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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lincolnshire Lookup Requests => Lincolnshire => England => Lincolnshire Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Glen in Tinsel Kni on Saturday 17 January 09 11:15 GMT (UK)
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Morning all.
I don't usually have a brickwall but this little problem has been my undoing for three years now, it's research into my birth family on my paternal line and i'm really at a loss as to where to look next;
The partners in this genealogical crime are John Townsend and Annie Turner, did they ever marry? Where are they from? When where they born? All this (and more) still to be uncovered.
1919, Lincoln;
Birth of John Townsend to John Townsend and Annie Townsend, formerly Turner.
1923, Lincoln;
Birth of James Townsend, 12/05/1923, parents as above.
1925, Lincoln
Birth and death of Joseph Townsend, parents as above.
1945, Middlesborough
Marriage of James Townsend, residence Newland St West, Lincoln, father noted as John Townsend, deceased.
1984, Worksop
Death of James Townsend or Turner dob 12/05/1923, informant John Townsend, brother, resident in Lincoln.
The 1921-1927 voters roll show John snr and Annie living together in Lincoln at the address shown on the birth certs, 1928 onwards John snr appears to be alone, 1929 he is living elsewhere and the address is unknown, Annie has vanished too.
Post 1928 is a mystery, a rumour suggests Annie lived with another man, the only document after 1928 to hint at anything is a marriage cert for James in 1945 which states his father is deceased and the death cert mentioned above.
I haven't been able to pinpoint a Townsend/Turner marriage, James was a ladies man and had kids all over the country but his death cert entry seems to suggest that either his parents were not married (or was he possibly using both names to avoid his whereabouts being discovered by the mothers of his children?)
I had a search on the 1911 for John and Annie, the only John in Lincoln who is old enough is listed in an institution, there are 3 possibles for Annie but i haven't gone down the route of looking at images. I suspect John and Annie were not together in 1911 so i doubt the expense will answer the question. Expanding the search to Lincolnshire just compounds the problem and there is no gaurantee that Lincolnshire plays a part anyway.
The only other clue is the surname Goddard connected to a fleet of lorries in Lincoln but that may be before and/or after WWII.
So what next? What do i try (bearing in mind i no longer have an Ancestry sub), the 1911 doesn't look helpful because i know so little about them, no age or pob so the result could be top of the list but i wouldn't know.
Any suggestions or snippets from anywhere please?
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Sorry, slight correction
The 1945 marriage cert shows the residence of James to be 13 Newport, Lincoln.
Witness #2 G. Goddard
The 1930 Kellys shows a Miss Townsend resident at Newport Manor, Newport, Lincoln. Maybe just a co-incedence?
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A single point (before I try looking anywhere else) ... you say Annie was on the Electoral list in 1921 - women had to be aged 30 or more to have the vote in those days.
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Hi Geoff
I thought that a little strange but the listing for the address (6 Nixons Court) has some notes about "qualification to vote through occupation".
The 1920's certs refer to John Townsend (father) as a labourer, the 1945 marriage cert refer to him as a bricklayer.
All i can say for definate is that the address from the 1920's certs and the early/mid 1920's register i viewed at Lincoln library match up the names to the address until 1927.
There is a death for an Annie Turner aged 42 in Stamford March qtr 1927,
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The 1930 Kellys shows a Miss Townsend resident at Newport Manor, Newport, Lincoln. Maybe just a co-incedence?
1933 shows Misses A.A.S and E.M TOWNSEND living there - they surely will be findable in 1901 or earlier.
Yes, I saw the Stamford death. As James's death was under both names, I suspect they never married (each other!)
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The death entry makes me suspect there was never a marriage too if i'm honest.
It's really frustrating though because James had twelve children that i know of, born to 6 different women between 1947 and 1966 in several areas of the country. I'm #12, but there might be others!!
I have managed to meet with six of them (including a half brother who thanks to modern medacal techniques is now my half sister). I can crack that little mystery but trip up with my grandparents.
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I don't think 13 Newport was anything remarkable (the home of a Labourer in 1901) - the "Turks Head" was No 17 and is the building on the (north side) corner of Cecil St http://tinyurl.com/7skygx so 13 would have been south of Cecil St. I haven't (as yet) found out where Newport Manor was.
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When James married in 1945 he was in the Royal Signals, 13 Newport is the addy noted on the cert. The marriage took place in Middlesborough and he stayed in Middlesborough for two maybe three years.
I might get in touch with Lincoln library and ask for a search of the electoral roll for the years after the war just to see what surnames are connected to the property. Pre war James was to young to vote but that doesn't mean the house isn't connected to the family so it might be worth checking the 1930's entries too. Anything showing a Townsend, Turner or Goddard reference would be interesting, there may not be anything but if that is the case at least it eliminates the address for the years searched.
The 1920's results and the birth certs match for dates and addresses, there is also a burial for Joseph Townsend aged 0 in 1925 (St Swithins), this also tallies up nicely with the Nixons Court address too.
All pieces in a puzzle without a picture as usual.
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All pieces in a puzzle without a picture as usual.
Without a picture, you don't know how many pieces there are!
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True Geoff
Maybe i might find a few blue sky and a few sunset pieces and know they belong to different pictures :)
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I don't think 13 Newport was anything remarkable ................
I have found out that in 1946 the address was occupied by Mrs Goddard, so it's definatley a case of checking the pre and post war occupants for starters. It's too much to ask for Mrs Goddard to have lived her days out there but it might point to dates for a death ref somewhere.
I have also found two birth refs (surname Goddard, mmn Turner) during the 1930's in Lincoln, i have sent for one of them direct from Lincoln.
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Just an update
The birth cert arrived and the mother was indeed Annie Turner, no mention of the Townsend name anywhere and an address on Monks Road but it is her. The 13 Newport address does come into things but it factors in after all the children were born.
She never did marry John Townsend but had been married previously, i managed to trace a grandson through Ancestry who has given me a brief outline of the life Annie led, the abandoned children, the lies on certificates, the 2nd marriage that wasn't and the one that was, numerous children by the different men in her life and their former wives, the addresses involved etc.
There is heaps to come from the contact including many photographs, including several of my birth father at various times.
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Hi Glen
Glad you found out, even if it was pretty boring! ;)
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Oh i forgot to mention the 7 new half aunts and uncles and the dozens of new half cousins plus the Italian connection.
It's all pretty dull really ;D
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Oh i forgot to mention the 7 new half aunts and uncles
They should go well with "a half brother who thanks to modern medical techniques is now my half sister". :D
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Hi Glen,
I found your posts REALLY interesting. I'm a newbie on this site and found you indirectly through a google search on another aspect of my family. Just to complicate things a little further.................
the very same James Townsend is my father and I am the 2nd born of 6 children within 'this family' - ifthis makes sense?! Only 2 days ago I found a half-sister in Northants and find all this quite surprising!
I can help with further info but feel my brother (in Hampshire) has more info than I, he also attended the funeral of James. We can probably shed a light on some of your blind alleys as there are strong connections to both Yorkshire and Lincolnshire.
I still live in Lincoln, are you in Scotland?
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Christine,
yes as you have probably guessed we are half siblings so "Hello" from your likkle bruvva :)
I have met our half sister in Northants, i used to live just a few miles from her but that was before i started researching my tree, so near and yet so far!! And yes, i now live in the Scottish Borders.
You can also add half neice to your new found family too, (i have a daughter who has just turned 16), she, along with my adoptive family still live in Lincolnshire and i still come "back home" for birthdays and xmas.
You won't be able to use the private message system yet (i think you have to make five posts on roots before it is available to you) but our Northants connection has e-mail, telephone and postal address for me should you want them at any time. For obvious reasons i won't post them here for all to see.
I have a few photographs of Jimmy and a couple of Uncle John but know next to nothing about him. We also share another uncle who died as a youngster in Lincoln in the 1920's, as far as i know there are no photographs of him though.
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Helloooooooooooooo!
Nice to hear from you - I feel quite emotional now!
It was a couple of days age that I googled the name of my mother and found quite old postings from SR (Northants) (unsure about what protocols are for confidentiality!) so I made initial contact and started looking further. I CAN shed some light on the history but, as I spent many years away travelling and most of my siblings are spread far and wide (Lincoln, Lincolnshire, Hampshire, W.Mids and south east) contact has not always been easy but things have changed recently. My younger brother has far more knowledge than I in this area so he could be a valuable source of information.
Can I see the images of father please? I have little more than memories but I believe there are a few photographs of James/Jim/Jimmy around in the family.
Feel like I could go on forever!
Christine.
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My username on the other site is ChristineJT. The other site semms to have many restrictions for me at this time through having just joined/need further verification, time lag or other reason, can't subscribe to threads, post etc. but I'll keep trying though!
I remember grandma (Goddard), she lived in a small terraced house in Occupation Road (off the Westgate end of Burton road) in the early 60's then a flat on/ajacent to Wickenby Crescent (Ermine West near The Lincoln Imp pub).
My parents address at the time of my birth was Cross O' Cliff Hill but the house seems to no longer be there. Later in the 1950's we lived at 55 Rasen Lane prior to moving into a brand New house on Ermine wesT
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Just to update the Rootschatters out there,
the same day Christine added to this thread we swapped messages alomg with contact details. Before the night was out we spent around 3 hours speaking on the phone and comparing notes.
Christine has also put me in contact with her brother and has also spoken with our "Northants" office :). We plan to meet up at some point in the future.