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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: allans on Monday 02 February 09 13:26 GMT (UK)
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Whilst doing some 'housekeepink' on my tree database I came a cross a mistake I made. I wonder if someone can help me out. My tree (latest version) is public on Ancestry or can be viewed at http://www.avalon-family-history.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.html (slightly older - but has same error).
I have
Mary Clarke christened Athelington 22 Mar 1812, parents John and Mary Clarke, married Henry Stone 2 Nov 1830, St Marys Southolt
It is her parents that are the problem on 1851 and 41 Censuses.
The following are linked to my tree on Ancestry:
a) 1851 Southolt John Clarke 64, Mary Clarke 62 and John Sheppard 13
b) 1841 Southolt John Clarke 50, Mary Clarke 50 and Jacob 15
However today I found
c) 1851 Earl Stonham Mary Clarke 65, Jacob 22 which is probably the same family as b) above. This would suggest 2 families with John and Mary Clarke.
However I havent found a) above in 1841
and which is Mary's family -
anyone out there got any suggestions - would appreciate it
Allan
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I have, from IGI
Jacob Clarke of John Clarke and Mary (her maiden name not given)
Birth: 04 MAY 1824, Christening: 16 MAY 1824 Southolt, Suffolk, England
Mary Clerk of John Clerk and Mary (her maiden name not given)
Christening: 22 MAR 1812 Athelington, Suffolk, England
Marriage John Clarke and Mary Vincent, Southolt, 23/1/1809
Marriage John Clarke and Mary Williams, Earl Stonham, 25/8/1818
Mary Clarke, my ancestor, has a son Jacob - names run in the family - perhaps
but which John Clarke and Mary? ???
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Mary Clarke and Henry Stone my gggrandparents on the Stone side. I have marriage notes ,Mar y Clarke of Redlingfield. Perhaps they moved to Redlingfield for a period. I am descended from their third son William. Henry was a shoemaker between 1844 and 1851.
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nice to meet a relative
if you get anywhere sorting out which of these 2 families is the correct one
I would appreciate a heads up
Allan
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IGI does not cover all parishes in the Suffolk area. No redlingfield entries when i last used IGI , some years back. Could the answer be in Redlingfield parish register .
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perhaps - it is certainly worth a look, redlingfield is not in the current IGI so a visit would be required - but if it is what info would there be -
It could be Mary Vincent or Mary Williams and have her parentage - yes.
What is your source for 'Redlingfield' - is it some family documentation?
I hope so because that would be an excellent tie in, and Redlingfield is nearer to Earl Stonham than Fressingfield is to Earl Stonham.
1851 Census
John Clarke and Mary from Fressingfield
Mary Clarke, widow, from Earl Stonham
So perhaps the census entry with Mary from Earl Stonham is the correct one, she is the one with the son Jacob and as I said in an earlier post Henry Stone and Mary Clarke have a son Jacob, perhaps named after Mary's brother Jacob if so this would be Mary Williams - not Mary Vincent as I have at the moments
Without definitive documentation which can tie, without any doubt, Henry's wife Mary
to her mother either Mary Williams or Mary Vincent. wife of John Clarke we are stuck.
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Allans, I have been doing this family history thing for nearly thirty years. Ten years ago a Stone from N Yorks contacted me and we swapped info. haven,t been able to raise him by post or phone for 5 years now, he was quite elderly so might have passed on.
His info was always accurate and obtained via parish register especially Southolt.
I have Henry Stone; born 22 march 1807, bapt 27 march 1807,buried 30 march 1889 all at Southolt. He married Mary Clarke of Redlingfield ,at Southolt, 2 november 1830.
I just thought that if the family were at redlingfield in 1830 they may have been there when Mary was born and baptised....and parents names might have been recorded.
Apart from the N.Yorks relative ,over the years i have only contacted one other in my main family line -Garnham- a sixth cousin, once removed!!
regards, jenny.
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so Redlingfield comes from the Marriage entry in the Southolt register?
I am a comparative youngster at this - only been at it 20 years, 10 years professionally. (rarely get time to work on my tree - always working on someone elses)
Only picked up this problem when linking census images to tree on Ancestry.
About 12 years ago I went to Southolt and Ipswitch records office, and havent worked this line since. In the 51 census Henry Stone lives next to the Plough Inn. The pub is now closed, 12 years ago it was being converted to a house. An old lady was in her garden in what was Henry's house and she showed us through the house. A tiny 2 bedrooms and 2 rooms down stairs. She also told us how she remembered that before the second war they still only had a village pump for water.
I guess another visit to the Ipswitch records is required, check Southolt marriage for reference to Redlingfield and then Redlingfield records.
But that still would not be a sufficient paper trail if this were proof required for inheritance law.
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Allans - I have just come across you exchange of messages regarding the marriage of Henry Stone to Mary Clarke. Through Ancestry I had picked up that henry married a Mary Brunning but your tree with mary Clarke on it seems more likely.
Did you get any further with this?
My link to henry Stone is through his daughter Mary Ann Stone' marriage to John Cattermole and their daughter Mary Sarah marrying my great grandfather Henry Smith.
As an aside I also have traced Henry Smith's mother as Eliza Clarke - Could she be the daughter of Jacob Clarke, who was mary Clarkes brother?
so Redlingfield comes from the Marriage entry in the Southolt register?
I am a comparative youngster at this - only been at it 20 years, 10 years professionally. (rarely get time to work on my tree - always working on someone elses)
Only picked up this problem when linking census images to tree on Ancestry.
About 12 years ago I went to Southolt and Ipswitch records office, and havent worked this line since. In the 51 census Henry Stone lives next to the Plough Inn. The pub is now closed, 12 years ago it was being converted to a house. An old lady was in her garden in what was Henry's house and she showed us through the house. A tiny 2 bedrooms and 2 rooms down stairs. She also told us how she remembered that before the second war they still only had a village pump for water.
I guess another visit to the Ipswitch records is required, check Southolt marriage for reference to Redlingfield and then Redlingfield records.
But that still would not be a sufficient paper trail if this were proof required for inheritance law.
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Nope - this is still a mystery - I havent been to Suffolk for quite a few years and I dont think this can be resolved without looking at parish records. I am happy that, at least for my tree, Henry Stone's marriage to Mary Clarke is correct - I just havent been able to take Mary Clarke back further.
The confusion is due to the the 2 families on the 51 census -
Jacob being a family name (one of the families in the census)
and one of the Clarke families has a Jacob
but
Henry and Mary Stone have a daughter Harriet who marries George Read.
Georeg Read's parents are George Read and Louisa Sheppard
and in the 51 census the other Clarke family has a Sheppard.
I havent followed Mary Ann Stones family so cant comment on Henry Smith's mother - sorry
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Thanks anyway - I was planning on going to the area later this year so if I discover any more I will let you know.
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hi there, I have just started researching this family for a friend (she is the 3x great grandaughter of Mary Ann Stone through her son Edward.
Don't know if this has any relevance but one of Edwards sons was called John Vincent which would seem to me to point towards the marriage of John Clark to Mary Vincent in Southolt in 1809.
Any help or am I on the wrong track?
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I have Mary Vincent marrying John Clarke in 1809 as part of my tree.
One of their daughters, Mary Clarke(b.1812) married Henry Stone(b.1811) in 1830, and Mary Anne Stone was born in 1838.
Mary Anne Stone married John Cattermole in 1856 and they are one set of my great great grandparents.
I have not research Mary Vincent's family so would welcome anything you have on her.
I am happy to share other family information if you wish.
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deanneda - I like the 'Vincent' name carried forward - its certainly a strong possibilty. I haven't looked at Mary Ann Stone's (1837) family so hadn't seen her son Edward or his family.
However my preference has been (for quite some time ) John and Mary Ann Vincent, Southolt, rather than John and Mary Willams, Earl Stonham
But - like I said - I haven't worked this line for quite some time.
OH - by the by
The Sheppard family that my wife's line is associated with )see below) - 2 of them are criminals sent to Australia
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As I have only recently started on this tree I'm afraid I don't have a lot to share but anyone is welcome to look at my findings on Ancestry. co. uk. The tree is called Hannah's tree and is public.
I shall certainly keep looking at this topic and will add anything I come up with and will gratefully recieve any help.
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I have had a look at the Southolt parish register to try and help with this thread but not sure if it will help at all.
Baptisms of children of John and Mary Clarke (John = a shoemaker)
None that I could see between 1809 and 1816
John baptised 13th Oct 1816 - 10 weeks old
Sarah baptised 18th June 1820 - 18 days old
Sarah baptised 16th June 1822 - born May 2? (question mark as in register)
Jacob baptised 16th May 1824 - born 4th May
Also their marriage:
John Clarke bachelor (X)
Mary Vincent spinster (X)
married by banns 23rd Jan 1809
In presence of Deborah Clark and Thomas Vincent
Banns: 8, 15 and 22 Jan 1809
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thank you for your help with this. I will do a comparison this evening.
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Thanks for the Southolt info - however I have to ask - how do we know that this is John Clarke and Mary Vincent and NOT John Clarke and Mary Williams (the other family) - or even vice-versa.
I have from Athelington PR
Mary Clarke baptised 22 Mar 1812, my wife's ancestor.
My problem is that the PR doesnt tell us her MMN - so is her mother Mary Williams or Mary Vincent?
The following should show where the confusion arises
The following census entries point to 2 John Clarkes, both married to Mary, both shoemakers.!!!!
1841 Southolt census
John Clarke 50, Shoemaker
Mary Clarke, 50
Jacob Clarke, 15
1851 Earl Stonham -
Mary Clarke, Head,65, Widow, Earl Stonham
Jacob Clarke, son, 22, Ag Lab, Earl Stonham.
1851 census Southolt
John Clarke, Head, 64, Shoemaker, Kenton
Mary Clarke, wife, 62, shoemakers wife, Fressingfield
1861 census Southolt
John Clarke, Head, Wid, 74, Shoemaker, Kenton
Pamela Woolnough, dau,??, 47, Horham
(plus others)
PM me your personal email if you need copies of the census images.
I think the first 2 are 1 family and the second 2 are a different family, and I cannot find the second 2 on the 41.
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Hi allans and deanneda. I'm a new member on here but I may be able to help with your problem. The reason John Clarke isn't on 1841 census is that he died in approx 1834 in Earl Stonham. John and Mary had two sons, Noah born 1821 and Jacob born 1829, both in Earl Stonham. The registration area for Earl Stonham at that time was Bosmere&Claydon, Debenham. My great grandfather was Jacob's son. I hope this helps. All the best Raven62
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Hi Raven62 - thanks for the input. Your reply raises2 issues.
'John died in 1834' is this the husband of Mary Vincent or Mary Williams?
'John and Mary had 2 sons Jacob and Noah' - however 1841 census has Jacob living with John and Mary, presumably his parents. So the John that died is NOT the father of Jacob. Your message implies that the John who died in 1834 is the father of Jacob - but if he is on the 1841 census this cannot be.
Allan
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Hi allans, oops, sorry, I forgot to say John was the husband of Mary Williams (married 25 Aug 1818 at Earl Stonham). Jacob, the son of John and Mary Clarke (nee Williams) of Earl Stonham is on the 1841 census information as being 11 years old (Bosmere & Claydon, Debenham Reg disct). I hope this helps a bit more.
Raven62