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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent Lookup Requests => Kent => England => Kent Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Geoff B on Tuesday 04 May 04 22:26 BST (UK)
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Hi Foxglove
Not sure wheher you can help on this one but I'm trying to establish who the parents of Charles Jeffery Judge born between Jan and June 1876 at Rolvenden (I believe is close to Tenterden). He subsequently married at Tenterden between October 1902 and March 1903.
My problem is that there were 2 Charles Judge's born in the same year and place and I can't, as yet, work out which one my Charles Jeffery is.
Many thanks
Geoff B
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Hi Geoff,
Just checked the 1881 Census and I see your two Judge families.
My best bet is with Alfred and Jane, since Jane was born at Tenterden. I also see an aunt living with the family by the name of Hannah Gilbert - which is a family name that also appears at Tenterden.
I plan to go to the LDS library next week, if not sooner, and will let you know if I find anything.
Who did Charles marry?
Foxglove
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Many thanks Foxglove, my Charles married Ellen Cecilia Hoare. She was born in 1882 at Faversham, Kent.
Don't spend too much time on this, if necessary I'll just have to send for his birth cetificate, it was just that your mention of Tenterden made me think there might be a slim chance of getting the information another way.
Regards
Geoff
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Looking for anything for Charles Pilcher b 1808 m Frances Witherden b 1808, would like parents names if i can. Also Mrs McCaul nee Curteis, she had an Aunt Curteis in Woodside. Many thanks.
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Hello Dovedale,
I found these at the Rolvenden Churchyard MI's:
193. Charles Simmonds PILCHER died 21 October 1863 aged 55. Alfred ……….. August 29 1875 aged 33 years. Arthur ……….. July 18, 1882 …… 32 years, sons of the above. Also Art …………. (perished).
194. Arthur Edwards 4th son of Charles Simonds and Frances PILCHER died 2 February 1850 aged 1 year and 9 months.
Also found the following at the Biddenden Churchyard MI's page:
138 Frances widow of Charles S. PILCHER of Rolvenden and daughter of Richard BEALE of River Hall in this parish. Born 10th June 1807, died 6th November 1887. Also near by Anna Louisa younger daughter of above, 25th April 1914 aged 71
If you go to:
www.kentarchaeology.org.uk
you can access the records for these churchyards. You will find a few more of the Beale family members under the Biddenden churchyard records.
I believe this is likely the family you are looking for. Please let me know if you agree. I will still have a look at the Tenterden parish registers for you.
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Dovedale,
I realise that this Frances is not shown as a Beale and not as a Witherden, but there are also a lot of Witherdens at the Biddenden Churchyard - will have to take a closer look at these and see if this is the right Frances.
Will await your comments.
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Hi Dovedale,
I found something interesting which shows an association between a Charles Pilcher, a Seaman Beale, and various members of the Curteis family. This may possibly have some connection with your interests.
The information came from the following address:
http://www.bodiam-mill.net/index.htm,
under "Deeds 1631-1814"
17 & 18 Apr 1840. L. & R. The Release between Henry Charles Atley of Great Casterton, Rutland, Gent; Sarah Curteis of Tenterden, spinster; & Seaman Beale of Tenterden, gent, Robert Curteis, younger, of Tenterden, gent, & George Curteis of Canterbury, gent. The property of Sarah Curteis to SB, RC, & GC in trust for herself upon her marriage to HC Atley.
22 Ap 1850. Release by surviving trustees to Sarah Atlay (Curteis) of her property on the death of her husband HC Atlay
20 Jun 1834. Will of Robert Curteis (Brother in Law of Francis Tress) of Ashenden in Tenterden. His real estate to John Russell, George Curteis & Francis Tress Curteis, trustees.
16 Jan 1847. Will of Francis Tress Curteis of Southwark, Surrey. His real estate to John Curteis of Gordon Place, Middx, & George Herbert Curteis of University College, Oxford. Trustees.
25 Feb 1839. Deed. John Silverlock of London, tea dealer; Sarah Greenhill of Esher, Surrey, spinster; & Francis Tress Curteis, of Southwark, hop factor, & John Curteis of London, grocer. Marriage pending between J Silverlock & S Greenhill.
The property of SG in trust.
17 Apr 1844. Settlement. Caleb Rickman of Pimlico, Middx., gent.; Charlotte Greenhill of Worthing, Sussex, spinster; & John Padmore Noble of Regent Sq., London, gent., John Kingsford of Esher, gent, James Rickman, elder of Wandsworth, Surrey, gent, and James Rickman, younger, of Staines, Middx, gent. Marriage pending between CR & CG. CG's fifth share &c. to JPN, JK, JR, &JR into trust.
29 Sep 1844. Will of Stephen Greenhill of Worthing, gent. One fifth part to his children: Stephen, Mary, Elizabeth, & to Francis Tress Curteis & John Curteis. Testator died 10th Nov 1846. Will proved at Chichester, 16 Dec 1846.
12 Dec 1859. Grant. Stephen Greenhill of Sydney, NSW, gent.; to George Curteis of Canterbury, gent., & John Silverlock, of sixth share of various parts, for facilitating the sale of parts & shares, the property to GC & JS.
30 Nov 1842. Mortgage. William Curteis of Tenterden, gent & Ann his wife to John Neve of Tenterden, gent. For £2000: Release of half of a fourth share of Gate Court & 400a. in Northiam & Newenden, & 165a. of marshland in E, Guildford, Sussex; also Meriams Hill Farm, Shornden Farm & Sandhurst Green Farm, 120a. occupied by Thomas Cheeseman, in Sandhurst; Also Ives Farm, 30a., in Sandhurst, occupied by (blank) Stace; also 60a. woodland in Sandhurst; also the premises occupied by Samuel Ayerst in Northiam; also the Wharf land by the Rother in Northiam, occupied by Charles Pilcher; Also the premises in Tenterden occupied by Seaman Beale; also the premises occupied by (blank) Peake, widow, in Tenterden. Redemption for principal plus interest at 4 ½%.
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Hi Dovedale,
Still a bit vague regarding "Frances Witherden/Charles Pilcher sister married a Curteis, a son b USA"
Any further details regarding first and/or last name of the sister, date of marriage, first name of Mr. Curteis, etc.?
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Hi Foxglove, Many thanks for information,some we knew, some did'nt. Great site and excellent service, whish there were more like it.
Must have done something wrong with my posting in explainging about the family, new to this game.
Charles Richard Curteis b 1830 in USA, according to death cert,arrived in NZ 1853. Family story says he left UK when he was 22 yrs, changed his name and destroyed all his papers sometime before his daughter was born, 1888. Cannot find any trace on him any where.According to his letters, his birth date is13th June 1830. It is said that Frances Beale Pilcher daughter of Frances and Charles Pilcher was his sister, cannot prove this either.Always beleived to be related to the Pilcher's but don't know how !
F B Pilcher m Ernest Fitzroy Older,(fact) have contact with this line, some research was done years ago, thats where we got Witherden from, maybe wrong,Beale fits better.Have a glass plated photo of a Mrs McCaul ? ( not 100% sure of spelling) daughter of Aunt Curteis of Woodside, Tenterdon and Ia....iek ?realtive of Laura Curteis.Also name of Photographers and number.
Hope you can follow all that. Thanks Dovedale.
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Hello I have a Roots/Rootes line throught out this area. George Roots a carpenter has been wandering around at Biddenden he married a Elizabeth and was residing there in 1824 - 1828. Any leeds would help.
ThanX
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Hi Gabora
Can't work out if your message was to me. Do you know who Elizabeth was.
Dovedale
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Hi Foxglove, Have been sorting all the Curteis's, Beale's, and some Pilcher's, can't find a connection to Charles Simmons Pilcher, m Frances Beale, i know he was born in 1808 but don't know where, or his father, any ideas.
Have spoken to the family, they say Charles Richard Pilcher was born Pilcher then changed name to Curteis, thought there might be a connection to C S P.
Family notes were what we had already found, now i can add to them.
Thanks Dovedale
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Hi Gabora
Can't work out if your message was to me. Do you know who Elizabeth was.
Dovedale
Hi Dovedale, I posted this for any one to help. I am new to this form. To ans your question, NO. Elizabeth is the only name I have. George and Elizabeth Roots. They had children bapt at Biddenden in 1828 and 1830.
ThanX
Gabora
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Hi Gabora,
I checked the films I have at LDS but did not find a single person by the name of Roots. Unfortunately my films only cover the village of Tenterden and not the entire Tenterden registration district.
Sorry I could not be of more assistance.
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Hi Foxglove, Have been sorting all the Curteis's, Beale's, and some Pilcher's, can't find a connection to Charles Simmons Pilcher, m Frances Beale, i know he was born in 1808 but don't know where, or his father, any ideas.
Have spoken to the family, they say Charles Richard Pilcher was born Pilcher then changed name to Curteis, thought there might be a connection to C S P.
Family notes were what we had already found, now i can add to them.
Thanks Dovedale
Hi Dovedale,
Thanks for the additonal information - it helps to kow that Charles was born a Pilcher.
I looked at my Tenterden films but did not find any reference to Pilcher yet.
I did find the baptism of Mary Jeffrey - daughter of Walter and Sarah Curteis on July 27, 1804 - she was actually born Oct. 23, 1802 at Tenterden, according to the parish register)
She became Mrs. Seaman Beale.
Will need some time to review the details we now have to see if anything starts to make sense.
Regards,
Foxglove
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Thank You for your efforts............................
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Hi Gabora, Have had a quick look at Kentarchaelogy, found some Roots there, have you tried it.
/Research/libr/Mls/ Roots site:http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk
I found this very helpful
Dovedale
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Hello again Dovedale,
I found this at LDS from the IGI:
431. CHARLES RICHARD PILCHER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 14 JUL 1837 Playden, Sussex, England
432. ALFRED WILLIAM PILCHER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 07 OCT 1840 Playden, Sussex, England
The records state that both Charles and Alfred were sons of Charles Pilcher and his wife Frances (no last name given)
From a Pilcher database referred to previously I found this:
1888 Wills
Alfred William P, Tenterden, Kent (d Aug 1874; Frances Beale Older, sister)
Arthur Henry Edmonds P, Tenterden, Kent (d Jul 1882; Frances Beale Older, sister)
Frances P, Tenterden, Kent (d Nov 6, 1887; Anna Louisa P, daughter)
This may be the Charles you are looking for and the details about Wills would prove his relationship with Frances Beale.
We will have to try and find the age of Alfred William Pilcher when he died in Aug. 1874 to make sure it is the same Alfred who was a son of Charles and Frances.
This Charles does not have the same birthday, but then if your Charles changed his name perhaps he changed his birth date as well. More work to be done......
Let me know your thoughts.
Cheers,
Foxglove
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Hello Dovedale,
Further to my earlier message of today, I will copy a private note which you sent to me previously:
Hi Fovglove. C R Curteis is indeed curious, cannot be sure of his name and birth date, its only what has come down through the family. Why would you destroy all your papers I do have a copy of marraige cert and death cert and it has born USA and birth year 1830.
Will check out Charles Beale and Mary Witherden, i did see it and wondered the same, but never worked out why. Had too many names dates etc going around in my head.
Have most or all on the Alfred Wm / Arthur H E Pilcher, brothers of Fraces Beale / Older some of which i got from Colleen Shepard her Pilcher
page.
Have papers arriving with information on Curteis side, but think they will only confirm what we have just found. Will let you know, hopefully it may give a few clues to C R C. His wife was Jane Louise Slater Lang b 1835, Glasgow, father Mathew, can't find a trace on her, and have had no replys from Scotland.She was training to be a doctor / nurse before she came to NZ, we still have her medical bag, has Glasgow on it, probably from around 1850's.
Many thanks once again for all you have done, best service i have ever got. I am also doing Ivamy / Evamy, thats my side of the family.
Regards Dovedale
If you think that we may be on the right track with Alfred Wm. Pilcher, Arthur H. E. Pilcher, and now this newly found brother Charles Richard Pilcher born in 1837 at Playden, you may be interested in the following:
Children of JOHN TOMPSETT and ANN MAYNARD are:
16. i. FRANCES8 TOMPSETT, b. December 08, 1774, Wadhurst, Sussex, England; d. December 1856.
ii. ELIZABETH TOMPSETT, b. May 20, 1776, Wadhurst, Sussex, England; d. May 27, 1859, Marden, Sussex, England; m. CHARLES PILCHER, Abt. 1804; b. Abt. 1768, Woodchurch, Kent, England; d. April 21, 1844, Playden.
iii. MARIA TOMPSETT, b. Abt. 1778; d. Aft. 1851; m. GEORGE HARRIS, April 23, 1805, Etchingham, Sussex, England.
17. iv. JOHN TOMPSETT, b. Abt. 1782, Wadhurst, Sussex, England; d. 1879.
v. SARAH TOMPSETT, b. Abt. 1784, Wadhurst, Sussex, England; m. GEORGE NEWINGTON, 1805, Ticehurst, Sussex, England.
18. vi. JAMES TOMPSETT, b. May 28, 1787, Wadhurst, Sussex, England; d. 1851.
This may be the grandfather of your Charles Pilcher/Curteis. He died in 1844 at Playden..........and was married in 1804 - this fits with the father of your Charles being born about 1808.
Three generations of these Thompsetts were from Tenterden.
This one gets very confusing so if you think I am off track please let me know - still haven't figured out Witherden.
Cheers,
Foxglove
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Hi Fovglove, Many many thanks for information, sounds like it could be him, although W / D cert said b in USA,will check it out more.Could this be fake ? Can't find out if you needed to register when changing names etc in 1800's. if so how / where.
Have the 1888 wills, thanks.
Will check out A W Pilcher
Also found a decendant of C S Pilcher, (CRP father) or C S P father, sent him an email but it came back, will keep trying.
Have Tompsett's but could'nt connect them
Regards Dovedale
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Hi Foxglove
I have two main familiies who originate from Tenterden:
Weston family including
John Pix W b 1810
Henry Burton W b 1812
Thomas W b 1813
Jane W b 1814
Stringer W b 1816
Elisabeth W b 1818
Marie W b 1820
John Pix W b 1833
Jane E W b 1834
Henry W b 1835
Harriet W b 1837
Emma W b 1838
Wightwick (or Witewich or similar)
Jane Elizabeth Wightwick b 1812, m John Pix Weston 2 Aug 1831 ( no other family details known)
ANY info would be veryhelpful
Russell
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Hi Russell,
Sorry it took so long, but here is what I found:
By chance, my film included P.R.'s for Stowting and I noticed that a Curteis Whitewick was a curator of that parish in 1751.
Marriage at Tenterden 20th March 1809
John Tempest WESTON & Jane PIX
25th July 1809 Thomas WESTON marr. Catherine MANTELL
6th Aug. 1809 Baptism - Sarah d/o John & Eliza. Whitewick
21st June 1809 Edward Whitewick buried
7th Nov. 1806 Edward Wightwick buried (age 6)
25th Feb. 1807 Wm. Wightwick buried
23rd Dec. 1801 - baptism of Kitty, d/o Richard & Kitty Whightwick
It appeared that Jane Elizabeth Whitewick, d/o John and Elizabeth, was baptised 19th July 1811.
I will double check this on another film since you have the year as 1812.
Do you have the day and the month to go with the years of birth you have listed for the Weston children?
If not I can go through the film for them - I will try and verify the years you have given me as well.
I will probably find more the next time I view the film
If this info. brings to mind any questions, please let me know.
Regards,
Carol
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I just happened to see your offer. I hope I am not too late to request some help. I have a branch of my tree that left the UK for the American Colonies in 1645 that originated in Tenterden Kent. I am hoping you can confirm some of the data I have found associated with the family through the parish records.
John Stanley (also spelled Standley) bapt Dec 26, 1624 Tenterden
father- John Stanley
mother- Elizabeth Urridge (her last name is a bit of a mystery but many claim this is her last name)
died 1706 in Farmington Connecticut, USA
John Stanley Senior- bapt Oct 8, 1599 in Tenterden
father- Robart Stanley
mother - Ruthe
married Elizabeth October 14, 1623 Bennedden Kent
died at sea
Robart Stanley- bapt March 9, 1571-72 in Tenterden
married Ruthe ??? June 1, 1590
died May 31, 1605
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Hi Nutkin,
I hope to visit the LDS library again next week.
The handwriting becomes a bit of a challenge to decipher in the 1600's and earlier, but I will see what I can do for you.
Having the dates already does help as I will know exactly where to look initially.
Will let you know what I find.
Foxglove
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Hi again Russell,
I don't know if you are aware of this, but there is some very interesting information about your Wightwick and Weston families at the Tenterden Churchyard MI's page - here is the link:
www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/ Libr/MIs/MIsTenterden/MIsTenterden.htm
Cheers,
Foxglove
Hi Foxglove
I have two main familiies who originate from Tenterden:
Weston family including
John Pix W b 1810
Henry Burton W b 1812
Thomas W b 1813
Jane W b 1814
Stringer W b 1816
Elisabeth W b 1818
Marie W b 1820
John Pix W b 1833
Jane E W b 1834
Henry W b 1835
Harriet W b 1837
Emma W b 1838
Wightwick (or Witewich or similar)
Jane Elizabeth Wightwick b 1812, m John Pix Weston 2 Aug 1831 ( no other family details known)
ANY info would be veryhelpful
Russell
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Thank you! YOur help is very much appreciated! ;) Kristin
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hi
i hope im not too late for your offer, do you know if woodchurch, kent is included in tenterden records please?
if so, im looking to trace John Nye Beaney (possibly beane) born 1834/1835 in woodchurch, kent
yours ever hopefully
serena
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Hi Serena,
Not too late, but I don't believe Woodchurch records are covered under my Tenterden films. I will have a look for John Nye Beaney just in case, and will let you know if I find anything. I am not sure when I will next visit the FHS - hopefully within the next 2 weeks.
Cheers,
Foxglove
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Hello Nutkin,
Sorry for the delay, but I have finally found some of the information you requested.
From the Tenterden Parish Registers - FHL BRITISH Film
1752237 Item 3 (Archdeacon's Transcripts)
I can confirm that John Stanley was baptised 26 Dec. 1624
father listed as John Stanley but it appears mothers were not listed
the writing is old English at this point in the film and very difficult to decipher.
I can also confirm the baptism of John Stanley Sr. on Oct. 8, 1599
son of Robert - again I can't be sure the mother's name was there.
I was not able to find Robert Stanley's baptism in 1571/72, nor did I see his marriage to Ruth in 1590.
Parts of the pages are missing at this point.
I will take some digital photos of the relevant pages and see if anyting is more clear on a computer.
I did find Robert Stanley's burial at Tenterden, on June 1st, 1605.
Will let you know when I have some photos of the images.
Cheers,
Foxglove
I just happened to see your offer. I hope I am not too late to request some help. I have a branch of my tree that left the UK for the American Colonies in 1645 that originated in Tenterden Kent. I am hoping you can confirm some of the data I have found associated with the family through the parish records.
John Stanley (also spelled Standley) bapt Dec 26, 1624 Tenterden
father- John Stanley
mother- Elizabeth Urridge (her last name is a bit of a mystery but many claim this is her last name)
died 1706 in Farmington Connecticut, USA
John Stanley Senior- bapt Oct 8, 1599 in Tenterden
father- Robart Stanley
mother - Ruthe
married Elizabeth October 14, 1623 Bennedden Kent
died at sea
Robart Stanley- bapt March 9, 1571-72 in Tenterden
married Ruthe ??? June 1, 1590
died May 31, 1605
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Foxglove- Thank you so much for all your help. It is good to get confirmation that the information I have found has come from parish records.
A great help!!!! :D Kristin
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Hi Foxglove, I found your name with a search for Wightwick, which you have helped with. Perhaps you could help me with my ggg William Haines born 1826/27 in Hawkhurst and is on 1861 census with wife Elizabeth born Tenterden and 3 children and lodger Elizabeth Wightwick born 1790 widow. What is the relationship between the Elizabeths? Any info on any of these people would be appreciated.
Many thanks
jsg
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Hello JSG,
Have noted your question and will first have a look through my notes as I recall quite a few
Wightwick's over a number of years, and I have not yet completed that "project".
If I don't find both Elizabeths I'll have a look on my films next time I visit the LDS library.
Cheers,
Foxglove
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Hello Foxglove,
Can you possible look up the Death record for SOLOMON CHACKSFIELD
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
][/color]which took place in Tenterden on 29 April 1780. I have two possible dates of birth from familysearch. org (25/6/1708 & 1703 ).
Thankyou
Sarajane :)
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Hello Sara,
I found the notes I had on the Chaxfield family
and I had recorded the burial of
Solomon Chaxfield on April 29, 1780 which matches your information
Unfortunately there is no mention of his age - that detail is not always included.
I will go back and look next time I am at LDS just to make sure, but I would normally include that in my notes.
With regard to the base born children of Mary Ballard,
This is what I had written down as written in the Parish Registers:
Aug. 3, 1777 - Mary, base born daughter of Mary Ballard
October 3, 1779 - Stephen, base born son of Mary Ballard
Then on December 16, 1779 I noted the burial of Stephen Chafield
(no age given, once again)
I did not see the marriage which you have in November of 1779,
for Mary Ballard and Solomon Chacksfield,
but for some reason when making these notes, I wondered if this Stephen "Chafield" might possibly be the infant son of Mary Ballard who was born Oct. 3, 1779.
I knew there should be a marriage record there somewhere but it was not on this film.
Oct. 22, 1780 there is another son baptised
Thomas, son of Solomon and Mary Chaxfield
Aug. 31, 1783 baptised - Edmund, son of Solomon & Mary Chexfield
Edmund's burial was recorded Feb. 10, 1784
Not sure if you require more.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Foxglove
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Hi Foxglove, I found your name with a search for Wightwick, which you have helped with. Perhaps you could help me with my ggg William Haines born 1826/27 in Hawkhurst and is on 1861 census with wife Elizabeth born Tenterden and 3 children and lodger Elizabeth Wightwick born 1790 widow. What is the relationship between the Elizabeths? Any info on any of these people would be appreciated.
Many thanks
jsg
Hello "jsg",
From LDS family search:
I found a christening - Elizabeth Whitewick 21 March 1830, Tenterden Kent
daughter of Sarah Whitewick
and also,
Sarah Whitewick christened 06 Aug. 1809
daughter of John Whitewick and Elizabeth Newsham
This would fit with your Mrs. William Haines who is reported as age 51, born Tenterden, on the 1881 Census at that location.
I have checked the entry for the William Haines household on the 1861 census and note that Mrs. Elizabeth Wightwick was recorded as age 80 which means she was born
circa 1780.
If you go to www.familysearch.org and search for the marriage of John Whitewick, county of Kent, year 1800, on the IGI,
you will find the family record there showing the marriage of John Whitewick to Elizabeth Newsham 22 Feb. 1800. You will see the names of his parents and his date of birth, along with names of their children, including Sarah.
Elizabeth Newsham's birth on the IGI was "about 1779" which fits with age 80 on the 1861 Census.
So it appears that the two Elizabeth's in 1861 were grandmother and granddaughter.
The possibility of another Elizabeth Whitewick born about 1830 should still be ruled out, but this appears to be the family you are looking for.
I tried Free BMD for the marriage to William Haines with no luck. Will, of course, check the Parish Registers at Tenterden.
Regards,
Foxglove
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to foxglove re wightwick
many thanks for your help. I had much of this info but could not get it into proper order without you
jsg
researching haines brann george shoebridge and now wightwick
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:) Thankyou again Foxglove, that's been helpful.
I think I'll have to write to the lady I previously mentioned to find out where she got here data from. Then I'll be in contact, if that's ok?
Thankyou again ;D
Sarajane
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researching haines brann george shoebridge and now wightwick
Hi
I think we may have corresponded before re BRANN and GEORGE etc, on another list, but I have the baptism at Hawkhurst on 24th Dec 1826 of a William HAINES son of Thomas (Carpenter) and Louisa HAINES of Hawkhurst. Also have other siblings if interested.
Regards
Polly
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to polly re haines 1826
thank you and would love to receive more details
thanks
jsg
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Hi
I have sent details as a separate e-mail message to save cluttering the list
Polly