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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wiltshire Lookup Requests => Wiltshire => England => Wiltshire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: gaynor50 on Friday 03 October 08 14:19 BST (UK)
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Lookup Marriage - James Hains (aka Haines) to Hannah Flower :-* Devizes, Melksham Area
Lookup Parents - of the above and trying to confirm Hannah Flower's parents were Thomas & Sarah Flower who died at the same time in Jun Quarter 1840 - Death index VIII 261?
I think I may have the census 1841 - Civil Parish of Poulshot,Wiltshire (En District 5)
HO107/1182/8 Folio 4 Page 1
Everyone in Australia has their names as James Haines married to Hannah Flower and they had many children after they arrived in Australia, but the children born in Poulshot, Devizes, Melksham, St John, Wiltshire area were:
Mary abt 1836
Sarah abt 1838
Henry abt 1840
Ruth abt 1843
George abt 1844
Elizabeth abt 1847
Catherine abt 1850 (she was an infant when she arrived in South Australia in 1850)
I think I may have lucked into the correct census but I need you guys confirm this census is correct and to give the family a little more information. Sorry - it's a tough one :P
I've given it my best and it's as far as I can go for the family :-\
:-* :-* :-* :-*
Gaynor50
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Hi, do you know where Hannah Flower was born or baptised. In order to look up the marriage record it is necessary to know, as close as possible, where the bride was living. Unfortunately there are a large number of parishes in the 'Devizes, Melksham Area'.
The parents died in the Melksham District - about ten parishes - but as the first child, I believe, was born in Poulshot I'll take a look in that parish next week.
Any further information to narrow the field would be most helpful.
Cheers Dave
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Hi Dave
I only have an early South Australian biography piece that lists James and Hannah nee Flower as born in Devizes, Wiltshire. As we cannot find their marriage certificate or their birth's it has been so hard to trace these two from Australia.
As you say there are so many parishes in this area - no wonder we are strugling. :o
Hannah is listed as born in 1815 while James is listed as 1816. Their death cert's were of no help at all other than confirming approx the year of births.
Any help would be wonderful :-*
Gaynor50
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OK, I'll have a look in Poulshot and Devizes next week. Hope we're lucky. There are about 60 parishes in Devizes Registration District but I think we can discount the ones furthest away from the town.
Dave
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no luck with the wedding but ---------
hannah flowers baptised 2nd oct 1814 melksham.parents listed as thomas flowers and sarah
siblings include-
cecily bapt 10th may 1812
stephen bapt 26th aug 1821 but has a birth year of 1816 written in
ruth bapt 26th aug 1821
regards
alli
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all baptised poulshot wiltshire to parents james haines and hannah-
mary bapt 20th dec 1835
sarah bapt 14th jan 1838
ruth bapt 13th feb 1842
george bapt 4th aug 1844
elizabeth bapt 21st june 1846
william bapt 16th april 1848
catherine bapt 24th june 1849
hope this helps?
regards
alli
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Thank you very much Allibaker :-*
I have family members reading the progress of the enquiry at RootsChat and they must be so excited with your reply.
Did you note what parish they were baptised under?
One of the family members thought the parents could be Thomas & Sarah Flowers but could not get a confirmation etc. Just to confirm that the name is spelt Flowers written with an S when you looked them up?
Got to be one of the most elusive marriages though.
A lot of people have been looking for a long time for this confirmation or any word of the family in England prior to their immigration to Australia. :P
Many thanks ;D
Gaynor50
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just to confirm the surname is spelt FLOWER NOT FLOWERS apologies for that.
recorded in melksham wiltshire the FHL NUMBER IS - 1279376
hope this helps?
regards
alli
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hopefully davierj can help with the wedding but i do see what looks like hannah's parents wedding
thomas flower married sarah haywood 28th aug 1809 melksham wiltshire.FHL NUMBER 1279377
regards
alli
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living in melksham wiltshire in 1841-
thomas flower 50yrs ag lab born in county
sarah 50yrs born in county
stephen 20yrs bornin county
john 14yrs born in county ( another child? or maybe a nephew?)
SOURCE INFO-H0107-1182
FOLIO-6
PAGE-4
what made you think they had died 1840??
they are still in melksham in 1851
living at melksham
thomas flower 62yrs ag lab born REDSTOCKS WILTSHIRE
sarah 61yrs wife born WOOD ROM? WILTSHIRE
john 25yrs son born silks green
SOURCE INFO-H0107-1840
FOLIO-70
PAGE-17
MOVED TO SEEND WILTSHIRE BY 1861-
thomas flower 72yrs labourer born melksham
sarah 71yrs wife born melksham
living next door to son stephen
stephen flower 39yrs labourer born seend wiltshire
mary 40yrs wife born bramham
matilda 18yrs daughter born seend
george 16yrs son servant born seend
edmund 14yrs son born seend
emily? 10yrs daughter born seend
emma 8yrs daughter born seend
frank 4yrs son born seend
ellen 1yr daughter born seend
SOURCE INFO-RG9-1294
FOLIO-162
PAGE-19
thomas flowers aged 77yrs death registered devizes district march qtr 1867 vol 5a page 66
a poss for sarah-
sarah flower death registered march qtr 1863 melksham district vol 5a page 85
regards
alli
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Good Evening Allibaker, Davierj and other RootsChatters
You all just knock my socks off at times. Amazing!!! :o
Your help cannot be measured to the Hains/Haines family in Australia. So Exciting.
Thank you wonderful people for your help.
Gaynor50
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From the census information it may be worthwhile looking at Melksham PRs for the Haines/Flower(s) marriage.
To clarify the 1851 census information:
Thomas Flower was born in Redstocks which is a small hamlet about 2kms east of Melksham, just north of the Melksham - Devizes road (modern day A365). Sarah Haywood I imagine was born in WOODROW which is about 1 km north east of Melksham, north of the Melksham - Bromham road (modern day A3102) and was just north of the area known as Melksham Forest. Both these hamlets were in the parish of Melksham Without.
Son John would appear to have been born in Sells Green, a hamlet about 4kms east of Melksham on the Devizes road - A365. Close to the Kennet and Avon canal with a great pub, The Three Magpies.
You can see Redstocks and Woodrow at http://www.wiltshire.gov.uk/community/getcom_print.php?id=159
Woodrow was just north of Melksham Forest. Sells Green is not on the 1896, map but is just off the bottom right corner by the number 169.
Seend is just south of the area on the high ground on the other side of the canal.
Hope this helps to fill in the background, Dave
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Just had another look at the 1896 map and Seend is shown in the bottom right corner ;D
Dave
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Dear davierj, allibaker and rootschatters
I had an email from an Australian Descendant who's not used to posting a reply on rootschat. She asked me to place it on rootschat as a reply for her.
"I've got James and Hannah getting married in the Church of St Peter, Poulshot. Married by Rev William Fisher, Rector. At the time of her marriage, Hannah was noted as a resident of Worton, in the Parish of Potterne. Witnesses were James Haynes and James Pierce. I've got my reference as IGI, but this can't be correct, as that doesn't list witness names. I haven't got this recorded as a 100% proven, so haven't been quoting it. It may, though, give the researchers a short cut".
Thank you davierj - it was great to see where Seend was positioned in the Wiltshire County. Very interesting read of the area and I have placed this into my Family History program.
Thank you
Gaynor50
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OK I'll check Poulshot next time I visit the Record Office, possibly this week. You didn't say, or perhaps I missed it, but I guess the Haines/Flowers marriage took place 1830 to 1835.
What a coincidence that a witness was James Haynes.
Dave
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Getting forgetful in old age! Checked IGI and the marriage is shown as 29 Oct 1835. As Poulshot is less than 2kms from Worton it's looking better and better.
Dave
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Marriage Melksham of Thomas Flower and Sarah Hayward as stated before was 28 Aug 1809 both made their marks (X) and banns were published 6, 13 and 20 August 1809.
The Poulshot marriage 29 Oct 1835 James Hains (X), otp and Hannah Flower (X) of Worton in the parish of Potterne, banns, James Haynes and James Pierce.
Their children were baptised as told by Alli apart from a couple of oddities...
14 Jan 1838 Sarah Hains dau of James and Sarah Hannah
29 Dec 1839 Henry Hains son of James and Sarah
There was also a William and Sarah Hains in Poulshot at the same time.
In Melksham there were a couple of possible baptisms for Sarah Hayward....
21 Mar 1789 Sarah dau of Thomas Hayward
24 May 1790 Sarah dau of Hezekiah Hayward.........in both cases, as in all in Melksham at that time, there was no mother's name given.
In Seend Sarah Flower was buried 31 Mar 1863 age 72.
Dave
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Hi all,
James Haines and Hannah Flowers are my Dimboola cousin's GGGrandparents. Thanks for all the good work by so many. Gaynor50: please make contact with Shirley email: (*)
Shirley
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Hi all,
I've just recently started doing the family history again after a long break, and have just found this. I am one of James and Hannah's (many) great great children. I have an article from a local church paper when Hannah died that states....
"[HANNAH HAINES] Was born in Wiltshire, near Devizes, in the year 1814..."
I presume by "near" means a farm.
For the record the couples first child born in Australia was James Haines (Junior) and he is my Great Grandfather.
Anyone doing reasearch on the Haines' or Flowers please feel free to PM me. :)