RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Denbighshire => Wales => Denbighshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Valley on Sunday 01 March 09 12:46 GMT (UK)
-
Hi
I was hoping somebody may be able to help with this
John Williams born 1834/5 Wrexham Denbigshire he married Sarah Leonard in Liverpool 1857 before sailing to Australia where there fist son was born 1859. I have birth cert from Australia states they were born Ruabon? The son was called John Isaac
I have tried the 1841 cencus but I cant find him and would love to know who his parents were
Sarah Leonard also Ruabon 1839/ 40 also cant seem to find her or her family on 1841 cencus
Any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Val
-
Hi Val :)
The 1841 census for the Wrexham area (including Ruabon) is missing so if they are in the area in 1841, you won't find them. We all have this problem with our lines here :(
I'll check the Ruabon parish registers for you but John Williams is not that unusual. It might be that you have to get the marriage cert of 1857 to find a father's name for him
Sarah Leonard should be easier - unless the family were non-conformist :-\
Gadget
-
Theres only 1 in Wales that matches in Panteague Monmouthshire
Sarah Leonard 2
father John 40 forge man not born in county
Mary 35 wife from county
William 17
Eliza 14
Theophilus 12
Sarah 2
address Lower Place
HO107 0749 fol 21 p 36
On 51 same family mother Mary Ann and Sarah D Leonard
-
HI
The North Wales BMD has only one Sarah - 1838, Ruabon Sub-district
GRO index is Dec Q, 1838, Wrexham vol 27 page 242
There is only one baptism entry for a Sarah at St Johns, Rhosymedre (which was part of Ruabon Parish until 1844) . It's a bit later but it might be a possible late baptism:
23 Sept 1845 d/o Thomas Leonard (mill manager) and Margaret. Abode - Acrefair
If this isn't a late baptism, the family could be non-conformist and not show in the parish records.
Gadget
-
The best I can do for you for John Williams are these baptisms - St Mary's, Ruabon
18 May 1834 John Philip s/o John Williams (sadler) and Margaret. Abode - Rhosymedre
29 Nov 1835 John s/o John Williams (labourer) and Harriet. Abode - Plas yn Fron
I think the 1857 marriage cert might be the only way of making sure of the parents' details.
Regards
Gadget
-
Hi
Thanks for info I was just looking at a few bits and bobs and found they 1841 is missing thats why maybe I could not find them.
I have found a marriage in Liverpool for Sarah Leonard but no John Williams JFM Qtr 1838 8b 246 but dont think this is her. Just going to try freeBMD
Val
-
Hi Val :)
I thought you said Sarah was b,. Ruabon not Liverpool
I gave the GRO ref for Sarah, b. Ruabon in 1838 in my previous message (Reply #3) ???
Gadget
-
Opps got my dates wrong
-
Hi
they married in Liverpool before sailing to Australia in 1858 /9 both born in Ruabon dont know why they married in Liverpool I had my dates mixed up for marriage in last mail
-
Not sure if you've seen this on the 1851 - HO107/2175 F 328 P 7
Sarah, aged 13, a visitor in the home of Edward Rodgers and family in Birkenhead.
The index has her b. Runton but the image could well be Ruabon or a badly copied one! This would fit with the 1838 birth reg. that I found earlier.
Gadget
-
Hi Gadget
Thanks for that Birkenhead - Liverpool I will look at that a bit closer.
I Know there are a lot of John Williams I was a while ago reaserching a John Williams from Wrexham area but no relation to each other. My John was a stonemason/builder when he married Sarah and that was his ocupation in Australia, they stayed 10 yrs to help buid Balarat Victoria into a town. I beleive it was the gold mining area.
Val
-
Hi Val
Although John Williams isn't on the FreeBMD marriage index with Sarah, I've just checked the full GRO listing and he's there as a match for Sarah
March q, 1858, Liverpool v 8b page 246
Gadget
-
Hi
Thanks will send for the cert will tell us a little more I will do that now. That is the one I found but wasnt sure
Regards
Val
-
HI Val
I think that's the only way with John Williams :-\
When you get the cert., do get back with the fathers' names and occupations. As I said, I do have access to the Ruabon and Rhosymedre registers (and those of other parishes in the area) and, if the family were Ruabon based, I can have a good look for them :)
Regards
Gadget
-
Hi
Thanks Gadget I will do should be here by end of week maybe or monday latest as there is a weekend.
As soon as arrives I will be in touch
Regards
Val
-
Hi Vall
My great grandfather was John Isaac Williams. he was born in Ballarat, Victoria Australia. His mother was Sarah Leonard and his father was John Williams.
They both came from Ruabon .
Sarah's Mum and Dad where Thomas Leonard and Anne Jones.
John's details have been a little more difficult to obtain and with the help of a professional it seems his family actually came from Chirk. His mum and dad being Sarah and John too.
Are you related to them too?
I would love to share more :)
Cheers Feathertail
-
Welcome to Rootschat, Feathertail :)
Now if you'd have waited, you might have not needed the professional as I have all the Chirk records :)
Gadget
PS - I've also got a Williams connection in Chirk but it's probably a different family
-
Hi
if it is the same family they are my late husbands family and my daughter wanted me to try to trace the williams family for her as I am only williams by Marrige. I got them down to Surrey and John Isaac was a builder contractor one of his sons Leoplold williams was my daughters GG Grandfather, I dont know how much you know if you PM me I will forward on what I have.
Val
-
Hi Gadget
Re you comment about Chirk Records John Williams c1804 Married Sarah Roberts also of chirk Green 1826 Sarah Roberts was born c1804. We know her mother was Mary Roberts but not her father I cant find a marriage.
Also stuck with John Williams 1804 who his parents were we are sure he had a brother called Isaac c1804 all state from Chirk any possibily of some help with this please.
Regards and
Happy Easter
Val
-
Hi Val
ARe these a different family?
If Sarah Roberts' mother was Mary Roberts, it might well be that Mary wasn't married.
If I get time, I'll check later today to see if my records have them. Otherwise it will have to be in a week's time. I'm pretty busy at the moment.
Did you get the marriage cert :
March q, 1858, Liverpool v 8b page 246
Gadget
-
Hi
No same famly John Williams born c1804 was John Isaac 1859 Ballarat Grandfather he married a girl called Sarah Roberts in c1826 at Chirk Green. We know the mother was Mary Roberts as she was listed as on 1851 Wales cencus as 76 a widow living with John and Sarah. John and Sarah had 8 children including John Williams who married Sarah Leonard and father and mother of John Isaac Williams who married Elizabeth Sharpe. Did not need cert in the end as all fell into place with a bit of help from feathertail who had a lot of info and as myself had and all matched up. We are stuck with John Williams and Sarah Roberts though.
Also have you heard of a Bron Heilick Hall near Chirk as this was said to have belonged to the Williams Family.
Thanks
Val
-
No Hall by that name in the Chirk area - do you mean Brynkinallt?
Gadget
-
Hi
It could be but in document I have its written as I have it but that could be wrong. It was a large old Regency building up a long drive.
Val
-
It is likely to be Brynkinalt, although it is older than Regency. Apart from Chirk Castle and New Hall, there aren't any other buildings in Chirk which match your description.
I was born and grew up in the area for the first 18 years of my life and visited my parents regularly until my mother died 10 years ago.
It was owned by the Trevors:
http://www.brynkinalt.co.uk/the_estate/the_hall.html
Gadget
-
Hi
Dont think that would have it looks a bit grand for us maybe Will have to gointo this one a bit further just looked at the document and says there was a fire at some point not sure if this burnt down or part of it. still states Bron Heilick
Val
-
Is it possible for you to send me the document - I can PM you my e-mail address.
Gadget
-
Hi
I will scan it for yo but cant do until Tuesday as not got a working printer/scanner at the moment. will have to do at work.
As there were 8 children was just looking to see if I could find a williams / Trevor marriage as there were 7 girls
Elizabeth
Emma
Harriett
Mary
Ann
Eliza and
Jane
Val
-
That's fine - I'm travelling tomorrow. I'll try and take some of my Chirk records with me and be in touch.
Gadget
(I must be mad - this is a holiday week ::) )
-
John Williams (bachelor) and Sarah Roberts (spinster), both of the parish, married in Chirk on 18 November 1826. The witnesses were David Roberts and Elizabeth Lewis.
Gadget
-
John Williams isn't the easiest - there are two possible baptisms:
27 Feb 1823 (born 20th) to Edward and Jane
20 January 1805 (born 6th) to John and Jane
Gadget
-
Sarah Roberts with mother Mary around that time:
21 August 1803 (born 28 July) Sarah Mary Roberts to Robert and Mary
Gadget
-
A possible marriage for Robert Roberts and Mary:
17 July 1802 Robert Roberts and Mary Hughes (both of the parish, both made their mark rather than signing).
Witnesses - Edward price and Hester Evans
Gadget - now I can leave a suitcase behind ;D
-
Hi
Thanks for info much appreciated
we did not go away for this weekend because of trafic on M25
Val
-
Hi Val and Gadget
Thanks for finding out all that information.
Would you know how we can obtain information on properties owned by John Williams in 1868 and who owned the following?
One address was 36 Chirk Village in the 1851 census
202 Cefn Bychan, Ruabon in the 1861 census
He evidently owned a few other houses but had them under a Bond until he had rebuilt a bridge near LLangollen called 'Baeba" Bridge.
Thanks F
-
Hi Feathertail
There might be something in the Denbighshire archives at Ruthin:
http://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/en-gb/DNAP-72BKC8
Do you have the full census refs, please - year ref/piece no. Folio and Page - it's a lot easier to find the properties than having to search from scratch when you already have them.
Gadget