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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: wimbush1975 on Saturday 25 April 09 11:39 BST (UK)
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Looking for any info on Frederick Henry Griffiths born 1864 and his brother Philip Griffiths born 1866 in SA, parents Robert Henry and Charlotte Anne nee Winzor. Can find some info on Frederick and his marriage and children, but nothing on Philip? Would love to find out more about Frederick's children and if they had families??
Thanks
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Hi Wimbush,
BISA
GRIFFITHS Robert Henry arrived by 1864 residence Wallaroo
married Charlotte Anne born c1846 died 10 June 1924 buried Payneham SA
children Fredk Henry (1864-1949), Geo Phillip (1866-1925)
GRIFFITHS George Philip died 27 June 1925 Hospital Fullaton Dist Ade 479 348 He was aged 58 married residence Fullaton Relative not recorded
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks for that, i had him as Philip, explains why i couldnt find anything on him, i have the birth disk of SA and it had him listed as Philip, where did you find the George bit?
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Hi Wimbush,
Yes the birth lists Phillip, but the BISA and the death list him as George Philip. I am not sure what you are after here. I do not see any births to Frederick in SA (He did marry in SA) nor do I see any Griffiths marriages listing a father as Frederick. Likewise the death for George Philip lists him as marriage but I see no marriage nor births listed to him in SA
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks, youve help alot. Frederick had his 4 children in NSW so maybe George went there too for a while. Do you have any info on Charlottes family? I have her dad as Philp Winzor/Winzer, but would like to find out her mothers name etc.
Thanks
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There are also entries in the BISA for the boys
GRIFFITHS Fredrick H. parents Robt Henry and Charlotte Anne born 25 Sep 1864 Pt Wallaroo SA died 1 July 1949 buried Payneham SA residence Wallaroo, Nth Adelaide rel: Meth
maried Annie nee HARRIS parents Thos Bult and Eliza Jane nee TUCKFIELD born 14 Oct
GRIFFITHS George Phillip parents Robt Henry and Charlotte Anne born 23 Dec 1866 SA died 27 June 1925 buried Payneham SA
married Phoebe Augta born c1869 died 11 June 1955
GRIFFITHS Phoebe Augusta died 11 June 1955 Hospital Erindale Dist Nor 827 3080 She was aged 86 a widow residence Erindale Relative George Phillip GRIFFITHS [Deceased Husband]
Cheers Kris :)
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Charlotte appears to have quite a few siblings marrying in SA including a brother Philip George. There are some BISA entries for some of the siblings listing parents as Philip and Eliz and one says born Dorset 1850 arrived 1855 aboard the OCTAVIA
Charlotte Ann WINZAR Mar 1/4 1846 Dorchester 8 55
I also note Robert Richard was listed in Dorchester in 1850 as stated in BISA
The family appear in Bradford Pererell in 1851
Mother Elizabeth 41 Married Masons Wife is the head (Huusband not present) - Sharlotte is 5
Cheers Kris :)
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Philip WINZER died 28 Jan 1873 Wallaroo Dist Dal 51 33, He was aged 61 Status not Known, Relative not recorded, residence Wallaroo
There is a passenger list for the OCTAVIA
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/octavia1855.htm
I see a James is listed as single male - perhaps family are WURGER family, son James only looks like being 6 in 1851 so don't know what to think :-\
Kris :)
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Philip WINZOR = Elizabeth SAMWAYS by Banns 27 Jan 1834 Fordington Dorset. Witnesses Philip Winzer and Elizabeth Samways
In 1841 oldest child Frederick is 3 (fits with 1851) Philip aged 30 is a plasterer and there is George Samways 60 in the house so this marriage looks great. There is also a Philip Winzer aged 50 a plasterer in Fordington so all fits very nicely.
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks for the help, sorting through the info you have given!
Wendy
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No worries Wendy,
Glad to help. Just about my bed time. Let me know if you need those census entries etc and I will do them in the morning, or if there is anything else, just ask. I see a submitted entry for Elizabeth on IGI 15 Apr 1810 Piddletrenthide parents George and Jane (with George in the household in 1841 that looks good, and that is the POB listed in 1851 ;) ) also some of the baptisms to Philip and Elizabeth. Looks like there was an earlier Charlotte.
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi, if you could give me those census entries would be good. when ever you have time, you have been a big help.. might have to pick your brains on my other family members im lost with! Night
Wendy
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By the way - I did notice George and Phoebe married in Broken Hill
2708/1890 GRIFFITHS George P = WEARNE Phoebe A H
I don't see any births - only the 4 to Frederick and Annie
Cheers Kris :)
No problem will do in the morning Wendy
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Morning Wendy,
1841 Census
HO107/294/6 Folio 24 Page 42
Pearce Lane
Holy Trinity
Dorchester
WINZAR Philip 30 Y Journeyman Plasterer
WINZAR Frederic 3
WINZAR Elizabeth 30 Y
WINZAR Maria 2 Y
/
SAMWAYS George 50 Y Ind
SALTER George 50 Y Journeyman Blacksmith
SALTER Rebecca 55 Y
The / indicates they had a room/rooms on the same property
HO107/284/24 Folio 5 Page 4
Millers Close
Fordingham
WINZAR Philip 50 Y Journeyman Plasterer
WINZAR Hannah 70 Y
WINZAR Emma 15 Y
1851 census
HO107/1858 Folio 430 Page 11
Bradford Peverell
Dorchester
WINZER Elizabeth Head 41 Mar b Piddletrinthide Masons Wife
WINZER Frederick Son 13 b Dorchester Masons Boy
WINZER Maria 12 b Dorchester
WINZER Edward Son 9 b Dorchester
WINZER Fanney Dau 6 b Dorchester Scholar
WINZER Sharlotte Dau 5 b Dorchester At home
WINZER George Son 2 b Bradford Pevl - would suggest he becomes Philip George in Oz
WINZER Robert Son 1 b DBradford Pevl
SAMWAYS Christinah Visitor 18 Unm b Piddletrinthide (she is on the IGI dau of James and Elizabeth)
Sorry it was Fanney who was 6 - no James - I must have been tired last night ::)
HO107/1858 Folio 166 Page 18
Fordingham Hill
Fordingham
WINZAR Philip Head 63 Mar b Fordingham Plasterer Journeyman
WINZAR Hannah Wife 81 Mar b Church Somerset Blind
CRABTREE Robert Visitor 63 Unm b Dorchester Pauper formerly private in ?
Cheers Kris :)
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This looks like dads baptism
WINZAR Philip 23 Nov 1788 Fordingham parents Philip and Mary
submitted IGI entries suggest the marriage
Philip WINZAR - Mary PURCHASE 28 June 1784 Dorchester Holy Trinity
Now Hannah seemed to old to be the mother particularly where Emma is concerned. It it hadn't been for 1851 I would have suspected she may have been his mother as relationships are not listed in 1841.
I have not found philips baptism but I have found Emma's
WINZAR Emma 5 Sep 1824 Dorchester Holy Trinity parents Philip and Margaret
Also note daughters Charlotte and Elizabeth Ann listed on IGI
Philip WINZAR, of Holy Trinity Dorchester = Margaret STRICKLAND otp 15 Apr 1811 Puddletown Witnesses John Pouney and Robert Tapper
Cheers Kris :)
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Wendy I am just looking at Fredericks Children. The only possible marriage in Broken Hill is
Dorothy GRIFFITHS = William QUEALE Broken Hill 8987/1918
If you think she is yours then I do see 2 births listed in SA. I wont post them here as may well still be living, but let me know if you require and I will PM details.
There is a death listed for
QUEALE Thomas Frederick 24 May 1933 Glen Osmond Dist Nor 548 358. He was aged 1 day and 12 hours old. Residence Glen Osmond father William Queale
also
QUEALE William 25 Dec 1951 St Georges Dist Nor 778 85. He was Married aged 62 of St Georges Relative not recorded.
No death listed for Dorothy prior to 1972, however I note she is interred at Centennial Park after passing away 19 June 1989 aged 91 years. (Perfect for a birth in 1898 ;) ) Also note Son William Griffiths Queale 24 Jan 1994 aged 74 so he must have been born in the Hill. A lot of families relocated to Adelaide about this time from the Hill - my own included
http://www.centennialpark.org/burial_memorial_search/
Armed with the other children names, I rechecked SA records and I do not see any births listing Mothers Hazel or Elisa Griffiths, nor any listing a father Lester in SA to 1928. They did not marry in SA before 1937
Hope it helps...........Kris :)
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There are headstones listed at Payneham for the Griffiths family
http://www.ozgenonline.com/aust_cemeteries/sa/norwood_payneham_stpeters/paynehamgndata.htm
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Wendy,
Fascinating article on William QUEALE here
http://adbonline.anu.edu.au/biogs/A160047b.htm
Kris :)
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Wow youve found heaps for me! Looks like Dorothy and William had a few kids, still looking at all the info youve given me
thanks
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Glad to help Wendy,
It has been interesting. Should keep you busy for a bit ;D
Just a spot more from Dorset:
The burials of Philip WINZOR and Mary (nee PURCHASE) ?
WINSOR Philip 72 of Holy Trinity Dorchester buried Fordingham 7 Oct 1834
WINSOR Mary 76 of Grove Buildings was buried Fordingham 12 July 1835
No luck with a burial for Margaret but here is the second marriage:
WINZER Philip Widower = PITTS Hannah Widow Chard Somerset 29 Dec 1828
Kris :)
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Hi Wendy
Payneham Cemetery records list
GRIFFITHS
Mary died Edsall St Norwood 25 Oct 1912 aged 70
FOSTER Mary Elizabeth dau of above died 11 June 1927
Annie wife of FH died 3 Oct 1922 aged 58
Frederick Henry husband of above died 1 July 1949 aged 84
HARRIS Louisa sister of Annie died 6 Nov 1955 aged 78
Charlotte Ann Mother died 10 Jun 1924 aged 78
George Philip son of above died 27 Jun 1925 aged 58
Phoebe Augusta widow of GP died 11 Jun 1955 aged 86
Cheers Kris :)
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Regarding Frederick & Phillip Griffiths.Frederick Henry married Anne Maria Harris - 4children-Hazel b1892 never married. Thomas Leicester b1893m.Gertrude Sarah Garland-2children-1Valerie m.Pip Comport-1child-Georgina Helen. 2Joy -m.Robert Excell. Elizab.1895 m.Robert Benjamin Williams noissue but 2 adopted Kevin --Frank Dorothy m.William Queale 7 children 1-wILLIAM Griffithsb.1919-3 children-2.Jocelyn Anne b.1923 -3-chidren 3Dorothy Ruth 2 children 4.-Enid Mary 1927 -2 children 5Thomas Frederick 1932-1932 6.-John David 1934-3.chikdren 7Peter rRodney1937 2-children. Iam the husband of Enid Mary lloydjmillar
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Hello, so we are family? Thanks for the info. Have you done the tree? Do you have any photos of that "Griffiths" side of the family?
Wendy
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Hi Wendy,
We have another member with an interest in the Winzor family. ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,386081.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,386080.0.html
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks for letting me know, all interesting stuff!
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wendy. thanks for reply. Have family tree(needs updating first)also photo of phillip. Am new to computer-need a scanner. Earliest I have is Phillip (son of a victorian hotel keeper) m. Charlotte Ann Winzer (no dates yet) ch.Frederick & Phillip Note Mary Griffiths & daughter - Ihave no record of them. lloyd.
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Hi, I have robert henry griffiths marrying charlotte winzer,
wendy
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Lloyd if you make one more post, you will be able to communicate with Wendy by pm.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Wimbush,
I will try and answer some more questions for you.
Philip Winzer is the Brother of Robert Winzer.
Philips father I have been lead to believe was a Andrew Gage. Margaret Stickland was not married at the time of his birth.
Philip Had one brother and 3 sisters
Robert who I am a descendant of.
Charlotte
Elizabeth
Emma.
If you look on the familysearch site you can find the info.The Winzer varies, Winzor, winzar,winsor
Philip is listed in 1851 Census
as a visitor at his brothers house the spelling is winger if you go looking.
Could you please answer a question for me? I was wondering how you worked out that Philip senior's parents were Philip and Mary Purchase?? I mean I have seen this but if you look there is also a Elizabeth Lester married to a Philip and they have a son Philip.
If you would like more info on the family drop me a line
Thank you
Megan
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Philip Had one brother and 3 sisters
Robert who I am a descendant of.
Charlotte
Elizabeth
Emma.
I'm assuming Wimbush you are referring to Phillip George W b1848 -- who is my gr/grandfather ?
For my tree do you have the birth-dates/years of Phillip Geo's siblings?
there is also a Elizabeth Lester married to a Philip and they have a son Philip.
I thought this to be true also, do you have any more details on them?
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hi, im connected thru his sister charlotte she married my gggrandfather robert henry griffiths
wendy
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Yes I gathered that from your earlier posts, but can you help me with my request on Robert, Elizabeth and Emma?
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MEGAN..
just noticed your question... i have there parents as Philip and Elizabeth Samways look at posts 6 and 8
wendy
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i have no info on the family of charlottes as she was only connected to me thru her children sorry
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Philip Had one brother and 3 sisters
Robert who I am a descendant of.
Charlotte
Elizabeth
Emma.
I'm assuming Wimbush you are referring to Phillip George W b1848 -- who is my gr/grandfather ?
For my tree do you have the birth-dates/years of Phillip Geo's siblings? I have not found a Philip George not unless I have the name wrong?? I have a george on the tree.
there is also a Elizabeth Lester married to a Philip and they have a son Philip.
I thought this to be true also, do you have any more details on them?
I think I might have figured it out. Ok it get a bit confusing, I will start with the Philip that I think is PG father
He married Elizabeth Samways
Philips father was Philip was married to Mary Purchase, Now His father Philip was married to Elizabeth Lester.
Do you understand?
Let me know.
Megan
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Yes I gathered that from your earlier posts, but can you help me with my request on Robert, Elizabeth and Emma?
I will try and Help you are we talking about Robert, Elizabeth and Emma Winzer? If so which Elizabeth are we talking about and what would you like to know about Robert?
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i have no info on the family of charlottes as she was only connected to me thru her children sorry
Would you like more information
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not really as the family is not connected only thru robert henry griffiths, i have the info i need! Thanks
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I think Wimbush, Megs72 may have been asking me, but I think I now have the gist of Phillip Geo WINZER b 1812 and has sisters Charlotte, Elizabeth Anne, Emma and brother Robert?
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I don't mind trying to help either of you or both of you
Which ever one wants the help.
Jacksin do you want more info on the Family?
One question though is Philip george married to Elizabeth Samways?
Because I am still a bit confused about Philip george.
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I only have Philip Winzer born bout 1812 marrying Elizabeth Samways, then his son Philip George Winzer born 1848, but the first Philip could of been Philip George too.
Charlotte names her son after them, but George Philip Griffiths but he is listed as Philip on birth record, shows they dont always used there full names!
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wendy. thanks for reply. Have family tree(needs updating first)also photo of phillip. Am new to computer-need a scanner. Earliest I have is Phillip (son of a victorian hotel keeper) m. Charlotte Ann Winzer (no dates yet) ch.Frederick & Phillip Note Mary Griffiths & daughter - Ihave no record of them. lloyd.
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Yes Megs72. Krisisjoint has been helping me in PM but I'm confused as there seems to be an abundance of Phillip Winzers (spelling).
So please correct me if I'm wrong here (before I develop a serious drinking problem LOL) but---
I think there was Phillip Winzar 1762--1834 who married Mary Purchase 1759--1835
I'm assuming they had a son Phillip bc 1791 who married Mary Strickland and then Hannah Pitts and was (I think) the elder of the two Phillip Winzars listed on the 1841 Census posted by Krisisjoint, hence my PM to her.
I'm further assuming Phillip W and Mary Strickland had a son Phillip b.1812 (and other children) although I read that this Phillip's father could have been Andrew Gage with an unmarried Mary Strickland. Phillip George b.1812 is my link and went on to marry Elizabeth Samways. (I hope) Just how far wrong am I?
It would have been so easier if they had just opted for another name other than Phillip!!
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Yes Megs72. Krisisjoint has been helping me in PM but I'm confused as there seems to be an abundance of Phillip Winzers (spelling).
So please correct me if I'm wrong here (before I develop a serious drinking problem LOL) but---
I think there was Phillip Winzar 1762--1834 who married Mary Purchase 1759--1835
I'm assuming they had a son Phillip bc 1791 who married Mary Strickland and then Hannah Pitts and was (I think) the elder of the two Phillip Winzars listed on the 1841 Census posted by Krisisjoint, hence my PM to her.
I'm further assuming Phillip W and Mary Strickland had a son Phillip b.1812 (and other children) although I read that this Phillip's father could have been Andrew Gage with an unmarried Mary Strickland. Phillip George b.1812 is my link and went on to marry Elizabeth Samways. (I hope) Just how far wrong am I?
It would have been so easier if they had just opted for another name other than Phillip!!
I know how you feel about the drinking lol.
You are pretty right so far. Philip 1762 was married to Mary but his father was also Philip and he was married to Elizabeth.
Philip and Mary's son Philip born 1787 was married to Margaret Stickland. Apparently there son Philip's Father was Andrew Gape not Gage sorry I got that bit wrong. Yes she was unmarried when he was conceived and married Philip after he was born or before. Now one of the other ladies (who well we have been helping each other shes not on this site) well she looked into court records and found one for Margaret and Andrew Gape and the bastard child case.
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I found this in The National Archives UK
Warrant for Margaret Winzar, formerly Stickland, singlewoman and Andrew Gape, the reputed father of her bastard child to appear before the Justices of the Peace PE/PUD/OV/4/4/9 5 Jul 1817
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Thanks for that Megs72 its all becoming clearer, no thanks to all the Phillips, however was Mary's maiden name Strickland or Stickland?
Philip 1762 was married to Mary but his father was also Philip and he was married to Elizabeth.
Do you have any details on Phillip 1762's father Phillip and mother Elizabeth?
And I seem to have misplaced Robert Richard Winzer bc1850, could you tell me who were his parents please?
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Jacksin,
I haven't been able to find any information on Philip Winzer and Elizabeth Lester only marriage details.
I am not sure if Philip was born in England.
Everything I have Maragret Stickland...........not Mary. Is stickland
I think ........not 100% sure it is Philip Winzer and Elizabeth Samways.
Are you on GenesReunited.com?
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Are you on GenesReunited.com?
I was but not as a paid up member
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If I may revive this thread.
I have found an Elizabeth WINZER (that could be nee Samways, wife of Phillip WINZER b.1812) buried in the Broken Hill cemetery NSW, DOI 9-7-1891 aged 82yrs.
In the same plot as Edward WINZER (her son?) DOI 16-2-1897 aged 55yrs -- which ties in with Edward WINZER b1842
Would this be correct?
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Here is the Edward's death reg that will identify him.
732/1897
WINZER Edward
Father Phillip Mother Elizabeth
District Broken Hill
and Elizabeth's death wasn't registered until 1892
3609/1892
WINZER Elizabeth
Father George Mother Unknown
District Broken Hill
Cheers
Cando