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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: ptdrifter on Friday 21 November 08 12:41 GMT (UK)
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Hi all
Doing some research for a friend and having difficulties with one particular gent.
Can't find his birth, death or find him on any census !
His name ?
Frederick Fant Michael Abbott
Born c 1870 possibly in Doncaster or Lincoln area. Died I think after 1940 around Edgware.
Occupation as stated on second marriage cert "Professional thought Reader"
Fathers name George Patrick Abbott a Surgeon.
Now he should be easy :(
I have found a photo on the NA site, (" standing upon a subjects body he has reduced to a state of catalepsy").
A book possibly written by him , two patents, two marriages and two divorces, so I have been looking :)
Have trolled through the BMD's for hours .. help please :)
Fred
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are his dad's details the same on the 1893 (Donc) and 1903 (Lincoln) Marriage Certs ?
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Sorry have not got the first cert yet
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any 'interesting' witnesses on the 2nd cert ?
assume his age shown as 33 ish then ?
The only Abbot who is a surgeon on the 1881 census, is Irish looks recently married with 2 very young kids ....
maybe someone else will have an 1871 census with the ability to search on ocupation ....
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Hiya Fred
What were his wives names? maybe we can find them in later census and work backwards
Willow x
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you'd think so wouldnt you !
didnt help that they married just after a census !
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His wife from 1893 until 1902 was Alice Hawthorne Axe.
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No interesting witnesses, but states father deceased. And I have not found a death for George Patrick Abbott yet either !
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saw Alice H on the 1891 - born c1863 Donc', but no death record seems to match that age ?
(Was that from your friend as the Cert isnt available ? )
Are you assuming she lived until the year before he remarried ?
PS. Just noticed that her Dad Joseph was a Vetinary Surgeon .... maybe a pre-marriage link to the Abbots ?
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And there are two Alice Hawthorne Axe's one born in 1863 and one in 1870, both in Doncaster
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Perhaps the 1863 Alice didn't marry?
Deaths Jun quarter 1912
AXE Alice H 49 Doncaster vol 9c p 869
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Yep, just noticed that Alice H was still at home in 1901
RG13/4411; Folio: 21; Page: 34
so where the 1870 Alice in 1891 ?
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I've got a George Abbot (who was married to a Maria) in 1871 census who was a GP in Leicester and later a surgeon in the Reynolds Newspaper in 1874
Beatle
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The 1870ish Alice Axe was with remarried mother and stepfather William Timlin in 1881, the family is still there in 1891, but Alice isnt - and no marriage pre-1891 ...
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Is this a third marriage?
Marriages Sep quarter 1912
ABBOTT Frederick F M Thorne Paddington 1a 229
THORNE Doris Abbott Paddington 1a 229
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I've got a George Abbot (who was married to a Maria) in 1871 census who was a GP in Leicester and later a surgeon in the Reynolds Newspaper in 1874
Beatle
Thanks Beatle will look into that
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Is this a third marriage?
Marriages Sep quarter 1912
ABBOTT Frederick F M Thorne Paddington 1a 229
THORNE Doris Abbott Paddington 1a 229
Hmmm very possibly, thank you Galium
(Wouldn't you know it, just after the census (when it comes out ))
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If you have access to the 19th Century British Library Newspaper collection, you may have seen a report from Derby Borough Police Court about Frederick Fant Abbott [Derby Mercury 3 May 1899]. He was summoned for travelling on the Midland Railawy without paying his proper fare. It says that the defendant is a lecturer on shorthand, and that he did not appear because he was lecturing in Bristol. It also mentions that he had given an address in London.
Reports in the Times from 1926 mention litigation between Frederick Fant Abbott, illusionist and several newspapers, for libel.
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1901 census
25 Argyle Street, Grays Inn lane, London
[several households at this address]
Frederick Abbott head 30 Professional artiste Derbyshire, Derby
Kitty Abbott wife 26 Professional artiste Nottinghamshire, Nottingham
Class: RG13/Piece: 141/ Folio: 77/ Page: 32
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1891 census
18 New York Street, Chorlton-on-Medlock, Lancashire
[household of John Gibson coal dealer]
Frederick Abbott boarder 21 Professional lecturer Derby
Class: RG12/ Piece: 3184/ Folio 31/ Page 20
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Good stuff Galium !
That 1st marriage Cert would be good to have to match occupation with your 1891 find ...
Did PTD see the facts about the younger Alice ?
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I see that Frederick married Kitty White in 1903 - looks like they were already together in 1901.
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which says that the first wife (Alice or Susannah) died - if indeed she did ! - twixt 1893 and 1900ish ?
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If you have access to the 19th Century British Library Newspaper collection, you may have seen a report from Derby Borough Police Court about Frederick Fant Abbott [Derby Mercury 3 May 1899]. He was summoned for travelling on the Midland Railawy without paying his proper fare. It says that the defendant is a lecturer on shorthand, and that he did not appear because he was lecturing in Bristol. It also mentions that he had given an address in London.
Reports in the Times from 1926 mention litigation between Frederick Fant Abbott, illusionist and several newspapers, for libel.
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1901 census
25 Argyle Street, Grays Inn lane, London
[several households at this address]
Frederick Abbott head 30 Professional artiste Derbyshire, Derby
Kitty Abbott wife 26 Professional artiste Nottinghamshire, Nottingham
Class: RG13/Piece: 141/ Folio: 77/ Page: 32
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1891 census
18 New York Street, Chorlton-on-Medlock, Lancashire
[household of John Gibson coal dealer]
Frederick Abbott boarder 21 Professional lecturer Derby
Class: RG12/ Piece: 3184/ Folio 31/ Page 20
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Wonderful stuff Galium, how did you find him ? I have searched and searched the censuses for him. Now you have found him and when i search up he comes !!!! ????
Many many thanks .
I love Rootschatters , always willing to help
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which says that the first wife (Alice or Susannah) died - if indeed she did ! - twixt 1893 and 1900ish ?
He divorced his first wife Alice Hawthorne Abbot nee Axe in 1902.
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It says that the defendant is a lecturer on shorthand,
That fits perfectly as I have found a book on Swiftograph shorthand by Professor Fant Abbott
wooo hooo
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It seems you knew more about his first marriage then ? Would have saved a lot of time - looking for a death to try and ascertain his whereabouts ....
any relevant details from that first marriage to help pin him down pre-1891.
:)
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If you consider the possibility that Frederick was born out of wedlock - a tentative candidate for his father might be Patrick Fant, surgeon, born c1815 in Ireland.
He appears on the 1861 census living in Derby. [Class: RG9/ Piece: 2501/ Folio: 4/ Page: 7]
and in the 1871 census living in Litchurch, Derbyshire. [Class: RG10/ Piece: 3574/ Folio: 84/ Page: 27]
Both times he says he is married, but no wife is present.
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Is this a third marriage?
Marriages Sep quarter 1912
ABBOTT Frederick F M Thorne Paddington 1a 229
THORNE Doris Abbott Paddington 1a 229
Hmmm very possibly, thank you Galium
(Wouldn't you know it, just after the census (when it comes out ))
Yes definitely him, and I have now found that Doris died in 1924, (run over by a bus), F F M Abbott died in 1947.
If anyone has access to the "The Stage" archives, look for " Fant Abbott" and his stage name "Charcot". He is a fascinating character, I have spent hours today reading about him.
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I did get the impression that he was a rather colourful character :) . Wonderful to have someone like that to research in your family.
Trying to find him earlier than 1891, but with no definite sighting of a Frederick Abbott to match later records.
However, there is this little family in 1881:
24 Albert Street, Spittlegate, Lincolnshire
Thomas Stobbart head 39 Joiner Cumberland, Farlam
Elizabeth Stobbart wife 33 Derbyshire , Derby
Frederick Stobbart son 11 scholar Derbyshire, Derby
Class: RG11/ Piece: 3233/ Folio: 38/ Page: 32
I have traced Thomas back through the censuses - and I think he is the son of John and Mary Stobbart, born at Farlam in 1841 (IGI baptism).
In 1871 he is still unmarried, living in Farlam with his brother Robert, and working as a joiner.
Class: RG10/ Piece: 5210/ Folio: 27/ Page: 8
His age, as recorded by the enumerator is 41 ( should be 29 ) but as Robert's age is 41 I think perhaps the enumerator's attention wandered for a moment. I am pretty sure that this is the same chap as in 1881, the point being that it doesn't look as if he is the father of 11 year old Frederick in 1881.
In 1874 a Thomas Stobbart married Elizabeth Abbott in Salford (on Lancashire BMD database)
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Hi Gakium, thanks for your persistence. That is ceratinly something to look into.
Colourful is not the word. He won the 1926 libel case against 11 national newspapers and was awarded £500. The papers had said he had ruined a trick on stage. He demonstrated the trick in court, it was the famous sawing a lady in half !
One of his publicity stunts was to advertise his shows by driving a two horse carriage through the town .... blindfolded :)
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Hi there, you are or were researching my Grandfather, Frederick Fant Abbott. Just wondered if you found out any more as i am just starting to research him myself, Susan
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I will get back to you on this
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I look forward to that x