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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: howdee on Friday 20 March 09 11:44 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help with this strange problem please. Details as follows:
A number of branches of the Barter family, moved from Somerset to Glamorgan in the 19th century, mostly to Cardiff, some to Pontypridd. I recently found a branch that I'm sure are related but haven't been able to make the link yet. I found them in the 1891 Census and they also seem to pop up in other census years. unfortunately, I dont have a current sub to Ancestry. com, so can't find parents of JOHN or CHARLOTTE but strangely, none of the family pop up in the 1881 census, I've searched under each name in all counties of England and Wales. I've found several BMD's but no sign in 1881 census. The family are:
John Barter b: 1840 Somerset. (Taunton)
Charlotte b: 1838 " nee Russell (Chard)
Samuel b: 1863 "
Emily A. b: 1870 "
Annie b: 1871 "
Sarah R b: 1874 Cardiff
Elizabeth b: 1877 "
John b: 1879 "
Alfred b: 1883 "
Have I missed something? I'm at a loss.
Any help would be much appreciated
Thanks for looking
Howard
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Tynypark, Whitchurch, Glamorgan
John Barker Head M 40 Carpenter Somerset Atterford
Charlotte Wife M 43 Somerset Buckland St Mary
Fred Son Un 19 Labr Farm " "
Ann daur 10 Scholar Glamorgan Llanishen
Sarah 6 " " "
Elizabeth 4 " "
John son 2 " Whitchurch
RG11; Piece: 5275; Folio: 136; Page: 22
I think the actual birthplaces are crucial when searching, it was the Llanishen and Buckland St Mary from the 1891 censuses that were the clue, but we didn't have that information without looking it up.
You won't find Emily A as part of the family since she is a daughter in law only.
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Hi
Could this person also belong to you
ST Mary's Church Whitchurch cardiff
Headstone reads-
Sacred to the memory of/ my beloved husband HUBERT VIVIAN BARTER/ who died
March 21st 1959/aged 45yrs/ Abide with me.
The only Barter buried in the grave yard.
Cheers cardiff ;)
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Hi Mary A, and Cardiff
Thanks for your information, So they were transcribed as Barker in 1881!
At the moment I'm only able to access Ancestry via our local part time library with a limited time slot so a bit restricted, hence I couldn't get more info. I found the 1891 census shortly before my sesion ended and then looked up other census years at home but can only see that they are there, not being able to view the record. Thanks for taking the time to dig it out.
If anyone could have a look at the 1841/1851 census (Somerset) and find parents names, I would be very grateful. I may then be able to make the link.
Thanks again
Howard
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Hi Howdee
How need to post again on the Somerset board for the earlier censuses - make sure you give them all the info you have !!
;) ;D
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If Arranroots doesn't mind, I'll continue here for a moment since they were still in Wales in 1871 and see where things go after that.
1871 Hill Terrace, Llanishen, Glamorgan (Spellings are as I see them)
John Barter Head M 30 Carpenter Somerset Otlerford?
Charlotte Wife M 33 Somerset Backland
Fred son 9 Scholar " "
Samuel son 7 " " Otlerford
Tom son 4 " " Buckland
Ann daur 4 months Glamorganshire Lanishen
RG10; Piece: 5354; Folio: 24; Page: 2
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1861
Rull Moor, Otterford, Somerset
Wm Richards Head Mar 45 Agr Lab Devon Churchstanton
Eliza daur 10 scholar Somerset Otterford
Caroline daur 8 " " "
John Barker Boarder Un 20 Carpenter Somerset Otterford
RG9; Piece: 1613; Folio: 39; Page: 9
Again he's been transcribed as Barker although I think it's the same John.
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I don't mind - it's just that there are people on Somerset with local records, or access to them, which might add more than just the census records. That was my thinking, anyway!
No reason why another request can't be made on Somerset for any parish records later, it's true.
A ;)
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OK maybe it gets a bit more complicated in 1851 - in-law was often used for "step child"
Otterford, Somerset (transcribed Backer, reads Barker)
William Richards Head Mar 35 Ag Lab Devon Churchstanton
Elizabeth Wife Mar 41 Ag Lab's Wife Devon Churchstanton
Eliza daur 5 months Somerset Otterford
Eli Barker Son in Law 17 Ag Lab Somerset Staple Pitzpaine
Levena " daur in law 13 Nurse maid " "
John " son in law 10 Ag Lab " Somerset
Ann " daur in law 7 " "
HO107; Piece: 1922; Folio: 51; Page: 3
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Thanks A, particularly since they might know if Staple Pitzpaine or Fitzpaine is correct.
M :D
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1841
House Street Cott, Otterford, Somerset
James Barker 33 Ag Lab Yes
Elizabeth 30 No
Eli 7 Yes
Levena 4 Yes
John 1 Yes
HO107; Piece 959; Book: 18; Civil Parish: Otterford; County: Somerset; Enumeration District: 6; Folio: 14; Page: 14
Out of interest, in the next dwelling, apparently boarding, is a William Richards, age 25 Ag Lab, born in County.
I wouldn't like to say whether the family is really Barters or Barkers all through the years, or whether it's changed. Maybe the baptisms/marriage would help decide that point.
It's over to the Devon and Somerset boards for you now.
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Hi
Tynypark Rd is spelled now Tyn-y-Parc Rd
Just incase you wany to look it up on a map.
cheers cardiff ;)
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Hi All
Wow, thanks for all of your effort, much more than I expected. It does look a bit cloudy regarding the true name. There were lots of Barters in the Taunton Somerset area. My grandmother was a Barter, married an Owen, moved to Ynysybwl and never left. I've found other branches that moved to Cardiff and Pontypridd, evan a distant rellie in Ynysybwl, a friend of my Aunt and they never knew they were related. It's all this that made me think there was a link with this Cardiff line. I'll keep digging and thanks again, without your help I'd have been floundering.
Howard.
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Hi
BARTER is the family name and they come mainly from Buckland St Mary, which is near Staple Fitzpaine.
John's father was James BARTER born 1807 Buckland St Mary, who died and mother married William RICHARDS.
John's Mother was Elizabeth HODGE born 1809 Churchstanton.
Email me if you need more information.
Brad
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Hi Brad
Thanks for taking the trouble to post the info. I have lots of refs to the Barters in B St M, there certainly was quite a few of them in the area. My rellie in Ynysybwl visited the Devon & Somerset FHS very recently and got us back a bit further, to Sarah Barter b: about 1729, she appears to have had a couple of children, no husband/ father found.
Re: John's father, James, (1807) I don't have him on my tree so haven't established the link. Do you have a GenesReunited sub? If so I can give you access to my tree, you may tie in somewhere, if not, any info on John or James's surrounding relatives my throw up the connection. I'll PM my email address to you.
Cheers
Howard
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Hi Howard,
Just found your message on RootsChat. The John Barter you are talking about is the brother of my great great grandfather Eli Barter who came to New Zealand in 1860.His parents were James and Elizabeth Hodge. James parents were Henry and Betty Barter. Henry's parents were Jesse and Mary Manning. Jesse's mother was Sarah Barter. I have been in touch with a Alan Denton from your neck of the woods with all this info, he has recently been looking up our relatives. Eli married Ellen Collins from Bucklands St Mary in 1855.
Regards,Helen
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Hi Helen
Thanks for your post. I know Alan Denton, we have swapped info, I also have contacts in Australia and New Zealand, the Barters spread far and wide I have got back to the Mannings. We've just returned from holiday so I'm a bit out of touch, I'll check again but I think I concour with the details you have mentioned.
Regards
Howard
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Nice to hear from you Howard. Thanks for replying.