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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: MOBRIEN on Monday 01 December 08 05:27 GMT (UK)

Title: LOOKING FOR
Post by: MOBRIEN on Monday 01 December 08 05:27 GMT (UK)
HI,
I am trying to find out if anyone has any info on my  G Grandmother,
JULIA CATHERINE ALBRA.
Born 1812 CHELMSFORD ESSEX
Came to Australia, 1834, on the STRATHFIELDSAYE,
In Oct 1836, she married a HENRY HYLAND.

Was trying to find out whether or not she had any children to HYLAND.

MANY THANKS
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: sparrett on Monday 01 December 08 06:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Mobrien,
What state was her destination?
Could you tell us her parents' names.
Where did she marry Hyland?
These areas of informaion may help us to look for her.
Sue
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: cando on Monday 01 December 08 06:05 GMT (UK)
Not in Vic or NSW indexes...Tasmania?

Cando
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: cando on Monday 01 December 08 06:08 GMT (UK)
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=8

Colonial Tasmanian Family Links Detail

HYLAND, HENRY
Gender:    Male
Birth    
Marriage/Relationship:    1837 - HOBART,Tasmania  (  ALBRA, JULIA CATHERINE  ) 

No chn detailed on the database

Cando
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: cando on Monday 01 December 08 06:09 GMT (UK)
duplicated ::) ::)
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: johngirl on Monday 01 December 08 06:21 GMT (UK)
Henry Hyland
Julia Catherine Albra married 9th October 1837 Hobart Reg no. 3472/1837 RDG 36.

Can`t see any children to this couple.

  Johngirl
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: MOBRIEN on Monday 01 December 08 06:49 GMT (UK)
 HI SPARRETT,
THANK YOU FOR REPLY.

JULIA CATHERINE'S PARENTS WERE JOHN & ELIZABETH ALBA, CHELMSFORD ESSEX.
JULIA HAD SPENT SOME TIME IN THE "REFUGE FOR THE DESTITUTE IN HACKNEY, BEFORE BEING DISCHARGED TO HER MOTHER IN KENT,
IN JAN 1831.
THREE YRS LATER JULIA, NOW AGED 21, EMIGRATED TO HOBART TASMANIA, ABOARD THE "STRATHFIELDSAYE.
JULIA WORKED FOR A MRS HAYWOOD OF MACQUARIE PLAINS.
THREE YRS AFTER HER ARRIVAL, ON 9th OCT 1837, JULIA MARRIED HENRY HYLAND, IN HOBART, HAVE MARRIAGE CERT

CAN FIND NO MORE ON HER UNTIL SHE TURNED UP IN SYDNEY AUST,
AFTER WORKING FOR THE "O'BRIEN" FAMILY, GIVING BIRTH TO WHAT I BELIEVE WAS HER ONLY CHILD, b 1847.

MANY THANKS
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: MOBRIEN on Monday 01 December 08 07:45 GMT (UK)

THANKS SO MUCH EVERY-ONE, FIRST TIME ON THIS SITE AND ITS GREAT

MOBRIEN X
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: cando on Monday 01 December 08 07:48 GMT (UK)
Was the birth registered under HYLAND as the only HYLAND birth I can see in 1847 is

V18473996 64/1847     
HYLAND      Luke   
Father Thomas  Mother Ann

and they had two more children, one in 1841 and another in 1849...

Bit puzzling.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: MOBRIEN on Monday 01 December 08 08:40 GMT (UK)
HI CANDO,
NO ....THIS ANCESTOR IS A REAL THORN IN MY SIDE, TO SAY THE LEAST........

HER MARRIAGE TO HENRY HYLAND MUST HAVE JUST BEEN ONE OF CONVIENIENCE, I WOULD THINK, AS WHEN SHE HAD HER SON IN SYDNEY,SHE WAS WITH A GUY NAMED HENRY LUCAS, BUT NOT MARRIED TO..............

ON THE BAPTISM, PARENTS ARE JULIA CATHERINE ALBRA AND HENRY LUCAS.

BABY WAS NAMED , HAROLD HAREFOOT LUCAS.
EDWARD O'BRIEN, WAS NAMED SPONSOR ,GODFATHER, AS I SAID, SHE DID WORK FOR THE O'BRIENS IN SYDNEY PRIOR TO THE BIRTH OF HER BABY.................
THATS ANOTHER, "WHOLE KETTLE OF FISH", would love to know a bit more about that !!!!!

TWO YEARS AFTER HER BABY WAS BORN, JULIA MARRIED TRISTRUM BAXTER,IN N.S.W, I THINK SHE MAY HAVE" FORGOTTEN", SHE WAS STILL MARRIED TO HENRY HYLAND, AS HE DIDN'T DIE , UNTIL 1853, IN HOBART, AGED 40 , 6 YEARS AFTER JULIA HAD HER SON.........

CAN'T SAY THE GIRL WAS BORING  !!!!!! lol

MOBRIEN
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: cando on Monday 01 December 08 08:50 GMT (UK)
Well it  makes for interesting research ;D  I thought after I wrote that post that perhaps the birth had not been transcribed from church records to the NSW bdm site as it was before civil registration.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: MOBRIEN on Monday 01 December 08 09:34 GMT (UK)

Yeah, Thanks mate.
Interesting is not the word I usually use for her !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: ennael on Monday 01 December 08 10:13 GMT (UK)
clarification:
looks like Julia married Tristun in Brisbane.
the following are the 2 references, NSW and QLD.

https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/MarIndexQrySubmit.m

1854/BMA69
Baxter Tristrun
Hyland Julia Catherine

V1849563 34C/1849
 BAXTER  Tristun
 HYLAND  Julia C 
Reg. Dist .  CU 
CU =Church England, Brisbane St Johns, QLD.
www.bdm.nsw.gov.au

Leanne
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: ennael on Monday 01 December 08 10:32 GMT (UK)
www.records.nsw.gov.au
CSreLand
2/7797 1089 BAXTER Tristrim 1849 1849 of Ipswich


Tristam is listed on www.records.nsw.gov.au as arriving per"MIDAS" 1827 as a convict.


Leanne
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: MOBRIEN on Monday 01 December 08 10:48 GMT (UK)
THANX ANNAEL,
AS I SAID......SHE WAS A "VERY INTERESTING LADY"

SHE ACTUALLY MARRIED AGAIN IN 1863, TO A JOSEPH WHITFIELD IN VICTORIA, I BELIEVE TRISTRUM WAS STILL ALIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: cando on Monday 01 December 08 11:43 GMT (UK)
And to complete her story...died in 1901 at Rutherglen.  Do you have her death cert?  Bet it doesn't mention all the husbands ;) ;) ;D ;D

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: MOBRIEN on Monday 01 December 08 20:20 GMT (UK)
Hi CANDO,
No dont have death cert, but did visit her grave last month.

There is another interesting twist to this story, I dont know when it actually happened, but she eventually put, "O'BRIEN", on HAROLDS name, so he was always known as HAROLD HAREFOOT LUCAS O'BRIEN,

I have a few theories on why that would be.....................................
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Thursday 09 January 20 04:02 GMT (UK)
Hi, I am looking for any information on Harold Harefoot Lucas O’Brien, particularly his baptism or birth in NSW and any details about Edward O’Brien who appears to have adopted him.
His mother was Julia Catherine Albra.
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 09 January 20 04:48 GMT (UK)
Hi, I am looking for any information on Harold Harefoot Lucas O’Brien, particularly his baptism or birth in NSW and any details about Edward O’Brien who appears to have adopted him.
His mother was Julia Catherine Albra.

Welcome to Rootschat.

His birth on NSWBDM: 27/1847 V184727 65 LUCAS Harold H parents HENRY and JULIA C

Having the name added doesn’t necessarily indicate adoption.

Jamjar
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Thursday 09 January 20 05:08 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much for such a quick reply.
That’s amazing.
I am told he was adopted but I haven’t found the papers yet.
Do you know anything about the O’Brien family?
And are you related in some way too?
Harold is my great great grandfather I think!
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 09 January 20 05:10 GMT (UK)
No I am not related.

His death in VIC:

5996/1913 OBRIEN Harold Harefott Lucas parents Julia Cath and Obrien Edwd at K Vale aged 66

You can view his will: https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates

He leaves everything to his wife, Selina O’Brien.

I don’t believe formal adoption took place in that era, so it is unlikely there will be ‘papers’.

Jamjar
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 09 January 20 05:21 GMT (UK)
Death of a children:

5153/1879 OBRIEN Isabella Gardiner parents Isabella GARDINER and Harold Harefoot INGLEWOOD aged 17 Days

5538/1885 OBRIEN Edward Harold parents Isabella GARDINER and Harold Harefoot I'WOOD aged 16

Death of 1st wife: 5152/1879 OBRIEN Isabella parents Agnes and Peter GARDENER at DALKEITH spouse OBRIEN, Harold Harefoot Lucas, aged 35

Marriage: 856/1881 NEWTON Selina to OBRIEN Harold

Jamjar
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Thursday 09 January 20 05:31 GMT (UK)
That is great. I will try and access it.
Thanks again.
I can’t believe you can access everything so quickly.
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Thursday 09 January 20 05:37 GMT (UK)
Just on the off chance, any tips for finding out about Henry Lucas? The father?
Or Edward O’Brien the man who Julia worked for?
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 09 January 20 05:40 GMT (UK)
In 1903 Selina and Harold were on the Electoral Roll at Chiltern West in Victoria.

A newspaper sighting in 1906 in the same area
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/200561890

Sue
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 09 January 20 05:48 GMT (UK)
Births VIC:

Mother Isabella

9190/1869 Edward Harold died 5538/1885 16
16876/1871 Agnes Julia married 6613/1891 Leonard RHODES
3067/1875 William Aldolphus (maybe)
3342/1877 Harold Joseph died as Joseph 1881/1877 4mths
9781/1878 Joseph 5611/1878 has aged 4 (likely months). (Mother’s full name Isabella Allison Wilson Dixon)
10036/1879 Isabella Gardiner died 5153/1879 17 days

Mother Selina
24270/1881 Harold
24261/1883 Selina Alice married 108/1909 John FARRIES died 5088/1946 aged 64 Death and funeral notices, 2nd and 7th columns: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article206100467
17584/1890 Elizabeth Albra died 9763/1890 2 Days
16639/1893 Percy Albra married 1716/1914 Alma Lilian BRAUMANN and 8478/1926 Vera GRAHAM died 3227/1966 aged 72

Second marriage and death for Selina Snr:

9270/1916 Selina OBRIEN to Antonio NIOA

16298/1944 Selina Frances Nioa mother Margaret NESBIT father John NEWTON at BENDIGO age 80

Jamjar
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Thursday 09 January 20 05:58 GMT (UK)
Thank you everyone. I can’t believe how helpful you all are.
Bless you
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 09 January 20 06:27 GMT (UK)

Mother Selina
24270/1881 Harold
24261/1883 Selina Alice married 108/1909 John FARRIES died 5088/1946 aged 64
17584/1890 Elizabeth Albra died 9763/1890 2 Days
16639/1893 Percy Albra died 3227/1966 aged 72

Jamjar

And little Eva

Eva Obrien
Birth   1895
At Raglan, Victoria
Reg 6842
Parents Harold Harefoot Obrien,
Sellna (sic) Frances Newton

Selina Alice and young Harold were born at Inglewood in Victoria.

1872
Perhaps this unfortunate story relates to Selina Frances NEWTON as a child
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220448503 31
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 09 January 20 06:45 GMT (UK)
NO’Brien
Have you downloaded the marriage certificate of Harold OBRIEN and Selina NEWTON the indexing for which has been given here?

There will be information given by the parties themselves about parents, places and dates.
As Harold has used his mother's maiden name in the naming of his children, he seems quite informed of his early life.

It would be interesting and possibly helpful to see that information.

Sue

Here is an In Memoriam placed by Selina in 1914

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/121006506
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 09 January 20 06:56 GMT (UK)
I’ve added to Reply #25.

NO’Brien how are you connected to this tree?

Jamjar
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Thursday 09 January 20 08:29 GMT (UK)
I will try and download the marriage certificate. I have had trouble finding the will of Harold.

My connection is that Harold Harefoot is my great great grandfather. He had a son William Adolphus who was the father of my grandfather Gordon Alexander O’Brien.  I am only just finding out these details for the first time.
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 09 January 20 08:51 GMT (UK)
For the will just put in his first and last name, and year of death. Click on his name and then on ‘view’. It will download, very slowly.

https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates

That’s interesting, I couldn’t find a death for William Aldolphus, when I looked.

Jamjar

Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Thursday 09 January 20 09:04 GMT (UK)
I am also looking for any information about an Edward O’Brien, editor, in Inglewood, Gladstone Area in Victoria in 1850-1869 approx.
I understand he took Harold Harefoot Lucas in and “adopted” him. They both worked on a local paper there.
I haven’t been able to find anything about him so far.
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 09 January 20 09:05 GMT (UK)
Also interesting is that on the birth registration Isabell’s maiden name is listed as Gordon and also is 1875 there is a death for 7180/1875 Millicent Isabell Obrien, aged 1, with mother mn as Isabell GORDON.

Jamjar

Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Thursday 09 January 20 09:06 GMT (UK)
William Adolphus died in Adelaide. He had travelled to Perth got married to a woman named Annie Rumble and then moved to Adelaide.
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 09 January 20 09:08 GMT (UK)
William Adolphus died in Adelaide. He had travelled to Perth got married to a woman named Annie Rumble and then moved to Adelaide.

Ah, good to know.

Jamjar
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Thursday 09 January 20 09:09 GMT (UK)
I saw that. I am trying to work out why the name Gordon and whether it was a mistake or there was another husband?
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: Jamjar on Thursday 09 January 20 09:10 GMT (UK)
Reading through the original thread, I thought that it was saying that the mentioned Edward O’Brien was in Sydney, not Victoria.

Jamjar
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Thursday 09 January 20 10:13 GMT (UK)
Yes. He was in Sydney and then moved to Inglewood,Victoria. He appears to have taken Harold Harefoot with him. That is where Harold Harefoot married Isabella (Gordon/Gardiner).
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 09 January 20 21:44 GMT (UK)
I will try and download the marriage certificate. I have had trouble finding the will of Harold.

My connection is that Harold Harefoot is my great great grandfather. He had a son William Adolphus who was the father of my grandfather Gordon Alexander O’Brien.  I am only just finding out these details for the first time.

As the relationship between yourself and Harold Harefoot is one of direct descendancy, I would be making this certificate purchase and download.
 
It is really important that you build your family history on solid documentary evidence as far as possible so future generations are not misled and misinformed ;D

This is the information you would expect to find on a Victorian marriage certificate of that time. It is given to the officiating clergy by the parties themselves.  The witnesses shown on the document may also be of interest.

Date
Couple's names
Couple's ages
Couple's birthplaces
Previous status
Couple's occupations
Couple's residences
Fathers' names
Fathers' occupations
Groom's mothers name
Bride's mothers name

If you need tips on negotiating the website for purchase just let us know.
Start here
https://my.rio.bdm.vic.gov.au/efamily-history/5d6dfc67bca8ba230775bf7b

Sue

 
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: sparrett on Friday 10 January 20 03:22 GMT (UK)
Births VIC:

Mother Isabella

9190/1869 Edward Harold died 5538/1885 16
16876/1871 Agnes Julia married 6613/1891 Leonard RHODES
3067/1875 William Aldolphus (maybe)
3342/1877 Harold Joseph died as Joseph 1881/1877 4mths
9781/1878 Joseph 5611/1878 has aged 4 (likely months). (Mother’s full name Isabella Allison Wilson Dixon)
10036/1879 Isabella Gardiner died 5153/1879 17 days


Jamjar

Six births were registerd to the couple are noted above
 
And as also noted, there were two births of children with the name Joseph.
 

OBRIEN, Harold Joseph
F. Harold M. Isabella GARDINER
At Inglewood 1877/3342

OBRIEN, Joseph
F. Harold M. Isabella GARDINER
At Ingl 1878#10036

 
Here are their deaths
OBRIEN, Joseph Whitfield (Harold’s mother had married Joseph WHITFIELD)
F. Harold Haref M. Isabella Alison Wilson Dixon GARDINER
Age 4 m. Born at   Inglewod
1877#1881

OBRIEN Joseph
F. Harold LOCOU M. Isabella GARDINER
Aged 4 w. Born at   Ingl
1878#5611

Death of Isabella as given previously,
OBRIEN, Isabella F. Peter GARDENER. M. Agnes Unk. Born at Dalkeith 1879#5153
And
OBRIEN,Isabella Gardiner F. Harold Harefoot M. Isabella GARDINER Aged 17 d. Born at  Inglewood
1879#5153

You will note that the reg numbers for the index of mother Isabella and daughter Isabella are consecutive, so certificates were written at the same time.

Sue
ADDING
Also noteworthy another instance of Isabella using th surname GORDON in the the death record of this child.

OBRIEN, Millicent Isabell.
F. Harold M. Isabella GORDON.
Aged 1 year. Born at  Ingl
1875/*7180

Her birth
OBRIEN, Millicent Isabella
F. Harld. M. Isabella GARDENER
At Inglewood 1873 24595

That makes seven births!
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: majm on Friday 10 January 20 03:29 GMT (UK)
I wonder if both (the 1879 d.c.s) would be on the same pdf ...  #5152 and #5153 ...   

JM
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Friday 10 January 20 03:30 GMT (UK)
That is so helpful.
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: sparrett on Friday 10 January 20 03:35 GMT (UK)
I wonder if both (the 1879 d.c.s) would be on the same pdf ...  #5152 and #5153 ...   

JM

OOOh! That would be a saving ;D
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Friday 10 January 20 03:39 GMT (UK)
Yes it would. It is costly by the time you pay for all the certificates!
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: sparrett on Friday 10 January 20 04:11 GMT (UK)
I fear you will not make good progress with accurate information without some financial outlay.
The public record is limited.

Of course these things are your own decision.

Sue
Title: Re: LOOKING FOR
Post by: NO’Brien on Saturday 11 January 20 10:20 GMT (UK)
Thanks. Yes  I have been obtaining official records as I go. But I have hit the wall with Edward O’Brien in Inglewood.