RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Aks on Monday 08 September 08 17:18 BST (UK)
-
I spent a considerable amount of time tracking down my great grandmother on the 1861 census (at which point she had lost both parents), and eventually came up with "M S F, age 9, born abt 1852, in Paignton Devon, residing in the New Orphan House Number 2 in Clifton, Bristol St James and St Paul, Gloucestershire. Her name was Martha Susanna Froude born 4/2/1852 from this area of Devon and it seems that the orphans are all listed under their initials.
I thought this was a fairly reasonable identification, especially given some additional indications such as the fact that her place of birth on the 1871 census is given as Bristol, an anomaly which would be explained by her being in the orphanage in Bristol from the age of 9 or earlier. However when I contacted the George Muller foundation which ran these orphanages, they told me that she definitely was not there as she was not in their records.
Obviously, this is disappointing and, while I do not doubt their good faith and am grateful for their looking this up, I do not see how they could be so certain. I wonder if she might have been there and her name wrongly transcribed in their records. I'm just wondering if anyone has any previous experience checking records with the Muller foundation, an opinion on this matter, or any suggestions as to how to confirm this information in another way.
From what I have read of these orphanages, the girls were always kept there until they were seventeen years old, at which point they were found some form of employment, often going into service (unless they were expelled previously for some reason). Would there be some way of tracing her when she came out of the institution (normally this would have been in 1869 in her case).
-
ab,
The 1871 census springs to mind but her name would be needed. Her expected age in 1871 would also help. Have you tried this?
Regards
Chas
-
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, I already have her on the 1871 census and later. It is with regard to her being in the orphanage in this earlier period that I would like to find some confirmation.
Alan
-
Not much help re the orphanage but do you have her parents' names and have you found their deaths?
Just wondering which area they were in for the 1851 census and later?
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
Many thanks for your reply.
I do have the information on her parents, who lived in Stoke Gabriel, Devon. Martha Susanna was the last of their 9 children and her parents died when she was quite young. I also know that Martha was in the Devon House of Mercy in 1871. Since I could not find her with any of her immediate family members in 1861, I started thinking of orphanages and, given the 1871 census of her birthplace being Bristol (whereas she was born in Stoke Gabriel), I thought she might have been in an orphanage in Bristol. Therefore, to me, it seems very reasonable that she was in the Ashley Down orphanage in 1861.
Alan
-
So we're looking for a Martha Susannah (possibly FROUD/E possibly something else if fostered) aged about 9 in 1861.
Did she stay in the Devon area later? (I don;t have access to the 1871 at the moment to check)
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
Dear Arranroots,
Thanks for your interest. Please do not search the censuses for her : I have already done this. I already have her on all of the censuses, as well as her birth, marriage, etc. (She was born on 4/2/1852 in Stoke Gabriel, Devon.) The only thing missing was the 1861 census, until I tracked her down to the Ashley Down orphanages in Bristol. I was fairly certain of this identification. However, when I contacted them, they said she is definitely not in their records. However, I have come across some incredible mistranscriptions of the surname Froude in the censuses, so wouldn't it be possible for the Muller orphanage records to be also mistranscribed? I'm basically looking for someone who has previous experience in accessing their records, for example.
Thanks,
Alan
-
:)
http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/museum_gfx_en/AM18076.html
-
Thanks for your reply, Graceland. Is it actually possible to consult the indexes or lists of children who were in the homes if one visits the Muller museum?
By the way, I wonder if someone can enlighten me regarding a related issue.
In the 1871 census record for Martha, her birthplace is actually given as "Somersetshire Bristol".
I thought Bristol was in Gloucestershire. What could be the reason for it being listed as Somerset rather than Gloucestershire?
Thanks,
Alan
-
Hello again
(And hi Graceland - long time no speak - hope you're well?)
The parts of Bristol that are south of the river (Bedminster for example) were considered to be in Somerset. You're quite lucky in that this narrows it down considerably!
I wonder if it would be worth bothering the Muller people again? Just in case they overlooked something? If they could provide an alternative identity for the person it might ease your mind.
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
Bristol was in neither Gloucestershire or Somerset (since 1376?) following the granting of County status to the city by Edward 111. It was always known as "The City & County of Bristol" and had its own Sheriff as well as a Mayor.
Historically the heart of the old city was in Glos, and as Arranroots has pointed out, Bedminster & the present south of the city were in Somerset. I've found a lot of confusion in census records though - its often desribed as being in one county or the other without any good reason
Steve
-
Hi Steve
Yes, I remember they used to have some really smart road signs proclaiming the City and County of Bristol.
They were removed when Avon came into being in the 1970s ... ::) :P
For census purposes though, I think we can say that she came from "south of the river". :D
Arranroots ;)
-
Thanks to Arranroots and Steve for your postings.
It is effectively a good idea to perhaps ask the orphanage who the MSF was on the census if it wasn't her. I should have thought of that. However, I'm reluctant to bombard them with too many questions. At the moment, I am sort of in a "state of denial" where I refuse to believe the idea that she was not in fact there. However, your additional indication that she must have been south of the river seems to raise a further question as, as far as I can see (forgive my ignorance), Ashley Down is north of the river. I am now looking for what areas or towns south of the river would have been considered part of Bristol in the late 19th century. Presumably, Bedminster is the main one, as you mention it.
Thanks for all this food for thought.
Alan
-
Hi,
My grandfather and his siblings were in the Ashley Down Orphan Houses although later than your great grandmother. They have a small museum which I visited a couple of years ago and it is possible if you contact them in advance to see the original record books which were meticulously kept. The amount of detail recorded was fascinating although this was in 1901 so earlier records may not have been so clear. They even state the name, address and trade of the person the children went to work for on leaving the orphan houses and whether that person was 'a good Christian' or 'doubtful'!
I would suggest contacting them again and asking your questions directly to them. I found them very helpful and when I contacted them they sent me the original Victorian birth, marriage and death certificates from my family along with copies of every single record they held from the admission and discharge books to letters from my great, great grandparents. In fact they provided me with a small, very sad 'potted-history'.
Good luck
-
Hi Sheena,
Thank you very much for your reply and for this invaluable information.
Yes, I did contact them and they said that my great grandmother was definitely not there! This really surprised me as I had spent months tracking her down on the 1861 census and I felt sure she was there : everything seemed to match, even if only the initials of the children were given, MSF in her case. Also, I wondered how could they be so sure, when there are often mistranscriptions of her surname, Froude. I was very disappointed. The information you apparently obtained would have been invaluable in Martha Froude's case, because I really want to find out how she ended up in the Devon House of Mercy 10 years later. So it felt like I really came up against a blockage. I don't want to "pester" them too much, so I suppose I would need to come up with some additional evidence before contacting them again.
Anyway, glad to hear you got such useful information from them.
Best wishes,
Alan
-
Thanks again to Sheena (and those who replied previously). In response to your inspiration, I recontacted the Muller foundation who found my great grandmother under a different spelling of the name. It seems effectively that they have quite a few interesting documents that I can order and they are certainly very helpful, so I would encourage anyone in a similar situation to contact them.
Alan
-
That's wonderful news Alan, so glad to be of help. As I said before they provoded me with all sorts of treasures. I would be fascinated to hear what you find. :)
Sheena
-
Hi Sheena,
It sounds like it could be a while before I can get hold of the documents, but I'll let you know how I get on.
Best wishes,
Alan
-
Hi, I have paid for two orphans records who were recorded on the 1881 cenus as living there.
The results were fantastic !!!
In there records included, parents marriage and death certificates, the girls birth certs. All medical records, lists of thear possesions and correspondance to and from my great grandmother prior to placement of the girls and other familys addresses and permission to them being placed.
Finally, work placements when the girls were dischared, so all in all money well spent.
Pleae don't hesitate to contact me, regards.
Helen.
-
Thanks for this encouragement, Helen, especially as the cost is not insignificant. They certainly seem to have retained a lot of their records well. I am hoping to find out what happened to my g grandmother after she left the muller homes, as she wound up in the Devon house of mercy in 1871. I now know already that she left the orphanage when she was about 12 years old whereas, according to their website, the girls usually stayed until they were 17 and the boys until they were 14. Was this the case for your two orphans?
Best wishes,
Alan
-
Hi Alan,
My two girls Emma Jane and Elizabeth Ann Hunt came out of the orphanage together and were placed back in the village in work placements to where they were born. It was a really sad story as their brother was kept within the family.
I am still searching for them as in the 1911 census they both are still working in service, but have trawled the indexes for their marriages that might be but thier names are so common it's hard to pinpoint them as they drifted to the surrey area after staying within the village that i come from in Gloucestershire.
I purchased a book at a family history fair on the George Muller homes in Bristol and it has photos of the children in the home when my girls were there, that was very strange. I will look it out and send the publishers details you would find it very interesting.
I have also visited the museum there in Bristol and found it had some useful info.
Regards.....Helen
-
Hi Helen,
It didn't occur to me to look for Martha in an orphanage, as she had many much older brothers and sisters, until I discovered that Martha's own 3 youngest daughters were placed in an institution after she died and an "aunt" moved into her house with her own children, forcing several of Martha's out. That's when I realized that family solidarity was not always to be counted on!
Thanks for the book info if you come across it. I hope you find Emma Jane and Elizabeth Ann Hunt : are you just trying to find out what became of them or searching for their descendants? I know what you mean : I suppose if you don't have something to pinpoint them with, it must be very difficult.
I hope to find out what led Martha to go into another institution, the Devon house of mercy, afterwards, but that may be harder to discover.
Best wishes,
Alan
-
Book details:
George Muller & His Orphans by Nancy Garton. published by Churchman Publishing Limited. ISBN number: 1 85093 052 x. It cost me £3.95 but I suspect it has gone up quite a bit since I bought it!
I would strongly recommend it as it is a real 'eye-opener' and gives a fair amount of detail. My mother was amazed to find that the few food stuff that my grandfather could not bring himself to eat were staples at the orphanage.
When I've had help from the Muller Foundation I have always made a (very modest) donation as they are still a charitable organisation. They send me a copy of their annual report which, among other things has a small selection of photographs of the children through the history of the homes. I found one which I believe has my grandfather on. Although I can't be certain it looks very much like he would have at that age.
When you get the records I would imagine they will tell you where she went when she left and may give you some idea why. I wonder if she was returned to a family member who then gave her up to another institution?
By the time my grandfather was there a list of relatives was kept and I suspect one of the reasons was so that if, for any reason, the child was not kept there was someone to return them to. The requirements for these homes seems to have been quite high so for example the doctor had to certify that the child was not infirm and was not 'incontinent of urine'. My grandfather's sister Rose was only 20 months old but still had to pass this latter test! Also I believe the children had to be not just born but 'begotten' in wedlock.
-
Hi Alan,
As promised have found my book on the Orphanage titled......Bygone Bristol......Mullers Orphanage Ashley Down on old postcards by Janet and Derek Fisher it is a real find as it covers the children in day to day life in the home and around Bristol.
Regards Helen.
-
That sounds interesting. I haven't seen that one. The book I have has very detailed information about the orphanages but no photos. I must keep a look out for that one!
Sheena
-
Thanks a lot, Helen, for taking the trouble to search for the book. Amazingly, I found it (ISBN 978-1899388226) not only on www.amazon.co.uk, but also on www.amazon.fr, which is much easier for me to order.
Thanks also to Sheena : it may take a while to get the records, as they said they'd put me on their waiting list.
Alan
-
Hi Alan,
Would it be possible to contact me again once you've a a look at the book and/or once you have been sent the records from the orpanage as I would be interested to what yours contained and your impressions on the book.
Regards again.......Helen.
-
Will do.
-
If anyone wants to come and look at the records of their ancestors, please email in advance to make an appointment (this includes a look round the museum). Please note that we must make a charge of £20 for this but you will be able to take away a copy of the admission and dismission records. There is a file for just about every child, but until this is opened it is impossible to say exactly what is in there. A copy of this file costs £30, irrespective of how much information is in it.
-
Hi Silver_Shiney
Welcome to Rootschat! :)
I'm assuming you're speaking in some official capacity - is there a website or contact details for the Muller organisation?
If you could post them here (modify the email address to include [at] rather than @ to prevent spamming) that would be good, but otherwise can people send you a Personal Message to get the details?
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
The website is www.mullers.org but, although it's "up" it's way out of date and is currently being rewritten.
For appointments to see the museum (takes maybe half an hour, it's only a single room, but there are loads of photo albums from 1880 onwards) please email admin or ski at mullers.org. There is no charge but PLEASE make an appointment rather than just turn up. Two reasons - we want to give you quality time and be on hand to answer any questions you may have, and we often get parties in (school visits by appointment, or coach loads of Koreans who just turn up!!) as well as booked visits.
Please note, though, that the orphan records are not available to public viewing. The museum contains some of Mr Muller's personal stuff (Bibles, passport - not that he owned a great deal) and some artefacts from the orphan homes themselves.
I'm afraid we must make a charge for copies of records as it's a very fiddly job to photocopy them. Just retrieving them usually involves a trip up a very tall ladder....
-
Silver_Shiney
i believe i have all the info about my nans life there as my uncle had got the info , all very interesting and well worth reading
my nan enjoyed it there
-
i am hoping to find out if children living in Strood, Kent, might have been admitted to a branch of Muller's of Bristol, that is if one existed. Does any one know ? Also, if the Muller orphanages were connected to the Church of England and thus poor children of the local parish might have been sent to Bristol. The mystery involves relatives who were born and raised in Strood or Northfleet, Kent.
-
Hi heathgirl,
You don't specify the period of time, but in general if you give them details of your relative (Contact at http://www.mullers.org/), they will be able to tell you if that person was there and you can purchase their records.
They seem to have revamped their website so that's worth checking out too. I haven't really looked at the new one yet, but it seems to have some interesting historical photos.
My relative was living in Devon when she was admitted, so why not Kent. The census might help but, at least on the 1861 census, it seems that they recorded the children by their initials only, so it's not so easy to identify them, as you only have the initials (e.g. M S F in my case), age and place of birth to go on.
I'm not sure if there was a C of E connection : I think George Mueller ran this as a private institution and in many ways he went "against the grain" of the times. His story is very interesting and well worth reading, either on their website or even wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_M%C3%BCller.
Best wishes,
Alan
-
Hi Heathgirl,
My grandfather and his siblings were from Essex. He and the youngest were taken to the Muller homes in 1901. They were the first 'part orphans' to be admitted, having a father who was still alive but unable to care for them all. In fact he died the following year and the remaining brothers were taken in. It took a long time to get them a place, most poor children, depending on the date would have simply gone to the local workhouse. The Muller children were lucky.
In answer to your question about a branch in Bristol; the Muller homes were all in Bristol. There was not a Church of England link. George was a non-conformist although I am not sure whether there were any religeous requirements for entry. He set up the original home to prove the power of prayer, there was no funding and they did not ask for anything. When they needed things they prayed. My great granparents were Congregational non-conformists. The paperwork requested for my family included birth certificates and a parents' marriage certificate. I can only assume this was to confirm that the children were concieved and born in wedlock.
As other people have said the story of George Muller and his homes are fascinating. I have not checked the new website yet, but there are a lot of reasonably priced books available direct from them. There is also a fascinating book of postcards (details are in the earlier threads of this topic) showing the children were almost a tourist attraction!
Sheena
-
Speedy replies to my questions ! Thank you. Of course this makes me ask more. I have looked at the website and emailed. A cousin received the admission and discharge dates a few days ago. one wonders about the actual events that happened when a parent couldn't manage ie: did the parish start the process, did the parent show up at the workhouse or orphanage with them, or did a children's aid worker come to the house ? perhaps they didn't exist then. There is another branch in my family where a brother my grandfather didn't know about, was put in care in Lambeth, the brother stayed in England but his family doesn't know more except that both parents had died by 1913 in the Lambeth Infirmary.
-
My Great Grandmother was Martha Sussana Froude, I would appreciate any information about her and family connections, including time spent in the Muller Orphanage.
-
AKS, Mikehistory:
We've now got a "soundex" facility on our database at The George Müller Charitable Trust. Your ancestor's name is actually Martha Susannah FRUDE (as written on the birth certificate). She was admitted on 31 December 1857 and left on 7 June 1864.
(I previously posted here as Silver_Shiney)
-
Thank you very much. Actually, I already have the records, but it would have saved a lot of time if the soundex was available at that time!
-
Thanks Sheena and others who replied. I still wish I knew the process by which they came from Kent to Bristol for family history reasons. The mother might have tried to make a go of it in Marylebone London, first, as this is where she died about twenty years after her first girl was placed in the Muller home. I do know the mother was in London for some time, as there was a letter to Canada from her from that area in the 1920's: mother's name was Annie Moody nee Heath.I have searched in vain to find her on the 1911 census. Perhaps there was an agreement with London to place children in Muller's? we have an earlier example in my husband's family of some children who were sent to a home outside London because the poor union in London sent children elsewhere, regardless of living mothers. It is possible, too, that mothers simply gave their children up to Muller's - in the case of Annie Moody, her young daughters. Might this have been the cause of admissions to Muller's.J
-
Dear Heathgirl,
I understand you obtained the admission and discharge dates from the Muller organisation. Did you not receive any other documents? In the case of my great grandmother, the records reveal that she was with an older sister for a while after her parents' death and that someone in the community helped them to write to Muller's requesting her admission. So it seems that they had to obtain permission for her to enter, and I suppose a date on which to come, in advance. So one would expect there to be some sort of correspondance in your case, I suppose someone in the local church might have helped with this, but it seemingly could have been anyone, especially as I think sheena pointed out, George Muller was a non-conformist. In fact, he was criticised by the authorities for keeping girls from the workforce, because he kept them until they were 17 years old in order to give them an education.
Alan
-
Heathgirl, please contact us again with your relatives' full names and I will look in the archives for you.
Regards
-
Aks - Hi Alan, Müller's conditions for entry were that the child be born in wedlock, that both parents were dead and that the child was destitute. This was relaxed in August 1901, when "partial" orphans were accepted, those who had lost only one parent but that parent was unable to cope. In 1949 we started accepting any child, regardless of whether they were born to married parents or even if they were orphaned. This policy continued until the orphanage closed in 1986. "Religion" or "denomination" played no part in the application process. Müller was acknoweldged as being a founder of the Brethren movement although he personally eschewed denominationalism - terming himself as "catholic (non-Roman)".
Applicants ranged from family members, parish priests, friends of the family, employers of the deceased, NSPCC (who were involved in general childcare, not just cases of cruelty).
Müller set himself at odds with established practices: he built schoolrooms into the orphanages and was deeply criticised for "teaching the children above their station in life". He was accused of "robbing the factories and workhouses of cheap labour". Education continued to the age of 14. Boys then left us, girls stayed until the age of 17-18. For that 4-year period, the girls were put to work in the orphanage - they were basically being trained for domestic service. However, they were paid - 6d a week, half in their hand, half in the bank. A few children returned to their extended families. The majority left to a job. The homes were held in such high regard across the country that employers applied for an orphan and it was the employer who was vetted to ensure they were suitable. Boys normally went to an apprenticeship, girls into domestic service, although a few went to the Purton College in Berkely, Glos, to train as teachers. When each child left to go to his/her job, they were given a tin trunk with two changes of clothing, an umbrella, a Bible, a copy of Müller's lifestory, their train fares were paid, boys' apprenticeship fees were paid, the boys were given 2s 6d and the girls were given all the 3d that had been paid into the bank (averaging £1).
Regards
-
Thank you very much for offering to look in the Muller archives. Annie Alberta (nee Heath) was born abt 4 Dec 1871, Marylebone, Middlesex. She married 22 Nov 1890 at Swanscombe, Kent, to William James Moody, a papermaker. He was born 01 sept 1867 in Kentish town, Middlesex, it seems that was also Greenwich. William died 30 Oct 1903 at 23 Stonebridge Rd, Strood, Kent, of renal colic. His surname was spelled Moodey on his death certificate. Annie Moody (Moodey) had at that time five children and was likely expecting. Their children were Frederick William Albert Moody b. 1891, Kent, William James 1893, Kent, Emily Alberta Moody 1894, Kent, Katie Matilda Moody 1896 - died of scarlet fever in 1904 at the same address in Strood, Kent, Hilda Louisa Moody 1902, Kent, and Ivy Florence Moody, 1904, Kent. The information I had was that Emily, Hilda and Ivy were all placed at Muller's in 1906 but Ivy I think a few months later. Annie Alberta Moodey wrote as Mrs. A. Moodey to Barnardo's inquiring about my grandfather (he knew her as a child) unfortunately the letter was not forwarded and he never knew, as Barnardo's did not have his address by then (abt 1925) thus he lost his chance of contact with family. Annie Moody (Moodey) was living at Portman House, Lisson Grove, Marylebone at the time of the letter, and when she died 15 May 1932 she lived at Portman House, Harrow Street, Marylebone. She died of cancer. If you prefer to have this information given elsewhere please let me know. Jan.
-
Thank you very much for these clarifications, "GMCT_archivist". (Sorry, don't have your name.) George Muller was truly an amazing person for his time. Alan
-
Thanks, Alan, happy to give my name but that would then identify me and that's probably not allowed under the rules of the website!
-
Hi "GMCT_archivist",
Gosh, I'd better read the rules one of these days!
I was just wondering if, based on your experience, you might be able to shed some light on another issue. My great grandmother, Martha Susanna Froude, was in the Muller orphanage from 31st December 1857 and stayed there until June 7th 1864. In 1871, she was in the Devon House of Mercy at Bovey Tracey and I wonder if this might be because she had a child at that time. I read somewhere that in such cases the children were often "sent" to nearby orphanages. Do you have any idea what happened in such cases and how could one find out which orphanage the Devon House of Mercy would send the children to?
Many thanks,
Alan
-
Thank you very much for offering to look in the Muller archives. Annie Alberta (nee Heath) was born abt 4 Dec 1871, Marylebone, Middlesex. She married 22 Nov 1890 at Swanscombe, Kent, to William James Moody, a papermaker. He was born 01 sept 1867 in Kentish town, Middlesex, it seems that was also Greenwich. William died 30 Oct 1903 at 23 Stonebridge Rd, Strood, Kent, of renal colic. His surname was spelled Moodey on his death certificate. Annie Moody (Moodey) had at that time five children and was likely expecting. Their children were Frederick William Albert Moody b. 1891, Kent, William James 1893, Kent, Emily Alberta Moody 1894, Kent, Katie Matilda Moody 1896 - died of scarlet fever in 1904 at the same address in Strood, Kent, Hilda Louisa Moody 1902, Kent, and Ivy Florence Moody, 1904, Kent. The information I had was that Emily, Hilda and Ivy were all placed at Muller's in 1906 but Ivy I think a few months later. Annie Alberta Moodey wrote as Mrs. A. Moodey to Barnardo's inquiring about my grandfather (he knew her as a child) unfortunately the letter was not forwarded and he never knew, as Barnardo's did not have his address by then (abt 1925) thus he lost his chance of contact with family. Annie Moody (Moodey) was living at Portman House, Lisson Grove, Marylebone at the time of the letter, and when she died 15 May 1932 she lived at Portman House, Harrow Street, Marylebone. She died of cancer. If you prefer to have this information given elsewhere please let me know. Jan.
Hi Jan
Records show that Emily came to us on 30 January 1906 and was admitted to No 3 House. I had a flick through the documentation but was unable to determine why the other girls did not come in at the same time. Hilda came in on 13 June 1907 and Ivy on 31 October 1907 - both were admitted to No 5 House. I did see a letter from the applicant expressing a hope that the sickness had passed. Unfortunately, we did not have copying facilities in those days so I don't know what information was sent out. I am guessing that, because of the age differences, Hilda and Ivy would have gone to a different house from Emily and that there was an outbreak of disease that prevented the girls from being admitted to No 5 - by which time Ivy had been taken to the workhouse. There are quite a few documents relating to the admission of the three girls which may give further insight.
Regards
-
Hi "GMCT_archivist",
Gosh, I'd better read the rules one of these days!
I was just wondering if, based on your experience, you might be able to shed some light on another issue. My great grandmother, Martha Susanna Froude, was in the Muller orphanage from 31st December 1857 and stayed there until June 7th 1864. In 1871, she was in the Devon House of Mercy at Bovey Tracey and I wonder if this might be because she had a child at that time. I read somewhere that in such cases the children were often "sent" to nearby orphanages. Do you have any idea what happened in such cases and how could one find out which orphanage the Devon House of Mercy would send the children to?
Many thanks,
Alan
Hi Alan
As you say, Martha left on on 7 June 1864 - and was "given up to her sister's husband and his wife, Captin and Mrs George Devereux, 3 Brighton terrace, Park Road, Liverpool, who declared themselves to be able henceforth to provide for her, and expressed their desire to do so."
Unfortunately, we have no record of her after that. It might be worth contacting info [at] boveytracey.gov.uk to see if they can shed any light on the matter.
Regards
-
Thanks, Alan, happy to give my name but that would then identify me and that's probably not allowed under the rules of the website!
There's no Rootschat rule that would prevent you identifying yourself, should you so desire. As long as you're offering free advice and assistance (as you very obviously are - thank you) and not selling anything, that's fine. :D
We do ask that you don't post email addresses though. Rootschat can be identified as the source of spam, which could make us unpopular, so private emails should be sent via the Personal Message system and "public" ones should be provided by a link, ideally or at least no "in plain'.
Another issue that might come up concerning Muller Orphanages is the question of living people and our rule is that anyone who might still be alive should not have their details posted here.
Thank you very much for the trouble you've been going to, and the assistance you've given so far.
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
Thank you for what you have been able to provide regarding Annie Moodey. I still hope to find her in the census for 1911 when I have the time. Jan
-
Thanks, Arranroots. I certainly wouldn't put a personal email address up, but felt it safe to put the boveytracey address up. If anyone wants to email me directly, please use ski [at] mullers dot org.
Also I wouldn't put up anything relating to living people (indeed, if an "old boy" or "old girl" asks to see their records, and we know their siblings are still alive, we remove documents relating solely to that sibling first. We take our responsibilities under the DPA seriously.
Regards
Alan
-
I wonder if GMCT_archivist could help in my query. It is not related to children, but staff members.
My great uncle Walter Wood was I believe employed at Ashley Down for some years. Not sure in what capacity or for how long. It was probably late 1930s onward. His wife was Eva(ngeline). They had a son Ralph, a musician in the Marines who was killed in action in 1942 in HMS Arethusa. His mother could never accept the fact and spent the remainder of her life looking for information about him.
Any info appreciated.
Thanks
radstockjeff
-
I'm very sorry, Jeff, but, to our intense frustration, we have no records of members of staff. We have no idea what happened to the records. Also missing are the education records of the orphans. :'(
-
GMCT_archivist
I have been searching for my mother's whereabouts 1903-1919. My mother Ellen Matilda Howlett lost her mother to consumption in 1903, aged 36, and her father died aged 48 in 1913. I have been looking to find where my mother Ellen Matilda Howlett and her sister Lilly Elizabeth Howlett went to live. (I found Frederick Howlett living with his two sons) I was receiving help from Ladyhawk and she found a Lily Howless age in 1911 13 estimated birth year 1898 as being an inmate New Orphan House, Muller's Orphanage , Ashley Down, Bristol and I am hoping you may be able to check if this is our Lilly Howlett with her sister Ellen Matilda Howlett.
Most grateful for any assist in this quest. Lookin2
-
GMCT_archivist
I have been searching for my mother's whereabouts 1903-1919. My mother Ellen Matilda Howlett lost her mother to consumption in 1903, aged 36, and her father died aged 48 in 1913. I have been looking to find where my mother Ellen Matilda Howlett and her sister Lilly Elizabeth Howlett went to live. (I found Frederick Howlett living with his two sons) I was receiving help from Ladyhawk and she found a Lily Howless age in 1911 13 estimated birth year 1898 as being an inmate New Orphan House, Muller's Orphanage , Ashley Down, Bristol and I am hoping you may be able to check if this is our Lilly Howlett with her sister Ellen Matilda Howlett.
Most grateful for any assist in this quest. Lookin2
Dear Lookin2
Ellen and Lily were admitted to the homes on 27 May 1903. Please email me at ski (at) mullers.org.
Kind regards
-
I have just received a spam from adela @ superserp.com, asking if I accept sponsorship on "my" rootschat.com website.
Could I just point out that the address I gave above is ONLY for enquiries about orphans who may have been cared for by Mullers?
Thank you for respecting this.
-
GMCT_archivist
I am not sure if I need to do something re spam. I am sure Roots Chat will be on it. I am following instructions given on your Oct. 8 E.mail so you should be hearing from me in the not to distant future and thank you once again for the great help you have give me. Regards, Lookin2
-
GMCT_archivist
I am not sure if I need to do something re spam. I am sure Roots Chat will be on it. I am following instructions given on your Oct. 8 E.mail so you should be hearing from me in the not to distant future and thank you once again for the great help you have give me. Regards, Lookin2
That was not addressed to you, but meant as a warning to other spammers! Genuine enquiries and correspondence about "our" orphans is always welcome, but spam will not be tolerated, and I operate a "name and shame" policy. ;)
-
I spent a considerable amount of time tracking down my great grandmother on the 1861 census (at which point she had lost both parents), and eventually came up with "M S F, age 9, born abt 1852, in Paignton Devon, residing in the New Orphan House Number 2 in Clifton, Bristol St James and St Paul, Gloucestershire. Her name was Martha Susanna Froude born 4/2/1852 from this area of Devon and it seems that the orphans are all listed under their initials.
I thought this was a fairly reasonable identification, especially given some additional indications such as the fact that her place of birth on the 1871 census is given as Bristol, an anomaly which would be explained by her being in the orphanage in Bristol from the age of 9 or earlier. However when I contacted the George Muller foundation which ran these orphanages, they told me that she definitely was not there as she was not in their records.
Obviously, this is disappointing and, while I do not doubt their good faith and am grateful for their looking this up, I do not see how they could be so certain. I wonder if she might have been there and her name wrongly transcribed in their records. I'm just wondering if anyone has any previous experience checking records with the Muller foundation, an opinion on this matter, or any suggestions as to how to confirm this information in another way.
From what I have read of these orphanages, the girls were always kept there until they were seventeen years old, at which point they were found some form of employment, often going into service (unless they were expelled previously for some reason). Would there be some way of tracing her when she came out of the institution (normally this would have been in 1869 in her case).
I am very sorry that my predecessor gave you this information, as Martha Susannah Frude was definitely one of the girls cared for at Ashley Down, admitted 31 December 1857, and leaving 7 June 1864. Please get in touch (ski at mullers.org) - under the circumstances, I will waive the charges we make for copies of the file.
-
Hi.....I have visited their offices and museum have paid for a couple of case files they had on two of my ancestors. Extremely full of information . Well worth the money !!
-
Hi
I have just received a spam from adela @ superserp.com, asking if I accept sponsorship on "my" rootschat.com website.
Could I just point out that the address I gave above is ONLY for enquiries about orphans who may have been cared for by Mullers?
Thank you for respecting this.
A tip I have followed and always suggest to others is that if you need to post an email address on an open forum then use a format which can be easily understood by readers but not by web-bots.
for instance yours would be "ski at mullers dot org" anybody who wants to contact you genuinely would know to ignore the "s and the spaces and also replace dot with .
Just realised you have done something similar since the offending email was received, but it is still good advice for others to see.
-
I wonder if GMCT_archivist could help in my query. It is not related to children, but staff members.
My great uncle Walter Wood was I believe employed at Ashley Down for some years. Not sure in what capacity or for how long. It was probably late 1930s onward. His wife was Eva(ngeline). They had a son Ralph, a musician in the Marines who was killed in action in 1942 in HMS Arethusa. His mother could never accept the fact and spent the remainder of her life looking for information about him.
Any info appreciated.
Thanks
radstockjeff
I’m guessing you’ve checked the email 1939 register where Walter is living in No3 as a House Porter with his wife
?
-
Hi,
I have obtained two of my female ancestor files from the Muller orpanage in Bristol.
Really good value. Contained birth certs and parents marriage certs. Inventory of things taken into home, correspondance prior to entering the home and also vaccination certs and background why they were placed. Also where they went onto when they were discharged.
Best thing for research ever. My two orphans placed in 1878.
-
Hi, I am researching an Augustus Lloyd who I have just found was in the Muller Orphanage details I have found are:
1891 census
Augustus Lloyd
Mullers Orphan Houses,
Registration district Barton Regis
Sub district Ashley
Age 10, Scholar
Born Llantarnam, Monmouthshire
RG12, Piece number 1974, Folio 111
Would it be possible to find out information regarding him? As to when he actually entered the Orphanage. I believe he became a Baker's Apprentice to a Miss Bowen in Treorky in 1896 but would love to know why he ended up here and what happened to his parents in Monmouth. Regards Margaret
Moderator comment: edited to remove the copy and paste and replace with a transcription.