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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: nuff on Saturday 23 May 09 14:02 BST (UK)
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John James RABBITT bc 1865 Ashton u Lyne, Lancs, England
widower of Edith (1861-1898)
Information on another researcher's public family tree suggests that he emigrated to USA with a daughter, Catherine bc 1892 also Ashton uL.
Can some kind person with access to passenger lists / US records find evidence to support this?
I had thought that John had lost all his children in infancy and his wife in childbirth, but looking at the bmd index supports the possibilty that Catherine may have been his daughter and survived. An emigration would also explain the loss of track of him.
Thanks.
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SS Etruria, from Liverpool 28 May 1898 to New York 4 Jun 1898
Rabbitt, John, age 33, widow, insurance agent, nationality - Irish, last residence - Ashton, final destination - Chicago, Ill., never in US before, going to join sister & brother -in-law W. Kelly, 6730 (?) May St., Chicago
Rabbitt, Kate, age 6, single, nationality - Irish, last residence - Ashton, final destination - Chicago, Ill., never in US before
There are manifest markings on there that indicate he was/trying to get naturalized. See here for more info: http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/Manifests/
There's a John & Kate Rabbitt in Chicago on the 1900 Census that look like a close fit, but it says they were born in Ireland. You can see it free here: http://labs.familysearch.org/
SS Germanic from Liverpool 5 Feb. 1902 to New York, 14 Feb. 1902
Rabbitt, John, age 39, married, foreman, able to read & write, nationality - English, last residence - Liverpool, final destination - Chicago, in US in Chicago before, not going to join a relative, in good health
daughter Catherine, age 9, female, child, able to read & write, nationality - English, last residence - Liverpool, final destination - Chicago, in US in Chicago before, not going to join a relative, in good health
There's a possible obituary of one of Catherine/Kathleen Rabbitt's sons here: http://boards.ancestry.myfamily.com/localities.northam.usa.states.colorado.counties.larimer/1825/mb.ashx
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Thanks.
John's parents are probably Irish. I only have his birthplace from the 1881& 1891 UK census, but cannot find a corresponding birth register index entry. It could be he was born in Ireland, or simply regarded himself as Irish. Catherine is recorded as being born in Ashton. Would there be any immigration requirement that would make them claim to be Irish? In 1891 we have found John J Rabbitt married to Edith (died 1898), he was an insurance agent. In 1881 it appears to be the same John J living with parents Michael & Mary Rabbitt who are Irish.
The two entries you have found would match for Kate's age and the first would appear a good match except for the nationality. The second entry I note says in US before, so is this likely the same people having returned? I see it also says married, is there a wife on the manifest?
I am grateful for your help so far and appreciate any additional thoughts anyone may have. It is not a particularly important line for me, but is the first trans-atlantic search I have had to do. It would be nice to see it through.
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I don't see any other Rabbitts on that ship. There are John Rabbitt, age 34, and Kate Rabbitt, age 9, coming into Liverpool from New York on the SS Umbria in Jan. 1902, so I guess they went home briefly. No sign of a wife there, either, so putting him down as married may have been a mistake on that manifest.
If the tree on Ancestry is right, John died 18 Sep. 1902 in Chicago. There seems to be an entry on the death index that matches that: http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/death.html
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Thank you shellyesq.
I have now found an entry for John
Births Jun 1865 (>99%) RABBYT John James Ashton 8d 381
which together with the marriage record
BOWDEN Edith RABBITT John James 1888 Ashton under Lyne Civil Marriage
makes me fairly confident this is the right fellow, even if he is a bit careless with his age.
I wanted to be careful because I am aware of another Rabbitt family living in Ashton at the same time who were even more Irish. Although I never found a sign of a John amongst them I didn't want to miss a possible cross over, (I have learnt to be wary of some published trees).
The links you have given are very interesting and already suggest several possible follow ups.
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SS Etruria, from Liverpool 28 May 1898 to New York 4 Jun 1898
Rabbitt, John, age 33, widow, insurance agent, nationality - Irish, last residence - Ashton, final destination - Chicago, Ill., never in US before, going to join sister & brother -in-law W. Kelly, 6730 (?) May St., Chicago
If anyone could be generous enough to follow this line a little further;
Is it possible from this address to see who W Kelly was and his family? Also if John died in 1902 does Kate end up with her relations in a later census?
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There was a Catherine Rabbitt who married in Chicago in 1935:
RABBITT, CATHERINE SCARO, DAVID L. Marriage 1440639 3/4/1935
Any way to determine the first name of John's sister who was married to W. Kelly? Seem to be four (4) born Ashton 1858-1871.
Nick
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I noticed on the 1900 US census that there was more than one Kate/Katie Rabbitt listed in Chicago. There was a Kate Rabbitt with John (born Aug 1864 in Ireland, widowed, day labourer) who was born Jan 1893 in Ireland while the other, Katie Rabbit, was a pupil at a girls' school and was born Mar 1892 in England. The strange thing is that John and Kate have an immigration year listed as 1894 while Katie at the girls' school immigration year is listed as 1898.
Jacquie
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Any way to determine the first name of John's sister who was married to W. Kelly? Seem to be four (4) born Ashton 1858-1871.
Nick
This is what I have on the Rabbitt s;
It suggests sisters are Margaret, Catherine and Mary.
1861
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2980; Folio: 53; Page: 19; GSU roll: 543059.
ashton
Michael Rabbit 30 /Mary Rabbit 26 /Michal Rabbit 4 /Margret Rabbit 2 /Edward Rabbit 5 Mo /Margret Roach 52 /Patrick Burkes 25 /Thomas Kelly 25
1871
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4072; Folio: 138; Page: 14; GSU roll: 846351.
Ashton
Michael Rabbit 36 Ireland, Cotton Grinder
Mary Rabbit 37 Ireland
Michael Rabbit 14 Lancs, Ashton uL, Cotton Piecer
Margaret Rabbit 12 do.do, Heald Knitter
Catherine Rabbit 8 do.do, scholar
John James Rabbit 6 do.do, scholar
Thomas Rabbit 3 do.do, scholar
1881
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4039; Folio: 24; Page: 4; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341965.
Ashton
Michael Rabbitt 47 /Mary Rabbitt 44 /Michael Rabbitt 23 /Margt. Rabbitt 21 /Catherine Rabbitt 17 /John J. Rabbitt 15 /Thomas Rabbitt 13 /Mary Rabbitt 10
1891
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3279; Folio 12; Page 18; GSU roll: 6098389.
Ashton
Michael Rabbitt 54 /Mary Rabbitt 53 /Michael Rabbitt 30 /Thomas Rabbitt 23 /Mary Rabbitt 19
1891
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3277; Folio 89; Page 24; GSU roll:
6098387.
54 Turner Lane, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire.
John J Rabbitt 25 Insurance Agent Ashton u Lyne Lancs
Edith Rabbitt 30 Dressmaker & Stocking knitter Ches, Winsford
[/b]
There were other families in Ashton
1861
RG9; Piece: 2980; Folio: 60; Page: 34
Michael Rabbit 28/ Mary Rabbit 32/ James Rabbit 3/ Ellen Rabbit 1
RG9; Piece: 2985; Folio: 38; Page: 26
Patrick Rabbet 26 / Sarah Rabbet 26/ Sarah Rabbet 1/ John Rabbet 9 Mo
but I think I have separated these, but they would account possibly for the Sarah Rabbyt in the birth index for 1859. (I cannot find a death or any other match for Sarah)
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I noticed on the 1900 US census that there was more than one Kate/Katie Rabbitt listed in Chicago. There was a Kate Rabbitt with John (born Aug 1864 in Ireland, widowed, day labourer) who was born Jan 1893 in Ireland while the other, Katie Rabbit, was a pupil at a girls' school and was born Mar 1892 in England. The strange thing is that John and Kate have an immigration year listed as 1894 while Katie at the girls' school immigration year is listed as 1898.
Jacquie
This does throw in a big question!
I have downloaded and looked at the census sheet and found where you said the imigration year was given as 1894. I did not know of this before. Given that his wife Edith died (probably in childbirth) in Apr-Jun 1898 1 and the likely match with the Eturia manifest 28th May 1898 (even that seems a bit precipitous) which says they have not been to the USA before, either there is a large error (6 years instead of 2!) or we have the wrong people.
Catherine's birth was recorded in the Apr-Jun quarter 1892, so Katie doesn't quite fit either unless her birth was recorded very late. Was Katie's school a boarding school? Are there any other John Rabbitts around that could be her father?
Back to the begining.... :-\
1 freebmd Deaths Jun 1898 (>99%)
Rabbitt Edith 37 Ashton 8d 314
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The school was called the Chicago Industrial School for Girls and the census entry was in Chicago Ward 32, Cook County, Illinois (page 2B). Katie is on line 59 (the numbering starts at 51 on the page). From the information I found, it was a school for dependent girls. Here's a link to a brief entry about it:
http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/606.html
The birth you found that was registered in the Apr-Jun quarter does seem to fit the Industrial School Katie much better. I've seen some family trees that seem to suggest that the 1892 birth was on 13 Mar (see below) so a birth registered in April is not that late.
On the 1910 US census, the only Cat*/Kat* Rab*t in Illinois that I can find was born in 1894 but she was living with her widowed mother, Mary and was born in Illinois.
I have seen some family trees posted on line that are just as confusing. I've seen more than one that has a Catherine/Kathleen Rabbitt, born 13 Mar 1892 in England marrying Frank Reginald Jenkins on 16 Dec 1909 in Chicago. They say she died 6 Jul 1975 in Stark County, Ohio. I've also seen trees that say Frank's wife was named Kathleen Rabbitt Tweedale and she was born in Dublin on 13 Mar 1892. The marriage and death information are the same. I couldn't find Frank and Catherine/Kathleen on the 1910 census but did find Frank and Katherine Jenkins on the 1920 census in East Chicago Ward 5, Lake County, Indiana with a bunch of children (the eldest was just over 9 years old). That Katherine was 27, born England, parents born England but her immigration years is said to be "unknown".
Getting a copy of the birth registration for Catherine, the marriage certificate for this marriage to Frank Jenkins and the death certificate for John James Rabbitt might be the only way to sort this out.
Jacquie
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Frank and Kathleen Jenkins are in Perry, Stark County, Ohio on the 1930 census with their 12 children. Kathleen was 38, married at age 18, born England, parents born England and her immigration year is listed as 1897. Since it isn't unusual for an immigration year to be off by a year this would seem to match the Chicago Industrial School for Girls' Katie better than the other Kate.
Jacquie
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I have seen some family trees posted on line that are just as confusing.
.........
Getting a copy of the birth registration for Catherine, the marriage certificate for this marriage to Frank Jenkins and the death certificate for John James Rabbitt might be the only way to sort this out.
Jacquie
Many thanks Jacquie.
I too have seen the trees you refer to. The discrepancies amongst them were one of the reasons I wanted to follow this through a bit. It seems very likely that John did emigrate with a daughter Catherine, but it also seems that there may have been several Rabbitts in the field.
Going to the certificates, as you say, would possibly help fill in a few more details, although knowing my luck would probably just add more questions. If expense allows I may eventually follow that route.
The obituary referenced in one of the above replies appears to fit the Jenkins marriage and refers to 15 children. If Katie was in the industrial school in 1900 it is possible her father was already absent from her life, adding to the sad story.Possibly there may be oral tradition still within that family that may shed light if I can make contact.
As I mentioned earlier, this is a bit of a side branch which has has been of interest in its tragedy and novelty in dealing with US references. It may have to wait for time and inspiration (and a lot more help)
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Kathleen Rabbitt, born 1892 to John Rabbitt and Edyth Bowden. In 1891, they lived in Ashton, Cheshire, England and John was an insurance agent and Edyth a dressmaker and stocking knitter. Edyth died in 1898 at age 37 and John and Kate immigrated to the U.S. In 1900, they lived on 43rd Street in Chicago, IL. John died in 1902, at the age of 34, his occupation was listed as butcher. This left 10 year old Kate an orphan. She was adopted by friends/neighbors who lived on the same street, Thomas and Dorothy Tweedale. They moved to East Chicago, IN sometime before 1908. Thomas was a police officer there. Kate married Frank "Jesse" Jenkins in December 1909.
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Thanks lisadiaz,
It may be 6 years on, but I still haven't followed this one through, but strangely enough I was looking at the manifests only last week wondering how best to get to the US 1910 census details.
The information you state fits pretty well with what we have drawn together with the help above and the Tweedale connection explains the arrival of that name.
Is this part of your own family? My wife is of Bowden descent.
If you have more info it would be well appreciated.
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The following is old enough to be out of copyright and may be of some interest:
The Lake County Times
Hammond, Indiana
Dec. 18, 1909
Officer's Daughter Elopes
(Special to The Times)
Indiana Harbor, Ind., Dec. 18--The following is a message received by Mrs. Thomas Tweedale: "Jesse and I were married yesterday. Will be home tomorrow." (signed) Kate.
Such was the message that came by wire Thursday afternoon to Mrs. Thomas Tweedal, whose husband is Officer Tweedle of the local police force. The message was from the 18-year-old daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Tweedale and caused quite a stir in the family, as no one had the slightest inkling that matrimony was in Miss Kate's mind when she took her departure from the parental roof-tree Wednesday, ostensibly to visit friends in Chicago for a couple of days.
"Jesse," whose surname is Jenkins, and to whom reference was made in the dispatch, is a roller in the Inland mill and is called a good fellow by his friends. The couple have known each other for about three months. Miss Tweedle is an attractive young girl, well liked in the circles in which she moves.
"There won't be any row when they comeback," said Officer Tweedale when interviewed on the question of the run-away match yesterday. "Of course we were surprised, but its all right and we propose to have a little doings for the youngsters to celebrate the event."
In the meantime, the culprits have returned, received the parental blessings and everybody is happy. Their plans for the future have not yet been made.
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:D
Thanks. I'm sure that will be considered reasonable quotation <gr>
It is a perfect human touch to the story, which I'm sure the family (still in Ashton) will appreciate.