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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: Cucuboth on Monday 23 March 09 13:30 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I don't know if anyone can help (although, I hope, someone can). I have an ancestor named Mary Pardoe. She was tried at the Warwickshire Assizes on the 2nd April 1788, and sentenced to transportation to New South Wales, where she'd later mary Peter Hibbs. Anyway ... I've found 2 possible birth dates and places for Mary. One is in 1772 in Droitwich, Worcestershire. The other is in 1768 in Oldswinford, Worcestershire. Both times her parents are listed as a John Pardoe and Ann.
Just wondering if anyone might have any further information about Mary, especialy on her Pardoe family (Droitwich or Oldswinford?). Or if anyone might know of where to look for more information. Thank You.
Chris.
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Hi Chris,
Welcome to rootschat - I hope you find it both interesting and friendly :)
I've not seen the book mentioned on this site, and wondered if it might contain any information on Mary. Eve if it doesn't, it might tell you where to look.
Hope this helps a little.
Paulene :)
https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Portal:Worcestershire
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Hi Chris, and Hi Paulene, just wondered where you found the two dates for the baptism of Mary, Chris, as the IGI has 22 Mary Pardoe's baptised between 1760 and 1770 all in and around Old Swinford. There would have been others baptised at Non Conformist Chapels or not baptised at all. Are you sure she was a Miss Pardoe, not Married? What death details can you obtain in NSW? A lady I was in touch with from NSW was also looking for her Worcestershire Ancestor and found her Death Notice had lots of information. Do you have the details from Mary's trial? If I think of anything else will get back to you. Best Wishes from Linell.
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Hi Linell,
Well, first off, I got some of the Mary Pardoe info from a book that was done about 19 years ago by an Allen Maunder. It was made available to the decendants of Peter Hibbs and Mary Pardoe (of which, of course, I am one). It lists Mary's birth as 1772 in Droitwich, Worcestershire. But then it lists 2 possible sets of parents. John Pardoe and Ann. Or Thomas Pardoe and Mary Burton. FamilySearch.com throws up several different possibilites too.
Follwing other people researching the same line on Ancestry.com, some of them have Mary being born in 1768 in Old Swonford (I've since worked out that they mean Old Swinford). This line also crops up on FamilySearch.com
I'm not sure if Mary was married prior to being transported to NSW. She had a child on the voyage to one of the sailors, but then, in 1791, she married Peter Hibbs on Norfolk Island. Mary died in 1844 in NSW. I've been to her grave, but unfortuntly, don't hae a photo of it, but I don't think it had an age at death.
I was hoping that if I could find her trail record, it might, at least, contain her age. If she was born in 1772, that would have made her about 16 at her trial in 1788. If she was born in 1768, then she'd have been about 20 (and I guess then, possibly, maybe married, or widowed? Trail records would show that too I suppose). She was tried in the Warwickshire Assizes, and I'm not sure where to find those records, if they still exsist.
Chris
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Hi Chris, not an easy one, could be any Mary Pardoe in hindsight. I would try Birmingham Archives for the Warwickshire Assizes Court Rolls, at least they will be able to give you some advice. HTH from Linell.
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Hi Chris
I have a book called Lye & Wollescote. In the book it mentions the Pardoe's. Would you like to me list the names in the book - I didn't see the name Mary. If its any help I will be happy to do this for you.
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Dear Chris
Mary Pardoe is in my family line. I would like to find out for what crime she was sentenced. Did you try the Birmingham Archives for the Warwickshire Assizes Court Rolls as suggested by Linell?
I would like to get hold of a copy of the book "Lady Juliana" to see if she was mentioned in there (apparantly she was sentenced under the wrong surname of Barlow).
L Dillon
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Hello everyone - just registered one moment ago.
Just acquired an 1888 wedding certificate of Thomas Pardoe 'The Dock' Lye to Emily Burns of 'Skelding'? Lane, Lye
Thomas son of John (a nailer) and Emily daughter of Benjamin (a miner).
They subsequently moved to Wales and are my wife's ancestors.
Have to see where this leads me next :)
Best Wishes all - regards, Ifor
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Pardoe is a good old Lye name Ifor. There's a picture of Skelding Lane in one of the Lye and Wollescote Books, from the 'Britain in Old Photographs' Series. Happy hunting from Linell.
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Noted - thanks muchly.
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Hi I have just joined. I put into google photo of mary hibbs grave and this site came up.
Mary Pardoe is my GGGGG- Grandmother. Her daughter Ann Scott,( father Edward Scott.)
is my GGGG-grandmother. If any one can help with Mary`s birthplace and her parent, that would be great. I am just staring out and it is so facinating. Also the book that was made available to decendants, can I apply for one?. Thank you. Jan
PS, I know Mary and Peter Hibbs buried Laughtondale Cemetery NSW. Photo of Peters Grave. on The Discovery and Exploration of Australia.
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ref the Barlow mention, I have a Frances (fanny) Pardoe married to Robert Barlow of Brewood, 28, Ag Lab Fanny, 30 in 1841.
Any connection to Mary?
Geoff
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My father has typed up a family tree for Mary Pardoe but unfortunately it won't load on this site. I'd need an address to load it to. Mine is louise - dillon at hotmail dot com Reply through this and I can respond. Mary's headstone shows she died 19 May 1844 Hawkesbury River NSW Australia. Did anyone check the Birmingham Archives for the Warwickshire Assizes Court Rolls to discover Mary's crime that lead to her transportation? (Possibly listed as Mary Barlow)
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I compiled a list of the descendants of Mary Pardoe and Peter Hibbs and published the result in a book entitled "Sailing On... The Hibbs Line" in September 1995. I have been reading through the posts on this thread and:
1) There is no proof that Mary Pardoe and Peter Hibbs were ever married. A Reverend Johnson visited Norfolk Island in November 1791 and "married over a hundred couples". These couples were never named. Peter and Mary were most likely included but there is no proof.
2) The ship that brought Mary to Botany Bay was the "Lady Juliana". I have seen it listed as the "Lady Julian". It is now referred to as "The Floating Brothel" in a book written by Sian Rees a few years ago. The ship took one day short of one year to travel from England to Australia. Several children were conceived (and many born) aboard ship. Mary's daughter Ann Scott (father: sailor Edward Scott) was born 6 days before arrival.
3) A great number of people have tried to find proof that Peter Hibbs was a cabin boy on James Cook's "Endeavour". Those very same people and more have failed to find proof. The whole futile search was sparked by an off-the-cuff remark made by his son, also named Peter, to a report from a Windsor (NSW) newspaper in 1890.
I have been unable to find absolute proof of the life of Mary Pardoe in England. Some call her Barlow, some even Pardeaux and try to make her French!
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Good Morning
Had a look at her convict records.The Australian Convict Index has her real name as Mary Barlow alias Pardoe convicted Warwick arrived Lady Juliana age 20 in 1790.Died 1844 State NSW.
The settlers file for Gosford has her first marriage to Peter Hibbs 5.11.1791 Norfolk Island and her second to Edward Scott.she arrived on the Lady Juliana 5.11.1790.Born Worcestershire 1772.Died 19.5.1844 Lower Hawkesbury NSW.Buried Wiseman's Ferry.Convict.Children George,Peter,Peter Kennedy Hibbs,Joseph ,William,Sarah and Richard.
Peter's entry born 24.1.1762 Swanage farmer seaman arrived on Sirius 26.1.1788.Died 12.9.1847 Lower Hawkesbury NSW.Buried 14.9.1847 Wiseman's Ferry.Parents George Hibbs and Mary Kenney married 25.12.1760 Kent.
Her death certificate may just possible name her parents.
Ciderdrinker
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1828 census NSW
Joseph Hibbs 19 B6?or Bb
Peter Hibbs 64 CJ Sirius 1788 labourer Lower Ports Head
Mary 56 FS Lady Juliana 1790
George 34 B6
Peter 26 Bb
William 24 B6
Richard 21 Bbfarmer
Ciderdrinker
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Hello ciderdrinker...
You said:
The settlers file for Gosford has her first marriage to Peter Hibbs 5.11.1791 Norfolk Island and her second to Edward Scott.
+++ I have been researching the life and times of Peter Hibbs (and therefore, I guess, Mary Pardoe) for more than 25 years. I will say it again... there is no official EVIDENCE anywhere that Mary Pardoe married ANYONE at all. She had a child Ann Scott who was born six days before Mary Pardoe arrived in Australia. Ann's father was a sailor (Edward Scott) on the ship. Edward Scott did not stay in Australia. He was on the ship (Lady Julian/a) when it sailed away. I have been told ad-nauseum that Mary Pardoe married Peter Hibbs on Norfolk Island on 5th November 1791 and I have challenged at least a hundred people to point me towards official documentation (church records etc?). NONE has been been forthcoming. The ONLY official record is that Reverend Johnson visited Norfolk Island and married over a hundred couples on 5th November 1791. Just who those hundred happy couples were will NEVER be known. Peter and Mary? Probably - but only probably - nothing more.
You said:she arrived on the Lady Juliana 5.11.1790.
+++ I think you will find that it arrived 3.6.1790.
You said: Buried Wiseman's Ferry
+++ She is buried beside Peter Hibbs at Laughtondale NSW.
You said: Children George,Peter,Peter Kennedy Hibbs,Joseph ,William,Sarah and Richard.
+++ Children: Ann (Scott, known as Hibbs) 1790, George 1792, Peter 1794-1798, Peter KENNEY 1800, William 1804, Sarah 1806, Richard 1808, Joseph 1811.
You said: Peter's entry born 24.1.1762 Swanage
+++ Birth date unknown. BAPTISED 24.1.1792. Buried at Laughtondale NSW 14.9.1847
--- Allen
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Good Morning.
I'm just quoting the settlers records for Gosford.Obviously I haven't checked it out line by line looking for supporting evidence.I was just trying to help with records you may not have seen .
Really, the important point was that she was born in Worcestershire in 1772 according to the document but I thought it best to report it in full so you can make up your own mind and I didn't create a false impression.
I do know that Edward Scott wasn't a second husband and was the sailor who fathered her baby and that she died as Mary Hibbs on the Australian death index but to mention a selective part of the documentation I felt could give a false impression of its veracity and relability.
Ciderdrinker
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Hello again ciderdrinker...
Sorry if I seemed a bit "sharp" but over 25 years I have seen so many times that Peter Hibbs married Mary Pardoe on 5th November 1790. Just as many times, nobody can show proof because I know there is none.
Another unproven story: you will see quoted time and again ad infinitum that Peter Hibbs came to Australia as a cabin boy with James Cook on the "Endeavour". Thousands of dollars (but none of mine - I said "no thanks") have been spent on getting professionals to find proof of that. There is none. What started that one was that Peter Hibbs's son (also Peter) was interviewed re his father by a Windsor (NSW) newspaper reporter in 1890. I have a copy of the newspaper clipping. Peter junior said his father came here with Captain James Cook. Nothing more, nothing less. I think it's obvious that he meant Captain Arthur Phillip.
Peter Hibbs was aged six when Cook was rounding up crew for his voyage (1768). Peter (aged 6) lived on the south coast of England (Dorset). Cook chose his crew in Yorkshire - at least 300 km away. A six-year-old running away from home and running at least 300 km in the 1700s (or today!) over roads of dirt and the only transport was horses or horse-drawn - that's a bit much for even me to believe. Obviously a lot of people do!
Anyway, once again, sorry if I sounded short and sharp - Regards - Allen
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Hi
That's ok Allen
Ciderdrinker