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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: Northerngirl on Thursday 21 May 09 09:34 BST (UK)

Title: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: Northerngirl on Thursday 21 May 09 09:34 BST (UK)
Hello to all.

I have been trying to trace the earliest recording for my Mills family in Gortmellia, County Mayo.  I note that there are three men who are subject to Griffith Valuation called Mills in that hamlet.  I wondered if anyone would know how I could find out when the earliest recording for them is?  I could start to gather information together regarding their family members thereafter - that is was it 1848 that the Mills were first recorded or perhaps 1851 or for the last year 1864?

Thank you.

J.A.
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 21 May 09 09:36 BST (UK)
each record has an associated date - e.g. on the AskAbout Ireland site (http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_family_search_form.php) you click the details icon, and the date for that valuation is shown.

some areas (e.g. parts of North County Dublin) have data for two dates, which is listed in some sources - e.g. origins network


Shane
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: Northerngirl on Thursday 21 May 09 09:41 BST (UK)
Oh Shanew147

Thank you very much - I'll have a look at the link now.

J.A.
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 21 May 09 09:44 BST (UK)
the 3 Mills records that I see in Gortmellia (Anthony, Darby & James) have a published date of 1855




Shane
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: Northerngirl on Thursday 21 May 09 09:50 BST (UK)
Wow Shane

What a brilliant source of information. Thank you so very much.  All I need to obsess about now is which plot belonged to who!!!!

J.A.
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: kingskerswell on Thursday 21 May 09 10:13 BST (UK)
Hello,
        If you use Shane's link not only can you find who held what, but the maps allow you to locate the position of the holdings in the townland.

Regards
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: Northerngirl on Thursday 21 May 09 10:17 BST (UK)
Hi Kingskerswell

I am having sooo much fun with this map - I've just popped into Gortmellia now.  Wow

J.A.
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: Northerngirl on Thursday 21 May 09 10:23 BST (UK)
Sooo.

It seems from the map information for 1855 that the land was as good as empty of farm building from where my grandparents lived in the 1920's.  Which means that they must have been down by the Strand at the waterside before 1855 ish.  Mmmm.  Very interesting.  Thank you once again.

J.A.
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: Seamiuse on Monday 04 October 10 18:20 BST (UK)
Here's th'Q..... I am looking at a particular fellow named Morrisroe. I have the griffiths map in front of me all divided and numbered for acres etc. Problem is this.... there are several Morrisroe's within very close distance and I want to make sure I read the section number correctly.

The notes say; position 27, map referance 2.

Question is does that mean he has section 17 on the map or section two?   I missing out on exactly what a "position" and what a "map ref" is.

Thanks!
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 04 October 10 18:28 BST (UK)
The individual plots of land in a townland are numbered on the map. This is what has to match with the plot reference on the Griffiths page. The plot reference is shown at the beginning of the line.

Sometimes smaller plots of land are sub-divided using letters - 15 a,b,c... etc


Shane
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: Seamiuse on Monday 04 October 10 22:39 BST (UK)
The notes says; position 27, map referance 2.

Question is does that mean he has section 17 on the map or section 2?   I am missing out on exactly what a "position" and what a "map ref" is.

Here's the map (part of it) for example
http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww316/CrvLvrs/Geneology/Griffiths-5.jpg
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: shanew147 on Tuesday 05 October 10 08:13 BST (UK)
...
The notes says; position 27, map referance 2.

Question is does that mean he has section 17 on the map or section 2?   I am missing out on exactly what a "position" and what a "map ref" is.
....

I dont think those references are relevant to the map location - the AskAboutIreland summary page uses the term 'position on page' to describe the line that contains the record selected on the actual Griffiths page.

I dont think the summary page includes the full plot references (often a number and letter), so you need to look at the actual Griffith's page to see the full detail. Click on one of the icons in the column headed 'original page'. The plot reference is on this page at the beginning of the line - this is captioned 'No. and letters of Reference on Map'

If you post a name and townland I can locate the plot of land for you to show you how...


Shane
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: Seamiuse on Tuesday 05 October 10 14:34 BST (UK)
Greetings Shane!

I appreciate the assistance, Thank You!

I am sure this is a no brainer, but something isn't making sense to me.

ok, here's the fellow we'll use for example;

Family Name 1      MORRISROE
Forename 1    JAMES
Landlord
Family Name 2    TAAFFE
Forename 2    RPS. CHRISTOPHER

Location
County    ROSCOMMON
Barony    FRENCHPARK
Union    SWINEFORD
Parish    TIBOHINE
Townland    CURRAGHSALLAGH
Place Name    CURRAGHSALLAGH
Place Type    TOWNLAND

Publication Details
Position on Page    17
Printing Date    1856
Act    15&16
Sheet Number    13
Map Reference    23;24

So my question is; When I look at the map is he in space 17 or 23 & 24?

The site I am using for this information is
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=43&Submit.y=5&Submit=Submit&familyname=morrisroe&firstname=First+Name&baronyname=&countyname=ROSCOMMON&unionname=&parishname=

Thanks Again!
S
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: shanew147 on Tuesday 05 October 10 15:12 BST (UK)
....
So my question is; When I look at the map is he in space 17 or 23 & 24?
.....

Not exactly - his property is part of plot 23/24... If you look at the actual Griffith's page, 17 lines down you will see the details for James. The column to the left of James's name reads 'h' and this is grouped using the brackets as being part of 23/24. So I'd say the full reference for James is 23/24 h

Due to the fact that the land for everyone under 23/24 (i.e. sub-plots a through i) is grouped under a single area and valuation figure, that the land is not sub-divided on the map. I've seen similar details on other records where cottages and small area are not indicated on the valuation or map.

I'll have a closer look at the map and get back to you...


Shane
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: shanew147 on Tuesday 05 October 10 17:56 BST (UK)
(details deleted... was looking at the incorrect townland... will have another look...)

I'm not sure that the property boundaries on the linked map agree with the Griffith's details. The valuation page includes properties numbered 1 to 35 with sub-division (a, b, c, etc), whereas the map shows divisions numbered 1 to 73.

The sum of all the property areas on the valuation (1099 acres) agrees with the caption on the map and on the townland database, but the sizes of the individual property sizes dont seem to match this. e.g. properties 22,23 and 24 are about the same size and yet they are indicated as 32, 103 and 12 acres on the valuation..

not sure if I'm missing something here...but will look a bit further..



Shane
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: Seamiuse on Tuesday 05 October 10 19:15 BST (UK)
I think you may be off a line Shane. It appears t'me (only when I use the giant magnifying glass lol) that the 32 you mention is for the fella above.
it looks to me by the grouping used on the side of the page that andrew, owen and Rep Gilbert all were noted for 103 acres and James further down at the luke cox property. This might explain your math.

but still, is there a reason that the letters aren't showing? Doesn't seem like the buildings description matches either. hmmmm those darn allusive Morrisroe's  LOLOL

also... referring to Gilbert, what is the designation "Reps"?
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: shanew147 on Tuesday 05 October 10 19:30 BST (UK)
....
also... referring to Gilbert, what is the designation "Reps"?
...

Reps usually means 'Representatives of' - i.e. the person mentioned is deceased and his representatives or potential beneficiaries are listed as temp. owners.


Shane


Shane
Title: Re: griffith valuations.
Post by: sydpinman on Wednesday 09 October 13 23:38 BST (UK)
Hi Shane
Very interesting.
My ancestors came from Gortmellia. My search ends at my GGrandparents James and Catherine Meenaghan, no records of their births (1850's) or marriage in 1852.
In a desperate search to find my GGGrandfather I'm checking on all the James Meenaghan's who are possibilities.
I've found a James Menaghan (misspelling) on the Griffith's Valuation and was wondering if there was any way of linking his lands to the addresses of the Meeneghan's (another misspelling) on the
1901 Irish Census.
I know it's a long shot but I'm looking forward to your reply.
Cheers
Phil Meenaghan
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 10 October 13 10:35 BST (UK)
Shane hasn't been online for a few months and may not reply for some time but in answer to your question- the valuation revision books which start from the date of printed Griffith's Valuation until c1930 allow you to trace the occupancy of a property. The ones for Northern Ireland have been put online (www.proni.gov.uk) but for the Republic of Ireland you'll need to visit the archives in Dublin.
http://www.moughty.com/blog/the-revision-books.html
Title: Re: griffith valuations for 1848 onwards - how to date the information?
Post by: sydpinman on Thursday 10 October 13 21:23 BST (UK)
Thanks aghadowey.
Another avenue to explore. :)