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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: roycymru on Wednesday 25 March 09 22:54 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am hoping someone who might also have these in their family tree might be able to help. I am trying to find the death dates for John Thomas and Sarah Thomas (nee Edmunds) of Caerbegin farm, Five Roads, Llanelly. The last entry I have for them is in the 1901 census at Caerbegin (listed as ages 53 and 52, but were actually 58 (born 11 Jul 1842 William Stret llanely) and 56 (born 07 May 1844 at Caerbegin). With them in the1901 census were Jane Thomas (dau) 21, William Thomas (son) 20 and Hannah E Thomas (dau) 18. I have tried free BMD, but as their names are so common there are too many possible matches, so I am hoping someone with a family connection might know.
Thanks
Caerbegin Farm has had many variations in spelling, current version is Caerbigyn
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Hi, very excited to see your message. I am looking for the history of Caerbigyn Farm to see how to tie it to my family (Williams). You have given me a large clue that an Edmunds family was living there in 1841. I live in the States and visited the farm in April. As far as I can tell, my Williams family were living in Llanelli in 1841 but were known as Williams Caerbigyn even then. Do you have the parents of Sarah Edmunds Thomas? I'll continue researching and will be glad to send you any information.
Did correspond with David Cooke, Senior Archivist, Carmarthenshire, 3 yrs. ago was told that records from 1833 showed farm was tenanted by Thomas Davies. The tithe schedule did not show property owners, only tenants.
Thanks for your help.
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A quick reply. I am a member of Carmarthenshire-FHS and a lady put a query on there, from this it sounds as if she might be related to you. I will send you her e-mail address as a persnal message as it sounds as if you might have information to share: Her posting was:
My ggg grandfather was David WILLIAMS (b. About 1812 - d. 9 July 1871). On
21 Sep 1838, he married Justina FRANCIS. From what I know (and have been
able to find out), they lived on Ann Street in Wern and later moved to William St.
I recently found David WILLIAMS' obituary from 1871 and it states the
following: Willams ---- July 9, Mr. David Williams (late of Caerbiggin), William Street, Llanelly, aged 59 years. He was considered a good Christian, and much beloved by all who knew him.
This is the very first time that I had ever heard of Caerbiggin...I'm hoping that someone on the list might be able to tell me a bit more about this place.
I had kind of hit a brick wall with David Williams! Upon finding this obituary, I'm hoping that now that I know he was from Caerbiggin, it might help smash through that wall!
Plus follow ups were:
From Me
I have you don't mind me E-Mailing you but I have an indirect link to your research as my Edmunds family owned Caerbygin farm from 1841 onwards and I replied to a previous post you did on Carm-FHS. You may have this information already but on searching for Caerbygin today I came across this information http://welshmormonhistory.org/index.php?/resources/view/601 which mentions David Williams, his family and Caerbygin farm. There are contact details:
"Feel free to copy the information on this site for your own personal use. All who have pictures, biographies, journals, or other information that ought to be on this site are invited to contact Ron Dennis at welshmormon@yahoo.com."
Perhaps if you contact Ron he might be able to put you in touch with whoever wrote the article and they in turn might be able to provide information on David pre-1841 (Note by me: She did but he didn't)
Her Reply was:
I've reread the piece written by Esther Jenkins Carpenter and I'm trying to figure out how my David Williams might tie in. I am piecing together as much as I can about my David Williams. In November, I was able to get a copy of his will (he died on 7 July 1871 at the age of 59). Caerbygin isn't mentioned in the will at all, but it was definitely mentioned in his obituary. That mention in the obituary was the first time that I had ever heard of Caerbygin. In the article by Esther Carpenter, she mentions that her grandfather (David Williams) was married to Sarah Lodwick. My David Williams was married to Justina Francis but since the article does mention that there were "brothers and cousins", I think that it's a pretty strong possibility that my David Williams of Caerbygin is related to her David Williams of Caerbygin! :)
Thank you once again for letting me know about this find! I really appreciate it!
I also found this:
Also, found this http://templeready.com/Eng/Library/fhlcatalog/mainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&columns=undefined&titleno=332629&disp=Biographies+of+Evan+Jenkins+and+Ann+Will&first=undefined&last=undefined
which is apparently a book/document held on microfiche by the LDS where references are made to
re: Williams of Caerbigyn farm -- Letter of 31 December 1952, re: Joseph Williams, Caerbigyn -- Letter of 18 June 1953
which would be useful if you know someone who has access to LDS records or if you have an Church of LDS family history centre near you you can visit to look it up. (Note by me: she han't had a chance to look this up yet)
Roy
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Hi
I have sent you the other ladies E-Mail address. Caerbygin (Cae'r biggin, Caerbigyn and other variants) was in the Edmund family from 1841 to 1871. It then came under the Thomas family (at least until 1911) as John Thomas married Sarah Edmund daughter of Richard Edmund and Margaret Griffiths, so no obvious link to Williams in my family line. I think the farm was acquired (started to be rented?) by the Edmunds sometime in the 1830's as I found a reference to it being sold in the Cambrian newspaper of 5 Nov 1831 (http://www2.swansea.gov.uk/_info/cambrian/?Lang=eng) and sent off for a copy of the article, which in full is:
To be sold by Private Contract:
The following eligible FARMS situate in the parish of Llanelly, in the county of Carmarthen:
No.1. LLWYNWHILWG A. 28, R. 1, P.21
No.2 BRONDINI FAWR A. 91, R. 1, P. 35
No.3 CAERBIGGIN A. 45, R. 1, P.12
No.4 CROSS HANDS A. 8, R. 0, P. 13
Together with several other small lots, forming altogether a desirable investment.
There are several veins of Excellent coal now open and in working under the property.
Application to be made to Mr. Jenkins, Solicitor Swansea; or to Mr. Benjamin Jones, Surveyor, Loughor, near Swansea; all letters to be post paid.
The consensus is that A. R. and P. stand for Acres, Rods and Poles/Perches
There is also a picture of Caerbigyn here http://www.geograph.org.uk/browse.php?p=185846
Roy
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A final bit of info:
Another bit of information I have found, from Carm-FHS, is that there is burial of a Rachel Jones (Llangendeirne Parish Records) on 27 Jun 1816, age 80, abode give as Caer Bygin Llanelly. From my own personal experience of family research I have seen mother in laws living with their son in law and daughter as they got older, therefore there is the possibility that if it was a "Mr." Williams living at Cearbigyn in 1816 his wife was a "Jones" and her mother was called Rachel Jones.
Roy
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In case anyone else is interested I did eventually find out the death dates of John and Sarah Thomas! They both died at Caerbigyn, John on 29 Dec 1917 and Sarah on 05 June 1927.
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Hi Dianet3
I would be very interested if you find out any more info about Caerbigyn pre 1841 and when exactly it came under the Edmunds. I have tried to send you a personal message with my E-Mail address but keep getting an error message about "max PM limit". Perhaps, if you don't mind, you could send me a personal message with yours and I can then reply directly to your "proper" E-Mail address.
Roy
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Roy,
Got your info. today forwarding the message re Thomas's at Caerbigyn Farm. Can't tell you how excited I am to get all you sent. This will certainly open more doors for research and hopefully finding the link to my Williams family.
Please keep in touch. Diane
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Roy - remembered when we visited Caerbigyn in April we met the son-in-law of present owners. He told us his family bought the old "Williams farm" across the lane in 1965 from a Jane Williams. Could this farm actually be the one owned by my WIlliams family.
Thanks for your help, Diane
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Hi Diane --
I'm the other person interested in Caerbigyn! I'm curious to learn more about your Williams family. Where did your Williams' settle in the States? Any chance that it was in Pennsylvania?
I think that Roy gave you my e-mail address, feel free to write me anytime! So happy to find someone else who is interested in all of this! :)
All the best,
Susan
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Susan, So glad to hear from you. My e-mail is
Moderator comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please pass such information by Personal Message.
Please write to me there and I've give you more information. Diane
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Hi. I have also have connections with Jones. Edmunds and a farm close to Caebygin called Ty-mawr. PM me.
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Hi, just read your message. Hope we can exchange some info. especially re: Jones in early 1800's.
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Hi. I have also have connections with Jones. Edmunds and a farm close to Caebygin called Ty-mawr. PM me.
Hello Trevor
A couple of Weeks ago I sent you a PM with my E-Mail address, but haven't heard from you. Can you please confirm you received my PM? As you have only made 1 post I can't PM you again, you have to make at least 3 posts before I can PM you again and possibly before you can PM me. Perhaps if you make a couple of posts with some info on Edmunds/Jones etc. to this thread then we can start the ball rolling.
Roy
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Sorry about that Roy, but I don't have access to my records at present, so I can't give you any more info, but the Edmunds that I can recall are from the Sandy area of Llanelli and are linked to my William Jones family.
Will get back to you in the New Year .
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Just read this and realise you've probably got all the info you need, but thought I'd add this.
The same family still live in Caerbigyn, this family was also linked with Tycanol Farm and Cencoed Uchaf ( both in Five Roads but come in to the Hengoed boundary of electors). families were buried in Horeb Baptist Chapel but it is now closed and the graveyard overgrown & also in the new cemetery in the village.
The Edmunds & Walters family farmed on Mynydd Sylen once at Ystodwen & others in the hamlet of Horeb.
Allegedly an ancestor of these families was Lucy Walters a one time mistress of Charles 2... did have a book written in Welsh about her.
Also family linked with Croesnant farm.
The village of Five Roads was predominantly Edmunds, Thomas, Williams and Walters until the 1930's.
Hope some of these farm names help.
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Hi
Thanks for this it is all very useful. I have sent you a private message as hopefully there is lots more info we can share.
Kind Regards
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There is a person who might be able to assist you, she's with the Dyfed Family History Society, as I'll be in hospital for a while I'll be unable to contact her....the name is Iona Edmunds. Also why not contact the Caerbigyn family as they do know their own history and will be better able to clarify family matters.
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Hi blodyn tatws
Sorry to hear you will be going into hospital, I hope all goes well. If you have contact details for Iona Edmunds (e.g. a postal address) that you p.m. me I don't mind writing to her. I did write to Caerbigyn farm (addressed to the "Thomas" family as I don't know the names of anyone currently living there) just over a Week ago now, but I have had no response yet.
roycymru
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Hi
The family at Caerbigyn got back to me and there is no direct link with my Thomas's. They bought Caerbigyn from Jane Thomas (a daughter of John and Sarah Thomas) in 1945 and they are linked to the Thomas's of Cold Blow farm with no link to my line. This ties up nicely with some info I recently found out, in that William Thomas (Jane's brother, also living at Caerbigyn died in 1945) and I guess after William's death she decided to sell up. According to my Uncle, both were unmarried and after William's death Jane went to live in "Havod" Five Roads.
ER Cof
Am WILLIAM mab
RICHARD a MARGARET EDMUND
Caerbigin or Plwyf hwn
Ganwyd ef Mawrth 26 1835
Bu farw Gor 12 1890
Yllugad am gwelodd ni’m gwelmwyach
Dy lygaid sydd arnaf ac nid ydwyf.
Niddychwel mwy i’wdy ai le nid
Edwyn ef mwy.
Hefyd am WILLIAM THOMAS
Mab JOHN a SARAH THOMAS
O’r lle uchod
Hunodd ebrill 16 1945 un 64 ml. oed
Dy ewyllys di a wneler
Hefyd am JANE THOMAS
Hunodd tachwedd 17 1961 un 84 ml oed
Mewn hedd
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My uncle & aunt bought Hafod in the late 50's early 60's! Think the Thomas' you are looking for live in Trimsaran....my mother may be able to assist. They lived at Tycanol...which was sold due to open cast mining and is now Ffos Las Racecourse.( sale1976)
If you need any assistance with looking at 3 cemetries in Five Roads, please ask as I'm doing a trawl due to sorting out my complicated family!
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Hi
Jane Thomas dying in 1961 would seem to tie in with this purchase. If you do go to Old Horeb I would be very interested in any other MI's that refer to Edmund particularly William, Margaret and any references to Herberdeg or Caerbrenin farm. However be warned that Old Horeb is particularly over grown and you will need a good pair of boots, some sturdy clothing, gardening gloves and secateurs! The path I forged through there to the Edmunds of Caerbigyn gravestone a couple of Weeks ago should still be relatively clear. There was an (Older?) area to the left of these gravestones which might contain further Edmunds, but this is a pure guess and I ran out of time on the Day.
Thank you
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Hi
Revisiting this old thread in case anyone had anything new to add. The link on page 1 is now dead but this is a new link https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/332629?availability=Family%20History%20Library
The extract is below. Certainly if anyone has access to these records then this “ Extract for "Hanes, Sion, Llanelli, 1831-1931, re: Williams of Caerbigyn farm -- Letter of 31 December 1952, re: Joseph Williams, Caerbigyn -- Letter of 18 June 1953 re: Lowicks -- Ann Jenkins Purser” might provide more information of the Williams of Ceaerbygin.
For reference: the wife of Richard Edmund of Caerbygin 1811-1892 was Margaret Griffiths 1807-1861. Her parents were a Jeremiah Griffiths (a Cooper by trade) and Catherine Jones (1759-1841). Catherine, according to her Will was of Brynbiga, and leaves her share in Nantymel, Llwynhendy to her daughter Margaret Griffiths.
Reproduced from typescript.
Contents: These crumbling walls (poem) -- Evan Jenkins -- Anna Evan Jenkins -- Esther Evans -- Genealogy dictated to Uncle John Jenkins by grandmother -- Ann William Jenkins -- David Williams -- Grandparents of Ann William -- Evan and Alice Hawkins Jenkins -- Extract for "Hanes, Sion, Llanelli, 1831-1931, re: Williams of Caerbigyn farm -- Letter of 31 December 1952, re: Joseph Williams, Caerbigyn -- Letter of 18 June 1953 re: Lowicks -- Ann Jenkins Purser -- David L. Jenkins ltr. of 28 July 1941 -- David Jenkins (1843-1915) -- Emma Reese Davis Jenkins -- Joseph and Esther Jenkins Morse -- John Martin and Ann Jenkins -- Mary William Jenkins, wife of John Jenkins -- Sarah Jane William (Jenkins) -- Joseph W. Dudley -- Mair (Mary) Price -- Daniel E. Price -- Mary William Harman -- Margaret Williams Evans -- Martha Willidms Goddard -- Welsh triads.
Evan Jenkins (1849-1924) was born in Cwmbach, Wales, the son of David Jenkins (1814-1852) and Anna Evans Jenkins. His parents joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1844-1845. He immigrated to Utah with his family in 1868. He met Ann Williams while working in Tootle County. They were married in the Endowment House in Salt Lake City in 1875. They were the parents of nine children. The family lived on a family in Malad Valley, Idaho. Anna died in childbirth in 1894. He married 2) Mrs. Sarah J. Evans in the Logan Temple in 1903. He died in 1924 at his home in Samaria, Idaho.