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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: liverpool annie on Sunday 03 May 09 01:22 BST (UK)
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This sounds complicated ...... but I'm researching a WW1 soldier who was born in the Channel Islands and emigrated to Australia ..... but his father seems to have emigrated to Canada ......
This is what we know so far ...
In 1928 the late GOC 2nd Aust Div MAj General Sir Charles Rosenthal wrote enquiring of an address - his father's last known address was this .......
Rev Samuel Harry
Drumbo
Oxford County
Ontario, Canada
Glen found a passenger list for Sam Harry 22 April 1915 on the Metgama
POD Liverpool
POE Montreal
Age 52
Clergyman
Page 15 of 24
Any chance somebody could find something out about him please ?? I believe he was a Methodist !!
Thanking you in advance
Annie :)
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He crosssed the border into the US in June 1916 headed for New York. The border crossing page is a bit blurry. It gives his previous address as Drumbo. Don't know if he returned to Canada.
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From the above mentioned border crossing, could "whether going to join a relative or friend" be: YMCA? N.Y. City?
It looks like he had $400 with him, which was quite a bit of money.
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It appears that he did come back. There are two border crossing documents for Samuel Harry - one dated 24 Jun 1916 (that avidgenie mentioned) and one dated 19 Jun 1926. His age is listed as 53 on both documents but it does appear to be the same person. On the 1926 crossing, it indicates he was born in St. Austell, England and was a Methodist minister. His last permanent residence is listed as Drumbo, Ontario. He was going to a YMCA conference in New York. It also indicated he arrived in Montreal on the Metagama on 2 May 1915.
I found him on the Canadian passenger list however the arrival date was actually 1 May 1915. Here's a link to the image at Library and Archives Canada (he's on line 25):
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e145/e003601353.jpg
Jacquie
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Thank you everybody !! ...... for your information !
Was he on his own do you think ? .... I'm trying to figure out why he was there !! ???
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It just appears that he was travelling on church business both times.
The 1916 border crossing document is like a passenger list and he appears to be travelling to the YMCA College in NYC alone. The 1926 border crossing document is an individual card so I can't say whether he was going to the YMCA conference alone or not.
Jacquie
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So he must have been living in Canada .... don't you think Jacquie ?? :-\
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Good morning
I may be able to help a little with regard to Rev. Samuel Harry.
I am researching my Harry family who came from the vacinity of St Austell,Cornwall.
I came upon a Samuel Harry b4th Qtr 1862 St Austell who married 3rd Qtr 1890 Sarah Ida Bleathman from Churtsey.He was a son of Thomas Harry and Mary Ann Northey.
Samuel is listed on the 1871 Census at Union Rd St Austell aged 8.
It is my understanding that he was a printer,but became a Methodist minister in 1882.
He married Sarah Ida Bleathman.
According to my notes,he went to America ( ? via Canada) c1910 and may have died America C1912.
If we are speaking of the same family,he had two sons,Percy William and Gilbert.
Gilbert was born 1893 Guernsey Channel Isle.
He joined the A.I.F. and won the Military Medal twice in WW1.
He came to Australia 1910/12 and commenced farming.
I believe he may have died 1931.
According to the 1925 Electoral Roll he was a farmer at Kanyan.
I will be happy to add further information should anyone be interested.
Rex
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Hi Rex !
That is so cool !! ... this is the right family !! ..... don't know if you've seen this but this is what started the search !!
A highly decorated World War I soldier who is buried in an unmarked grave at a Gympie cemetery will soon get the recognition the RSL says he deserves.
Gilbert Harry was awarded the Military Medal and the Military Cross and Bar for bravery during action on the Western Front.
He was buried in Gympie in 1931.
His resting place remained anonymous until earlier this year and Gympie RSL president Ivan Friske says a headstone will be placed on his grave in the next couple of weeks.
"There would have been heaps that came back from war [who] just went about their business and no-one would have known anything about it but this man certainly was such a ... you could class him in the hero status, to go unnoticed is a real shame," he said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/24/2551760.htm
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I think the 1915 passenger list and the border crossing documents do seem to indicate that he was alive after 1912 and that he was living in Canada until at least 1926. Even though the age is out on the 1926 crossing, his physical description appears to be the same on both border crossing documents. I couldn't find him in the US on the 1930 census.
Jacquie
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Liverpool Annie
I am convinced I am researching the same family and will have information of interest.I may have a contact for the family.
What can I contribute please.
Rex
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I've sent you a PM Rex !
To be honest I'm not quite sure ...... I'm too excited to think !! :D :D :D
Annie :)
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Where are you Annie?
I don't think I received your latest PM.
I am trying to contact the Harry relative who was living Tweed Heads last year.
I am happy to field requests for information.
Do you have a contact for RSL Pres. Ivan Friske?
I am in Gisborne Victoria.
It is exciting!
Regards
Rex
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There is a book "Queensland Battlers" by John Wright which speaks about the war time deeds of Gilbert Harry.
I have a note that there is a Memorial at Milmerran to Gilbert Harry.
I don't even know where that is.
Rex
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Sorry ! I had company ... I had to tell them I was in the middle of something important !!!! :D :D
I'm in Colorado !! .... miles away from you !!
Let me see what I can find for RSL ( is that what you meant ? ) ..... I'd love for you to be in touch with them ... you never know you maybe on the TV in Australia !! :D
I'm going to find that memorial - and I'll let you know !!
Annie :)
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Heres the Memorial Rex !
Second row second from the left !! :)
http://www.qldwarmemorials.com.au/pages/AdditionalImg.aspx?Memorial=Millmerran%20War%20Memorial
http://www.qldwarmemorials.com.au/Memorial%20Photos/Millmerran%20WM_ST07.JPG
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There is a book "Queensland Battlers" by John Wright which speaks about the war time deeds of Gilbert Harry.
I have a note that there is a Memorial at Milmerran to Gilbert Harry.
I don't even know where that is.
Rex
Hi Rex
Millmerran is south west of Toowoomba on the roadto Goondiwindi. Gilbert is recorded on the 1913 electoral roll as living there.
Contact details for Gympie RSL
Gympie
Phone: 5483 7707
Email: rslagympie [at] bigpond.com
217 Mary Street, GYMPIE 4570
217 Mary Street, Gympie 4570
President: 5482 8238
Secretary: 5483 7707
Glen
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From the 1901 England census
183 Osmaston Road, Derby (St Andrew's Parish)
Isaac Brentnall, head, m, 44, Primitive Methodist miister, b Derby Wirksworth
Claudia Brentnall, wife, m, 36, b St Austell Cornwall
+6 children
Mary A Harry, Mother in Law, Widow, 65, Retired grocer, born St Austell Cornwall
Gilbert Harry, nephew, 8, b Guernsey C I
Class: RG13; Piece: 3216; Folio: 147; Page: 40.
He later served for 18 months in the Derbyshire Volunteers (like the Army Reserve) before being discharged as medically unfit. I'll be looking for this info on my next trip to the Archives at Kew.
Glen
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Thank you Spof.This is a connected family and your information should be of interest to a niece of Gilbert Harry who I have contacted today.So there is a living relative of Gilbert who will be extremely interested in the proposed memorial at Gympie.
Claudia Harry married Isaac Brentnall 25 Dec 1882 St Austell.She died Abberdare Wales 23 Apr 1905.
Claudia had two brothers,Charles and Samuel.
Samuel married Sarah Ida Bleathman.He became a Methodist minister and was the father of Gilbert and Percy.
Your help greatly appreciated.
Rex
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Rex
That is such wonderful news to hear that Gilbert's niece will know about the memorial. :D
i'm having difficulty finding any passenger records for him but if I can find his Volunteer service record in Kew, that should narrow it down a bit as you had to be 17 to enlist. If I can do anything else, let me know.
Glen
PS If Percy William was born at Swaffham in Norfolk in 1891, you'll love this comment on FreeBMD
"10/01/2007 This man was my father and he always celebrated his birthday on the 8th May and I think 1891"
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Thank you Glen.
I am sure Gilbert's niece is delighted and will read these postings.
I think he enlisted in the AIF in 1915.I think I have copies of his War service papers which I was able to download from the National Archives.
I have Percy William Harry b1891 Swaffham Norfolk.
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Glen
The comment on Free BMD to the effect "this man is my father" is a complete mystery as his only known daughter says she definitely did not leave that comment.Is there any way we can trace who left the message? She insists she was his only daughter.
We have not been able to find any record of the death of Percy William Harry.
Can you help further please?
Rex
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I just talked to Gilbert's niece and she's amazed that so many people are interested in her Uncle Gilbert !! :D :D
.... it's about time I say !! ...... he's been neglected too long !! :-\
Annie :)
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.... it's about time I say !! ...... he's been neglected too long !! :-\
Annie :)
I'll say.
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Hi All! ;D
There is a Samuel Harry bc 1863 Cornwall, living Kidderminster, Worcestershire, in the 1911 Census. There is at least one other Harry in the household; I've tried Sarah, Gilbert, William, Percy as other first names in the household - no result.
Kind regards
Gaie
Added: Mother Mary works !! Mary Ann Harry bc 1836 Cornwall.
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Thanks Gaie ! :D
I'm still wondering why Samuel was in Canada alone ( no wife or anybody else ! ) .... I read somewhere ... ( maybe it was in Gilbert's service papers ) that Samuel was recruiting ..... but why would he do that in Canada and the YMCA in America ?? :-\ .... I don't understand !
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Here is Samuel in the 1901 Census
Samuel Harry, head
Age: 38
Primitive Metodist Minster
Born: St. Austell, Cornwall
living in the County of Glouc.,
Civil Parish: West Dean (Part of)
Parl, Borough or Division: Forest of Dean
Karen
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Hi All
Karen's 1901 Census ref is: RG13, Piece 4921, Folio 82, Page 22; comes under Wales, Monmouthshire on An*est*y, but image has "Administrative County Gloucestershire".....
Samuel was living on his own; marked as married - did he not like his wife and children? ???
Kind regards
Gaie
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Percy was also involved in the war. He was in the London Electrical Engineers which is part of the Royal Engineers. He worked at the big military installations at Plymouth andDover as an electrical engineer. He helped keep the bases going to enable supplies to be sent to all the theatres the Allies were involved in - Palestine, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Africa etc.
More details to follow as I read the papers.
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Is this the same Glen ??
Submarine Mining
Royal Engineers Submarine Mining companies were formed in 1871 for coast defence by means of submerged charges which were fired electrically from the shore. They replaced a body of Submarine Miners, first raised in 1863.
In 1893, the Submarine Mining companies of the Royal Engineers were organised for the defence of British military and commercial ports at home and abroad by submarine mines and torpedoes. The distinction between these two engines of war being: a submarine mine is a large charge of gun-cotton or other explosive, fixed to the sea bottom, that can be fired on the approach of a hostile ship; while the torpedo is a locomotive weapon fired from the shore (or from a vessel, or structure in the water) and so arranged as to explode on striking a vessel. There were twelve submarine mining companies, stationed at home stations of Portsmouth, the Isle of Wight, Plymouth, Pembroke, Gravesend, Sheerness, Chatham, Harwich, and Cork Harbour, and abroad at Bermuda, Halifax and Malta. In addition to these companies, composed entirely of British troops, there were five companies, partially British and partially locally recruited, stationed at Ceylon, Hong Kong, Jamaica, Mauritius and Singapore.
In 1905/7 the Royal Engineers companies were disbanded and their work handed over to the Royal Navy. The Submarine Mining companies were abolished by Army Order 130 of June 1907. Soon after the Admiralty took over responsibility, the decision was taken to abandon controlled minefields for port defence.
The submarine miners were called "electrical engineers" (not to be confused with REME), and the titles (if not the functions) have remained in the Royal Engineers in the Territorial Army. 72 Engineer Regiment (Volunteers) carried the additional title "Tyne Electrical Engineers" until the 1992 Strategic Defence Review, when the regiment was disbanded. The title may still be carried by one of its former squadrons. The title "London Electrical Engineers", another territorial unit, expired in 1947.
Regimental History
"History of Submarine Mining in the British Army"; published in 1910.
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The memorial service at the Gympie Queensland grave of war hero Gilbert Harry will be held 10am Monday 22nd June.
Family will attend.