Hi Nico,
Although there are no sources quoted on ridrev's work, what we can say is;
A Henry Lipscombe & a Mary Ann Mitchell were on the same page for a marriage in Q1 1883 in Cuckfield reg district. Both were young, Mary Ann being born about 1864 & Henry 1865.
Two likely births are registered,
1. Henry John Lipscombe Q4 1883 Cuckfield reg. district.
2. WILLIAM JAMES Lipscombe Q1 1885 Cuckfield reg district.
A likely death, Henry Lipscombe age 19 Q3 1884, Cuckfield.
In 1881 Plumpton
Henry Lipscombe 46 Brickmaker b. Havant Hants
Jane 43 b. Petersfield, Hants
HENRY 16 b. Bute? Scotland
William 12 b. L...? Scotland
Thomas 10 b. A...? Scotland
Mary 8 ditto
Gilbert 11 b. Forefar Scotland
To me it looks like this is the Henry/Harry father of William James. Further evidence is that Mary Ann is back with her parents in 1891, the Mitchells.
In 1881 there's another Lipscombe family on the same page a William & Mary, possibly a brother to Henry senior above?
The birth certificate will give you William's mother's maiden name which should be Mitchell.
As Henry junior died so young perhaps he was killed in an accident? A newspaper of that time & locality might have something also a MI might survive which could give more clue's. If it was an accident a coronors report might exist.
jane
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Hi Jane
Thanks so much for your help. I don't know why I'm being so cautious this time. I guess it's because Amy (William's wife) was born in Berkshire, I then found her in a work house in London in 1891 and then as a servant in Kent in 1901. I just wonder how on earth they met?! I think I've probably had it in my head that either he was from Berkshire too or that he would have moved around alot too & it's just a shock to find him in the same place all the time!
Sometimes it would be really nice to have a time machine so you could go back & ask them...!
Thanks again
Nico
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If you find that time machine can I hitch a ride ;D
jane
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Hi Nico
The John Mitchell in the following census is the brother of my great grandfather. Your Lipscombe children were staying with the Mitchells I think their mother was Johns daughter Mary. If I can help or you need any Mitchell info let me know
Wendy
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Whoops sorry forgot to add the census info for 1891
RG12 794 40 18 St Johns Common Burgess Hill
John Mitchell 52 Brickmaker b Horsham
Jane 50 laundress b Horsham
John 22 brickmaker b Copthorne
Harriet 20 gen serv b Copthorne
Robert 15
William 14
Alfred 13 all b Copthorne
Walter 7 b Keymer
Mary Lipscombe dau 27 wid laundress b Three Bridges
Harry Lipscombe son 7 b Keymar
William Lipscombe son 6 b Clayton
Thomas Lipscombe bro in law 21 b Scotland.
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Not sure if this is relevant but my mother in law is minnette lipscombe daughter of Leonard lipscombe from dartford kent.
Maybe related I'm not sure.
Contact me and I'll pass on any info I have.
Regards Steve hiscox