RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: shawaii on Friday 28 November 08 19:00 GMT (UK)
-
I have hit a brick wall on this one for last month finding nothing. Hope someone out there may have come across them inadvertently, whilst searching their own 'Stanleys'. My very first post so be patient if I am in the wrong place ;)
I do believe they are travellers, but not 100%. My G G Gran is Emily Carter b. abt 1840 in Sussex, found on a few census to be a travelling hawker. She married Francis Light b. abt 1830. They married in 1872 4th quarter in the district of Chichester, both down as widowed him down as occupation cabman. This is where my plight starts as the marriage cert only has her fathers name, presumably her maiden name, but all I can make out is the surname Stanley.
The first name does not appear to be of any English that I can make out. All I can say is the end seems to contain the letters 'delo', Mandelo, bandelo? (Could there be such a name or similar) Can also note the occupation as Horse Dealer. Tried comparing the letters with other deciphered words to break it down, but no joy. Francis Light has not put his father down at all, so again dead end apart from family reference as place of birth Epsom, Surrey.
I have traced their movements since marriage from Chichester to Notting Hill and then on to Fulham where they were in a caravan, Victoria Yd Garden Row during the 1881 census. Francis is not around in the 1891 census so presumed to be dead.
Its before that I am struggling to get leads on.
I got a certificate for what I though may be Emily's first marriage to 'Carter', but alas it was coincidence another Emily Stanley.
Also no luck with a birth cert for either as yet.
So any pointers for breaking through brick walls gratefully received, especially if she is from the travelling community. I have gone through loads of previous posts but can't seem to find what I might need to help.
May also be useful to say that Emily is also known as Emilene in some records.
Thanks, Sue
-
Hi Sue,
Is there any way you could scan the section in with her Father's name so we can see it?
Regards, Emma ;)
-
Hi Emma, I have scanned the copy. Unfortunately its a really dark copy which adds to the problem, but have done what I can. Hopes it works, I am hopeless at some of this attachment stuff! Thanks for looking in. Sue
-
Hi Sue,
Purely guess work at the minute but I'm inclined to say Vandelo Stanley. There is this death:
Stanley, Vandelo
Death
Q March 1889
Age 87
Westhampnett
Sussex
Vol 2b
Pg 244
Regards, Emma ;)
-
Brill Emma, what a star, will look into it more now and see if it ties up. Very unusual name anyone ideas of origin?
-
In 1861 there is this family - note the son's name - would assume they are linked!!
1861
Mill Lane ??, Alverstoke
Daniel Stanley, Head, 57, Basket Maker, Hants Chilbolton?
Ann Stanley, Wife, 50, Hawker, Sussex Emsworth
Mary A Stanley, Daughter, 21, Hawker, Sussex Vine Hill
Vandelo Stanley, Son, 18, Horse Dealer, Sussex Silver Hill
?? Stanley, Daughter, 16, Hawker, Hants Portsmouth
Robert Church?, 18, Ag Lab, Hants Wickham?
RG09/646 F 120 P 28
-
Sorry I'm a bit all over the place but I'm just posting things as I find them!
1881
Van (next property is 1 Railway Cottages), Oving, Sussex
Vandelo Stanley, Head, Wid, 79, Hawker, Hants Southampton
RG11/1126 F 97 P 37
Regards, Emma ;)
-
1861
Petworth Gaol Special Release? (not sure on the last word), Petworth, Sussex
Vandelo Stanley, Prisoner, 57, Mar, ??sey, Hants Farleigh
RG09/611 F 87 P 55
-
I have found the following Christening:
Betsey Stanley
16th September 1827
Salehurst, Sussex
Father: Vandal Stanley
Mother: Sally
-
Naughty boy!! I have found the records for the first couple of posts you have put, saving them now for reference. I'm so excited after so much searching - another brick wall climbed for now. Brilliant to have such a great site as this one, never knew it existed until I googled. Such brilliant people too spending their own time helping others. Back to the seach........
-
I think I may be finding some relatives of the original Vandelo, all same area of birth and most hawkers or basket makers........... :)
-
Now, I know we're looking for Emily, but I'm trying to close the net!!
1871
Florence? Lane, Oving, Sussex
Vandelo Stanley, Head, 67, Hawker, N K
Sarah Stanley, Wife, 65, Hawker, N K
RG10/1115 F 107 P 46
Regards, Emma ;)
-
Checked this out and agree Florence Lane seems probable. No sign of any other Stanleys nearby, I went over pevious pages. The Romany genes web site has loads on there too, but sadly still no sign of Emilene / Emily prior to 1872 on second marriage. Will have to keep plodding along. She also had an Emilene / Emily daug. Keturia daug. Edis daug. can't find any apart from Emily as she was my greatgran. Was told via the family Emily the daug was only 16 when she married and first born was Selina but again no records and she only survived a few years - apparently. Thanks again though for the leads you have given me Emma, at least I have loads to keep me occupied for a while ;)
-
Hi
My name is Alan Ralph
I think we are looking for the same family history
My records go back to the same as you for Emily Carter and Francis light
My Nan lived in the Fulham caravan site as a child Violet Thompson born 1908 who’s mother was Edith Thompson
My Nan who died 2005 could remember the light circus in her family
I haven’t subscribed to my ancestry for a while so am only going from memory
Many thanks
-
Welcome to RoostChat Alan. Sue hasn't been on RootsChat for several years but with a bit of luck she'll get a notification of your message. No doubt other RootsChat users will be happy to help with your search though.
As for Emily, there's a newspaper item that provides a bit more proof that Vandelo was her father. It also implies her marriage to Mr Carter was before Aug 1862.
There are numerous newspaper items referencing Vandelo Stanley but they may not all be for Emily's father, as at least one refers to Vandelo Stanley the elder. I'll have a dig around and see if I can find anything else re. Emily.
Portsmouth Times and Naval Gazette
09 Aug 1862
City Bench - Monday - Before the Mayor, Dr. Tyacke, W. Gruggen, T H Clark and B Adams. Vandelo Stanley, and Emily Stanley, his daughter, gipsies, were charged with assaulting Mary, wife of Charles Stanley, another of their tribe on Saturday last. Mr Fraser appeared for the complainant. Complainant stated that she was selling beer at Goodwood during the race week, and the defendants kept annoying her. On Saturday she saw the defendants near Mr Light's shop at Eastgate. Complainant went into the shop, and when she came out the defendants were passing by, and she heard Emily say, "I'll knock her eye out if I get six months for it." She shortly afterwards came up and struck her several times in the face. She heard the man Stanley say, "Give it to her Emily." Other witnesses gave corroborative evidence of the assault, and Emily Stanley was fined 10s and 8s costs, and Vandelo Stanley 10s and 10s costs, or in default to be imprisoned for 21 days' each. The fines were paid.
A cross summons had been taken out by Emily Stanley or Carter (Stanley being her maiden name) against Charles Stanley, which was heard at the same Bench. The assault arose out of the same affair, and after hearing the evidence, the mayor said that although they were of opinion that the defendant had not acted properly, nor that he was entirely free from blame in the matter, yet they should dismiss the case and hoped that his tribe in future would live more peaceably.
-
I have also found this reference to Emily Carter
-
Welcome to RoostChat Alan. Sue hasn't been on RootsChat for several years but with a bit of luck she'll get a notification of your message. No doubt other RootsChat users will be happy to help with your search though.
There are numerous newspaper items referencing Vandelo Stanley but they may not all be for Emily's father, as at least one refers to Vandelo Stanley the elder. I'll have a dig around and see if I can find anything else re. Emily.
Hi and thanks for the notification which I was very pleased to receive. I don’t seem to have much time nowadays but I do still pick up the trail.
I will look again at the updates and new info on my big screen when I get a minute. I have found Francis resting place finally, but as in life my elusive GGGranddad’s actual grave wasn't entered in the records.
Lots of other snippets. Be back soon. Best regards Sue
-
Hi Sue
Thanks for getting back to me
I would appreciate any information on Francis and Emily.Have you any info on their siblings as I’m trying to link them to my late nan would have lived on the caravan site in Fulham as a child.Her mother was Edith Thomson when married and light when spinster . I’m trying to link the circus which I believe was called light as she always mentioned it.
Many thanks
-
Regarding the belief that the Stanleys also went by the name Carter, there's some suggestion of this in various newspaper items.
Could this be Emily's father or brother?
Horsham, Petworth, Midhurst and Steyning Express
03 February 1863
Havant
- Vandelo Carter Stanley
- charged with stealing 3 baskets, leather, cloth, pillow tick
- property of Samuel Alfred Pycroft, landlord of Ship Inn, Emsworth
- case dismissed
- Pycroft then charged with stealing wood
- property of London and Brighton Railway Company
Chichester Observer 18 July 1888
Threatened by gipsy
- Vandelo Carter alias Stanley
- gipsy
- summoned for using threatening language towards Alfred Spratt
- Spratt, under bailiff of Chichester County Court
And there's a few that reference a Harry Stanley alias Carter (or vice versa). Could this be Emily's brother?
Petersfield Express 21 January 1879
- Night poaching case
- Henry King and Harry Carter alias Stanley, aged 35
Hampshire Chronicle 04 July 1885
- Harry Stanley alias Carter
- charged with breaking and entering house
There's some associated criminal records for the above, which also have the names Stanley and Carter.
-
Hi my 2xgreat grandmother Lavinia Fanny Everett or so I thought as she was named on her marriage certificate and on birth certificates of her children except one which read Stanley what I thought no wonder I can't find her birth certificate if she is a Stanley I found out her father was a James Stanley who married Mary Ann Eyers who then lived with William Burgess in Bosham Sussex area, now last evening I was directed by Ancestry to Vandelow Stanley as the father of James but I can't see a connection between the 2. I have no idea where to search for gypsy records I have had this brick wall for many many years and mistakes like the one I mentioned moves me on a pace.
-
Hi
I have francis light. he married auguster taylor, she was born a beldom and married jeremiah taylor ..