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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: akanex2 on Friday 03 October 08 16:41 BST (UK)
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I am interested in finding out who the parents of Sarah Grissam (m. King Crawford 1902) were. In 1831 census only 3 Grissam households appear in Aghadowey parish, all of whom I have traced forward. All three Sarah Grissams of the right age who appear in my tree married other people so I'm at a loss as to where she fits in. Has anyone seen her marriage certificate?
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I too am researching the same family, King Crawford and Sarah Grissam were my great grandparents. I have the same problem as you dont know where she fits in, but have got a bit further on the crawford side.
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Hi.
I found the following
Sarah Jane Grissam born 19 Aug 1871 in Aghadowey (where have I come across that name before?!!) Father was Langford Grissam and mother was Matilita (sic) Cochrain (sic).
I have also unearthed some information on King Crawford but I am not sure of its veracity. i.e. I have children of King Crawford and Margaret King born in 1836, 1871 and 1911. A remarkable age to be childbearing or a remarkable coincidence!!
Regards
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More than one King Crawford which accounts for the range of baptismal dates. There were several Sarah Grissams in the area as well.
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Aghadowey,
I also assume that there was more than one Margaret King! The coincidence to me appears to be recurring marriages of King Crawfords to Margaret Kings: or am I missing something?
Regards
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King Crawford & ? (possibly named Eliza) had children born c1827, 1829, 1835, 1839, 1842.
King Crawford (widower) m.1846 Eliza King.
King Crawford m.1902 Sarah Grissam.
Also:
James Crawford, son of King Crawford, m.1852 Catherine King
Eliza Jane Crawford, dau. of James, m.1874 John King
Think there might be other Crawford-King marriages but can't recall a Margaret King married to a King Crawford. Do you have any more details? date? church?
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aghadowey,
I used the IGI website to look for a King Crawford and found one born 13 Sept 1836 in Coleraine. No church listed . Parents are listed as King Crawford and Magaret King. I then did a parent search. I think that it was you or possibly Christopher or Maryderry who explained to me how to do it. I found three King Crawfords born to people of this name between 1836 and 1911. I think that I have already explained this in an an earlier mail!!
Regards
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Hada a look at LDS site and think I understand the problem.
The records for King Crawford are submitted. According to the submissions King Crawford, son of a King Crawford and Margaret King, was born 13 Sept.1836 Colraine, died 16 Jan.1911 Broomfield, Boulder, Colorado and married Elizabeth Leeper on 13 Sept.1871 Marion, Marion, Ohio. The records (1836, 1871, 1911) all refer to the same King Crawford not to different King Crawfords.
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Aghadowey,
I am definately missing something. I am aware of the reliability or otherwise of the IGI site but to refer to the same man over that length of time. Does this imply that he married three different women all with the same name. When I first saw the names I did not believe it and I still don't. I think someone has made a mistake. It could be me but I cannot see where.
Regards
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According to LDS submissions:
King Crawford married Margaret King. Their son King Crawford (born 1836 died 1911) married 1871 Elizabeth Leeper.
It is possible that several people submitted information on King Crawford- such duplicatios (and often conflicting information) is quite common on LDS site.
My details were from actual church records.
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Kingskerswell
The Sarah Jane Grissam born in 1871 and daughter of Langford and Matilda was married to Charles Boyd in 2nd Kilrea Presbyterian in 1901. I also have Sarah born 1873 in Aghadowey, the daughter of Richard and Nancy (Young), who married Robert McFadden in Aghadowey Church of Ireland in 1891. The third Sarah of the same generation is where I'm confused.
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Sarah Grissam that married king Crawford 1902 must have been born late 1870s early 1880s because her last child was born 1921. her other children were called william, Martha, Hugh, Fred, louise and Hetty, thought we could get a clue from the names but still came up with nothing, but will keep on trying. ??? ::) ::)
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Carol
The names Martha and Hugh are found in the Ballygawley (Aghadowey) Grissam family rather than the Ballynacally family to which Langford and Richard belong. I have not been able to connect up these 2 branches, although as the only Grissams in Co Londonderry in 1831 and in Griffith they must surely be related. William Grissam who married Nancy Duff in Ballymena was of the Ballygawley branch (his father was Hugh) - could they have had a daughter Sarah born in Scotland?
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William Grissam (m. Nancy Duff) and children Annie and William in Scotland at time of 1871 census but son Hugh born 1873 Ballygawley.
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Martha Grissam D-28/02/1868 late of Ballygawley co Londonderry (spinster)
effects under £300 granted to Archibald Grissam of Ballygawley (farmer) nephew of deceased.
Archibald Grissam D- 21/10/1871 late of Ballygawley co Londonderry (Bachelor) farmer
effects under £200
Granted to William Grissam of Ballygawley (labourer)
the brother and one of the next of kin of deceased.
Just found this.
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John Grissam (d.16 Mar.1844), Ballygawley, m. Malshy and had children: John, Archibald, Ann, Martha (d.1868), Hugh.
Hugh Grissam m. Ann Taylor and had: John (c1822-1894 Scotland) and probably William (d.8 Oct.1894), Ballygawley.
Have re-checked my notes and Archibald d.1871 is probably another son of Hugh & Ann.
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From what I understand Archibald (d. 1871) was a brother (not uncle) of William of Ballygawley who married Nancy Duff and John of Partick who married Eliza Ann Finlay. I had wondered if their grandfather John had been the John Grissam who married Margaret Woodburn in 1st Garvagh Presbyterian in 1799 and an interested in the source of the name Malshy.
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1831 Census- Ballygawley McMullan: Hugh Grisan 4 males 3 females (R.C.); John Grissam 3 males 3 females (Pres.).
1833 Tithe Applotment List- Ballygawley: Hugh Grisham (c11 acres); John Grisham (c27 acres).
1859 Griffith's Valuation- Ballygawley: 1a Hugh Gressam (64c 3r 0p); 1b Martha Gressam (house only); 1d Hugh Gressam (lodger) (house only).
Estate of John Grissam late of Ballygawley who died 16th March 1844, Daniel Moon Lisnamuck Executor. Son John Grissam, son Archibald Grissam, dau. Ann Grissam £50.0.0, dau. Martha Grissam £150.0.0, son Hugh Grissam £25.0.0.
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On reflection could Malshy be a badly written "Martha"?
I have looked at the 1831 census in PRONI and while Hugh's family are indeed enumerated in the RC column, they are right at the bottom of the page and seem to have been misallocated. Moving them to the Prebyterian column makes the column totals correct so I assume this was an error by the transcriber and they were in fact Presbyterian. John of Ballygawley was a member of Aghadowey CoI select vestry from 1787 to 1836 and his son Hugh was a member in 1845.
Details on the others:-
John of Partick
Emigrated to Philadelphia - possibly the John Grisson who arrive in US from Liverpool on 6 Feb 1849 on Carnatic aged 20, labourer.
Married Eliza Ann Finlay in Philadelphia Oct 1852, children:-
Mary Ann b. 1855 - married John Bright in Glasgow 1874
Margaret b. 1860 d. 1861 Partick
Margaret b. 21 Mar 1862 Partick b. 1863 Partick
John b. 27 Mar 1865 Partick d. 1866 Partick
John b. 7 Jan 1867 Partick (not with family in 1881 census)
Elizabeth b. 23 Oct 1869 Partick
Hugh b. 24 Apr 1872 Partick d. 1881 Partick
The family lived at 43 Orchard Street, Partick, Scotland from 1861. John died there on 21 April 1894 and Eliza Ann died in 1896.
William of Ballygawley
Married Nancy Duff 3rd Presbyterian Church Ballymena 9 June 1866. Children:-
Annie b. Partick c1867, d. 3 Aug 1941 in Ballygawley - buried in Aghadowey CoI Churchyard
William b. 28 Mar 1869 in Partick d. 5 Dec 1902 in Ballygawley - buried in Aghadowey CoI Churchyard
Hugh b. 14 July 1873 in Ballygawley d. 23 Oct 1955 in Ballygawley - buried in Aghadowey CoI Churchyard
William and Nancy died in Ballygawley on 8 Oct 1894 and 1 Feb 1902 respectively - both buried in Aghadowey CoI Churchyard.
Annie and Hugh signed the Ulster Covenant - see PRONI website.
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Have come across Malshy/Malsy as a name in Aghadowey/Macosquin area before.
John Grissam (born 7 Jan.1867 Partick) was living in Patrick 1901 with sister Elizabeth and aunt Mary J. Finlay.
Agree with the 1831 census mistakenly listing Hugh & family as R.C.
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Managed to do a look up on the marriage certificate for Sarah Grissam and King Crawford this morning. Details are as follows:-
Bride: Sarah Grissam, age 22 yrs, Spinster; Occupation - servant; Residence - Blaugh, Coleraine; Father - James Grissam, labourer.
Groom: King Crawford, age 28 yrs, Bachelor; Occupation - labourer; Residence - Ballylease, Agherton; Father - James Crawford, labourer.
Witnesses: Hugh Crawford and Rachel Dunlop.
Sadly this doesn't answer my question as to how Sarah fits into the Aghadowey Grissam family. Anyone know anything about her father James?
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Can't see any James Grissam the correct age to be this Sarah Grissam's father. Will have a look at a few things later and send you an email.
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King Crawford age 28? In the church records they say he was born 1867 making him 35 in 1902, is it possible they got his sister Martha (1874)mixed up.
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King Crawford age 28? In the church records they say he was born 1867 making him 35 in 1902, is it possible they got his sister Martha (1874)mixed up.
Which church records?
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Ringsend pres
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King CRAWFORD born 16 Aug.1867 Aghadowey district, son of James Crawford and Catherine King. Suspect age in church register is just wrong- maybe lowered his age as bride seems to be only 22 years old.
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Bit of vanity even in those days. ;D
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Carol
Just got some papers from PRONI on Archibald Grissam (d.1871 aged 35, batchelor) which may shed more light on your Sarah's ancestors. Archibald is the son of Hugh Grissam of Ballygawley and Ann Taylor. He died without making a will but the administration of the estate was granted to his brother William, the beneficiaries being William, John and James Orr Grissam.
William (m Nancy Duff) and John (married Elizabeth Finlay) were definitely Archibald's brothers and he was a batchelor so it is a fair bet that James Orr Grissam was another brother as having an equal claim with John and William. As Sarah's father was James, this could be the guy!
This fits with some of the children's names as, by the above argument, James had a brother William and Martha and Hugh were the brother and sister of his father.
I know it's fairly tenuous but given the rarity of the name it must be a real possibility.
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This is great, because all I could find was James Grissam b-1878 & 1898.
;D
Have loads of Grissams now but trying to fit them all into the right families is proving to be difficult.
Thanks for keeping me in mind ;)
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I think I can find a place for them all now - send me a PM if you have any questions of particular Grissams and I'll do my best to explain.