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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Huwcyn on Saturday 21 February 09 08:17 GMT (UK)
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My great-grandfather was one of eight children, but I can't find any record that there are many other descendants. In 1881 , the family is listed as living in Liverpool .
Their names are
Arabella S (Or T ) Chambers b 1861 , Llanrwst
Eleanor Chambers b 1846 Caernarfonshire
Emily Chambers b 1853 Dolgellau (Then Dolgelley)
Heber Hamilton Chambers b 1855 Dolgellau (My great grandfather)
George P Chambers b 1858 Denbigh
Walter E Chambers b 1851 Denbigh ?
All 6 children were by now adults,but living at home with their widowed mother.
There were two other children : Hannah Lucy Chambers b 1849 Denbigh (died 1875) and Richard Edwin Chambers b 1847 b Corwen ?
I suspect that none of the girls married, and I suspect that Richard Edwin Chambers had at least one child (Eleanor Myfanwy Chambers) . I wonder if George Chambers or Walter Chambers have descendants ? . Ancestry.co.uk says ' Fosbury family tree ' when I type some names in. How does this help me ? . Is there some way of looking at the 1891 or 1901 census online ?
I notice that someone called 'Eleanor Myfanwy Chambers ' was born in West Derby in 1898.
This was in the same area that my grandfather was born .
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1891 31 Hall Lane, West Derby - all born Wales
Heber H Chambers Head M 36 Stationer &c (Employer) Wales
Elizabeth Wife M 36
Richard P 4
Llewellyn 6 months
Harriette Williams 69
RG12; Piece: 2990; Folio 50; Page 12
Heber Hamilton Chambers married Elizabeth Williams Q3 1885 West Derby 8b 833, Register Office or Registrar Attended so possibly a marriage in a Catholic church?
If you wanted to order the marriage certificate you could do this online at www.gro.gov.uk using the references I've given.
I wonder if Harriette was Elizabeth's mother?
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1901 31 Hall Lane, West Derby
Heber Hamilton Chambers Head Widr 46 Book Seller (own account) (at home) Wales Dolgelly
Arthur son 13 Lancs Liverpool
Llewellyn son 10 " "
Emily Sis S 47 Wales Dolgelly
RG13; Piece: 3494; Folio: 35; Page: 11
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Arabella Tryphena Chambers married Robert Salisbury Williams 1887 West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended registered in Q1 1888 West Derby 8b page is either 653 or 663, both images are a touch unclear.
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I think they moved northwards and then south
1891
8 Pleasant Place? Preston St John
Robt Williams Head M 27 Time Keeper in Docks Flintshire Mostyn
Arabilla Wife M 29 Llanrust
Robt Percival son 3 Liverpool
RG12; Piece: 3440; Folio 121; Page 11
1901
28 Empress Road, West Derby
Robert S Williams Head M 37 Engineer Mostyn N Wales
Arabella S Wife M 40 Llanrwst N "
Robert P son 12 Lancashire
Edith daur 6 Prest Lancashire
Bettie L daur 4 London Marylebone
Norman son 3 " "
Jane daur 1 London Willesden Green
RG13; Piece: 3494; Folio: 108; Page: 37
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It's possible that Eleanor married Hugh Pugh in 1884 but at present I can't find them in later censuses to check this out.
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Trying to find them earlier to pinpoint more birthplaces, at present I don't see them in 1871 but this is 1861
Penisardre Chapel House, Llanrwst, Denbighshire
John R Chambers Head M 48 Wesleyan Minister of Horel? Chapel Middlesex London
Eleanor Wife M 45 Flint Mold
Eleanor daur 15 Carnarvon Pwllheli
Hannah L daur 12 Denbigh Llanrwst
Emily daur 8 Merioneth Dolgelly
Heber H son 6 " "
George P son 3 Denbigh Denbigh
Arabella S/T? 2 months " Llanrwst
RG9; Piece: 4303; Folio: 43; Page: 32
Where did you get the details of Richard?
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Dear me ! Thank you very much indeed. Some very interesting facts there. People seemed to move around an awful lot. My father always told me that Arabella never married, and we always joked that the name was something of a hindrance ( Heber Hamilton Chambers and Arabella Tryphena Chambers being somewhat bizarre names in a Welsh-speaking family ) . My family would have got married in a Wesleyan chapel, as their father was a minister . Llewelyn was my grandfather, and Harriet was indeed his grandmother. I wonder who the Richard P was. My grandfather had an elder brother called Arthur Hamilton Chambers , who'd be of a similar age ? . Can you tell me how to view the information, please ?
Thank you very much indeed again .Richard is to be seen in the 1851 census, when the family were living in West Derby. Wesleyan ministers got moved every 2 years .
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Ancestry.co.uk says ' Fosbury family tree ' when I type some names in. How does this help me ? .
It doesn't unless we can recreate the search you did and find this person who submitted the tree and then you could make contact. Eleanor Myfanwy Chambers doesn't produce a result so when you "type some names in" I'm lost as to which ones you have entered to find it.
I suspect that none of the girls married,
Hopefully that marriage is correct so we may have disposed of any myths. People tend to make assumptions without evidence.
I notice that someone called 'Eleanor Myfanwy Chambers ' was born in West Derby in 1898.
This was in the same area that my grandfather was born .
"West Derby" when found in the birth indexes, does not mean a town or village, although it is also a village, but in this case is a registration district that encompasses a huge area of Liverpool and surroundings.
I have discovered an Eleanor Chambers born that date living in the Liverpool area in the 1901 census with her parents David and Sarah. I have no evidence that this Eleanor is actually the Eleanor Myfanwy that you found, if you believe that one is the daughter of Richard then the only way to confirm this is by ordering the birth certificate, on the site I gave above.
When I mentioned that the above marriages might have been in a Catholic Church, this was before I realised that their father was a Wesleyan Minister. The presence of a Registrar was probably also necessary in a Wesleyan Chapel in LIverpool, their marriages may have taken place in one of those in the LIverpool area. You might find some possible Churches here http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Liverpool/churches1902.html
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You can view the censuses at www.ancestry.co.uk or http://www.findmypast.com/home.jsp
You would need a subscription to either site to do this, although I've quoted as carefully as I can what you would find on the images.
Maybe your father got mixed up, it looks like Emily was the sister who didn't marry, living with Heber in the 1901 census. The only way to be sure about Arabella is if you get the marriage cert and check her father's name and occupation.
Yes Arthur was there on the 1901 census, see my posting above, perhaps the middle initial was badly written and it should be Arthur Richard/Richard Arthur .... doesn't make sense with the middle name of Hamilton though does it?
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I will quote the 1851 census here to clarify
13 Elm Grove, West Derby (transcribed Chamberg)
John Richd Chambers Head M 38 Wesleyan Minister Lpool Middlesex London
Eleanor Wife 33 Wales Flintshire
Eleanor 5 Scholar Wales Carnarfon
Richd E 4 Wales Merionethshire
Hannah Lucy 2 Wales Denbighshire
Jane Davies Servant U 20 General Servant Wales Denbighshire
HO107; Piece: 2192; Folio: 374; Page: 30
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Death of Hannah Lucy Chambers Q1 1875 West Derby 8b 399 age 25.
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If I remember, typing Hannah Lucy Chambers produced the 'Fosbury family tree' .
Thanks again, though. I'll try and view the 1901 census.
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Now I realise that they moved about with his job, I widened the search in 1871
7 Eaton Road, St Mary Cheshire
Eleanor Chambers Head W 54 Lodging House Keeper Flintshire Celean?
Eleanor daur Unm 25 Carnarvonshire Pwllheli
Richard son Unm 24 Draper's Assistant Merionethshire Corwen
Hannah L daur Unm 21 Domestic Servant Denbighshire Llanrwst
Walter E son Unm 20 No occupation Lancashire Liverpool
Heber H son Unm 16 Book Seller's Assistant Merionethshire Dolgelly
Arabella T daur 11 Scholar Denbighshire Llanrwst
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William G Gregg Lodger Unm 26 Traveller Lancashire Liverpool
RG10; Piece: 3725; Folio: 53; Page: 13
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The Fosbury Family Tree has 12 Chambers, they are your family.
Two without dates include Elizabeth and Len Chambers, parents Arthur Hamilton Chambers 1888-1961 and Celina Frances Dopp 1889-1973.
I'll send a contact to the tree owner and ask them to view this thread.
It's a Robyn Fosbury who seems to update the tree regularly, last logged on this week, so hopefully they will get the message and respond to you on here, although I do believe you now have more information than they do about ancestors, as Richard was missing from his tree.
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Possible death for
Eleanor Chambers Q2 1885 West Derby 8b 240 age 68
The only one I see giving the full name of John Richard Chambers in the right timeframe is Q2 1864 Newcastle in Emlyn (Cardiganshire/Carmarthenshire/Pembrokeshire) 11b 20 - no age given.
Walter Edward Chambers Q1 1883 West Derby 8b 352 age 31.
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The Fosbury link must have been set up by a relative of my grandfather's brother.
He emigrated to Canada a century ago. I'm in contact with his (Canadian) grandson, so the Fosbury link might be from a cousin/nephew of his.
Thank you very much for your efforts. All this in a morning !
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The Len is 'Llew' (for Llewelyn ) ! .His widow died only last month, coincidentally .
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I now reckon the 'Richard P. ' in my grandfather's household must have been Percy Chambers , a cousin of my grandfather's . He was Myfanwy Chambers's brother. I think he was unmarried/childless as well. (Myfanwy Chambers lived until she was virtually 106 - also childless !) . There seems a possibility that Eleanor Chambers (The youngest) died childless, given her marrying age. I wonder what happened to Emily Chambers and George Chambers, though .
All the others now seem accounted for.
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The 1911 census is online, pay per view, where you should find Heber, Arthur, Llewelyn and also Heber's sister Emily.
You can search the death indexes at any Records Office, also many libraries in England have free access to Ancestry.com where you would need to search the section "Marriage and Death Index ranges & Images 1837-1983" quarter by quarter until you find Emily.
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I wonder what happened to Emily Chambers and George Chambers, though .
That sounds like a hint, although I did have to go out.
I wonder if George may have gone to Preston with sister Arabella, not so many of the family were left in LIverpool after the death of his mother
There is a death for a George Percival Chambers Q4 1893 Preston 8e 474 age 36.
He should be on the 1891 census but I can't find him.
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Thank you again-I was only thinking aloud ! .
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Re post # 14
My Name is David Hamilton Chambers and Arthur Hamilton Chambers born Lanchire England in 1888 and passed in 1961 Toronto Canada is my grandfather. Celina Frances Dopp born 1889 and passed in 1973 is my Grandmother My father Llewellyn Hamilton Chambers son of Arthur is my dad. I am new to this chat and roots but would put this information forward . I believe huw is one of the people on this discussion here Mary A and is my distant cousin. Correct if I am wrong. So anthing you need to know this side of the pond ask away as I have been doing some family tree info for the last year or so and am truly enjoying it.
Cheers
Dave
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Hello Huwcyn,
I am sorry but your PM to D H Chambers has bounced back to us because his email address is no longer working.
Please note that as a member with only 1 post he would have been unable to reply to you until he had made a couple of posts.
Regards
Sarah
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That's fine - as things turned out he contacted me soon afterwards in any case.