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Research in Other Countries => Other Countries => Topic started by: deniroc on Thursday 28 August 08 23:41 BST (UK)
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Hi, I'm searching for my grand father's and uncle's birth in
India.. I have tried LDS, FIBIS and the British library.. no luck.
Parents: Arthur Bousten Rockley and Hellen or Ellen Rockley.
Marriage: 1885 Bombay
Children: Frank 1886, Samuel 1893 -94, Arthur (grand dad) 1890-92 and John Rockley.
Thanks.
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Hi
Have you tried all the various parts of the GRo indexes, outside the normal births in England and Wales, such as Regimental Biths, Consular returns etc?
My Grandparents were married in India and that is where they feature - not in the regimental returns in their case - could have been consular even though he was with the army. On findmypast.com or a separate section with the GRO Index fiche in major libraries. Then send for a certificate the usual way.
Maybe the British Library covered that.
Best wishes
Emms
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When you say that you have tried the British Library, do you mean the online index or have you checked the indexes at the BL itself? The online index only covers some of the BMD records that they hold.
There is also a small collection of Indian material in The National Archives collection of Miscellaneous Overseas BMDs in series RG32-36, indexes in RG43. There is a useful guide to places and periods covered in Amanda Bevan's 'Tracing Your Ancestors in The National Archives'.
Good hunting!
Mean_genie
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Hi, Thank you both for replying..
How do I check Regimental Births and Consular returns?
I had sent the BL an email which they replied, that they have my dads registration but not my grand father's and his brothers.
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Hi Geniroc
Welcome to Rootschat, by the way! I'm sure you'll get loads of help.
I've had loads of help from people all over the world., and been in touch with loads of wonderful people.
It's hard to answer your last question without knowing exactly where the British Library looked.
If it was anyu in the usual Oversea's fiche's that go with the main GRO index, you can order in the usual way, online or by post from the ONS in Southport. I'd hate you spend money that way, even for a search if the information came from elsewhere though.
I wonder as my grandparents were also married in Bombay, and they are on the GRO Overseas, if that might be the case.
Do you have access to a library with the Overseas Index oon fiche , to check? You've given us a name, so if you don't find out before I go, I'll check on ours. it might be a good few days or a couple of weeks though.
I hope you get somewhere.
Keep asking though, Rootschatters are really helpful.
Best wishes
Emms
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I don't have access to any place really.. I'm in India.
I have got my fathers baptism certificate.. what I'm wanting to know is where was my grand father and his brother's born?
not sure in England or India?
Thank you so much for offering to check up.
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Hi again
Well I've just looked on findmypast. Probably loads of people knew, but I searched on an exact year and got half a dozen results.
I don't have any credits, but one image which came up as a result was free to view as they said it was too low a quality.
When I looked, it was I I thought might happen. It was a feasible interval for the search I'd done, but he personally wasn't on it, so no point wasting money.
Better to get more details from B Library or wait until someone can l;ook in the library.
One more thought, have you got a free subscription to Timesonline? Noe a registration, but soome of them may appear. We've had some luck.
Best wishes
Emms
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I will try Timesonline.. will let you know if I have any luck.
thanks again :)
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HI Deniroc
If you think it's really conceivable that some of them were born in England, they may be on free bmd, which is not a full index, but pretty good for 19C, but certainly I can look on Ancestry which has a fuul coverage of images from the England and Wales GRO Index, but not a fully indexed search.
So as you've given such precise information, it's no problem.
I'll get back to you.
Best wishes
Emms
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Ok, thank you :)
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Hi Deniroc
I've been to the main Local Studies Library in Carlisle England today, where we have the full |GRO Index including the various overseas/ military indexes.
I looked in all the sections that apply, but there were no Rckleys at any dates similar to yours. Most sections are in intervals of a convenient number of yearsa such as ten years, and then alphabetical, but one , the regimental bit=rths covered a much longer interval and there were a group of much earlier Rockleys which I covered in case they are ever of any use to you.
Results:
Regimental Births - only as below:
(All Rockleys, Christian name, Birth place and year, Regiment, Volume, Page).
Albert E, ___ , 1864, ASCC&T, 639, 71
Albert E Aldershot, 1868, ,, , ,, , 90
Ameloa C, Aldershot, 1875 , ,, , ,, , 101
Arthur S J , London , 1862, ,, , ,, , 71
Edith A E , London , 1872 , ,, , ,, , 90
I did look on Free bmd, but didn't go too far as I wanted to see how I got on today.
There were similar ones to your names over a similar time peiod but not in the same order and not the same dates exactly.
I didn't go into it too much as I wasn't sure how accurate your dates were.
How sure are you of these?
I can have another look, but I wonder about these other registers at the British Library?
Also, I wonder if they could be registered locally if they were in the country over a period of time? Another group of mine were in Australia for a few days and the births appear in their normal registers and have Australian certiificates.
Maybe an expert on India could tell us if that could happen?
Did they return to this country to live or remain in India?
I hope we can help you.
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi Emm, thank you for your effort x but none of those names are familiar to me. about my grandfathers birth I know because of his age on his marriage certificate. and the rest are as follow:
someone found this for me on FindMyPast Frank and Samuel are his brother's and A. B Rockley traveling is their father.
Frank Rockley age 51 married - occupation insurance - departure Liverpool 16 Nov 1937 - destination port Bombay India - ship Castalia. Other Rockleys on the same voyage - Ellen 44, Thelma 11, William 8, Frank 3
There is an S A Rockley age 57 married - occupation engineer - departure 18 October 1950 - destination port Bombay India - ship Jalazad. Other Rockleys on the same voyage - Mrs B L N Rockley age 47
An A B Rockley -
Age not given - single - occupation gentleman - departure London 31 July 1908 - destination port Madras India - ship Dunera
A B Rockley
Age 55 - occupation manager - departure Liverpool 5 Nov 1920 - ship City of London
A B Rockley
Age 56 - occupation attorney - departure Liverpool 6 Jan 1922 - destination port Bombay India - ship City of Genoa
A B Rockley
Age 59 - occupation company secretary - departure Liverpool 4 Nov 1924 - destination port Bombay India - ship City of Cairo.
The first A. B. Rockley could be my grandfather but not sure as no date of birth.
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Hi Deniroc
I've been to the main Local Studies Library in Carlisle England today, where we have the full |GRO Index including the various overseas/ military indexes.
I looked in all the sections that apply, but there were no Rckleys at any dates similar to yours. Most sections are in intervals of a convenient number of yearsa such as ten years, and then alphabetical, but one , the regimental bit=rths covered a much longer interval and there were a group of much earlier Rockleys which I covered in case they are ever of any use to you.
Results:
Regimental Births - only as below:
(All Rockleys, Christian name, Birth place and year, Regiment, Volume, Page).
Albert E, ___ , 1864, ASCC&T, 639, 71
Albert E Aldershot, 1868, ,, , ,, , 90
Ameloa C, Aldershot, 1875 , ,, , ,, , 101
Arthur S J , London , 1862, ,, , ,, , 71
Edith A E , London , 1872 , ,, , ,, , 90
I did look on Free bmd, but didn't go too far as I wanted to see how I got on today.
There were similar ones to your names over a similar time peiod but not in the same order and not the same dates exactly.
I didn't go into it too much as I wasn't sure how accurate your dates were.
How sure are you of these?
I can have another look, but I wonder about these other registers at the British Library?
Also, I wonder if they could be registered locally if they were in the country over a period of time? Another group of mine were in Australia for a few days and the births appear in their normal registers and have Australian certiificates.
Maybe an expert on India could tell us if that could happen?
Did they return to this country to live or remain in India?
I hope we can help you.
Best wishes
Emms
My dad was born in India but he was registered in england we have a baptism certificate from there so even if my grandfather was born in India he too should be registered.. right?
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Hi
I would have thought so, but maybe meangenie can tell us more about these other entries. I'm no expert.
I hope we can help. By the way, could you get at church records for baptisms in India?
I wonder about passenger lists leavingand returning to Britain. Have you looked at any of these?
Best wishes
Emms
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I don't know which church.. as it is Pakistan now after partition where they were.
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Hi
I would have thought so, but maybe meangenie can tell us more about these other entries. I'm no expert.
I hope we can help. By the way, could you get at church records for baptisms in India?
I wonder about passenger lists leavingand returning to Britain. Have you looked at any of these?
Best wishes
Emms
there is a Amelia Laura Rockley born 1862 India. that is my grand dads aunt.
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Hi deniroc !
I believe one of your relatives worked for the Great Indian Peninsular Railway ... I found out that contracts of employment ... apparently can be found at the India Office - which may give you the information you're looking for !
You might also try the relevant Thackers Indian directories ... and also the India Railway board records - you may get some ideas of where to look here !
http://www.rmhh.org.uk/india.html
Annie :)
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Hi
I would have thought so, but maybe meangenie can tell us more about these other entries. I'm no expert.
I hope we can help. By the way, could you get at church records for baptisms in India?
I wonder about passenger lists leavingand returning to Britain. Have you looked at any of these?
Best wishes
Emms
I have Frank and his wife Ellen leaving for london.. found it on movinghere
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Hi deniroc !
I believe one of your relatives worked for the Great Indian Peninsular Railway ... I found out that contracts of employment ... apparently can be found at the India Office - which may give you the information you're looking for !
You might also try the relevant Thackers Indian directories ... and also the India Railway board records - you may get some ideas of where to look here !
http://www.rmhh.org.uk/india.html
Annie :)
Hi, Annie thank you.. I'm intouch with them too.. they have records of my gg dad and his employment in G.I.P Railway but nothing on his kids.
and then they have records of my dad and his siblings.. one generation is missing???
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Hi Demiroc
Thank you for all your detailed feed back.
What date was the trip back to London?
Emms
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Frank and Ellen left of london in 1953..
Ellen too has been going back an forth as Frank.
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Hi Emms,
I have found this on Frank Rockley.
Description Medal card of Rockley, F
Corps Regiment No Rank
Indian Defence Force 172 Sapper
Date 1914-1925
Catalogue reference WO 372/28
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Hi
That's interesting.
The ones on Ancestry - supposedly the same - only have Frank Rockleys in the Royal Army Medical Corps and the Army Service Corp[s. I,know they're still adding but there are loads of Rockleys.
Maybe they aren't doing the regiments from overseas. My grandad is on in India but that was an Irish regiment.
A pity. You get his service number without having to pay £3.50 to the National Archives - and occasionally , like two of mine, extra information such as an address... Most of our libraries and loads of us have got Ancestry now.
Another thought, if any of them were "Gazetted", ie had a promotion etc announced in the London (and Regional) Gazette, these are online now.
I'll see if I can find the link.
Sorry for the delay, I just found about a dozen replies on the Rootsweb list . My emails not working so I looked on there instead.
Best wishes
Emms
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Ok Emms thank you x I'll be waiting.
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Hi
I'm sorry.
There's been a lot going on here. I forgot I never finished this one.
I had to look for it and found the list of links on the other page I've given and thought it might be useful. You never know. Brothers and sisters did all sorts of things you don't know about and I've had good clues from seaches I to things I didn't know about.
I hope it works.
I haven't used it for a bit, but you had to jump between two pages, for results from the list when |I tried.
Good luck.
Best wishes.
Emms
http://www.pals.org.uk/wwilinks.htm
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02xt/
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Hi again
I was just looking for some other links and found this. It's their page about holdings for birth records overseas including outside their own collections and it's a useful read.
They reckon that the collection for India and Packistan Bengladash and Burma [n the India Office Collection at the British Library which someone has already mentioned is virtually complete, so it sounds as if it's worth getting in touch, but streess it's possibly an area now in Packistan.
They also say that some records were only passed on years - up to thirty? later.
I hope you get somewhere.
By the way, if it's relevant to anyone reading this, the page covers other countries too, so it's well worth a read for missing overseas records.
Best wishes
Emms
http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/overseas.htm
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Hi Emms,
Thank you for the links, will check them out.