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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Topic started by: glitter2009 on Friday 12 June 09 21:29 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can anyone please help me ......... I am trying to find a relative on the 1911 census, I have searched for most possiable names, but I might be missing something.
I am looking for :
Alfred Leopold STAFFORD
DOB 1882 Toxteth Park, Liverpool
In 1891 he was in Burnley
In 1901 he was in Clerkenwell, London
Thanks :)
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Have a look at the suggestions here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,492718.0.html
I often find that entering less detail results in more chances of finding someone.
Nell
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I have looked at all the possiable match's, but no luck - just used my credits up ..............
Maybe he was playing hide & seek at the time of the census !!!!!!!
Would they be able to find him at the LMA ??
Thanks
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Do you know where he was when he died ?
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Hi,
Could he have been abroad at the time? What was his last known occupation?
Nanny Jan
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He does seem to be a little elusive..
Did he marry? Any children? When and where were they born?
Milly ;D
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Thanks for messages guys :)
He died in 1936 in Fylde, Lancashire.
In 1901 census he was in Clerkenwell, London as a penmaker.
He had a son in 1923 in Greenwich, but I am not sure of he was his biological Father.
I do not know i he ever married as I cannot find anything, the only person who he might have married was someone called Elsie Ould, but I do not know anything about her and cannot find a marriage between them.
All I know is she is my Grandfathers Mother and she deserted him, but I am not sure at what age this happened.
Its just so annoying, as I want to find him, so I know what he was up to ..... :(
Thanks for your help :)
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very curious... ??? ??? and a little confusing...
Are you saying that Alfred Leopold Stafford is believed to be the named father of your grandfather born 1923 in Greenwich? And that Elsie was definitely his mother?
Do you have a birth cert for your grandfather and if so - what does it say? (Don't post this info if he is still alive though)
Or have I misunderstood and Alfred is connected in some other way..?
Milly
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Hi Milly
Thanks for coming back to me. Its ok for me to write about them, as they are all deceased.
My Grandfather was born Alfred John Stafford Collier (on his Birth cert), but somewhere along the line he dropped the ‘Collier’ surname, and went by ‘Stafford’, as his surname.
On his birth cert it states his Father is Alfred Collier and Mother Elsie Ould, but I cannot find a marriage between these 2 people, and I do not know anything about them.
Alfred John Stafford was brought up by Alfred Leopold Stafford, so there must be a connection with him somewhere, because of the name, but when he died in 1936 in a institution in Blackpool, Alfred John was sent to Barnados. :(
I know his Mother Elsie Ould deserted him, but I am not sure at what age. :( :(
It would of been nice to of found Alfred Leopold in 1911, as then I could of known a bit more about him.
I can email you a copy of AJS birth cert and ALS Death cert if you PM me, but I don’t think this will help alot.
Thanks for helping :)
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Hi
I've just realised that Alfred Leopold is your mysterious Fancy Goods Maker from Blackpool. He is causing a lot of trouble isn't he? ;D ;D ;D
I've had a look around with various combinations of names and still can't see him in 1911. Like you I can find no marriage for Elsie Ould and Alfred Collier (or Stafford).
The only link to Collier I can see is that Alfred's sister Amy appears to have married a Collier.
No sign of anyone called Afred though. In 1911 they are married with a daughter and living in Fylde (possibly why Alfred was living in Fylde when he died?)
Mar 1906 Fylde 8e 987
COLLIER Reginald Peter
Stafford Amy Beatrice
Reginald does have a sister called Elsie M Collier in 1891 census ???
This Elsie Ould is probably too old and in wrong location anyway - but just to discount her...
OULD Elsie Madeleine born 1880 in Stalybridge and lived in Birkenhead.
She married Hugh Stirling ASHWORTH in Dec 1907...and in 1911 Census they have children and are living in Sussex. No sign of a marriage of an Elsie Ashworth to a Collier.
Also - Did Alfred Leopold's mother Betsy die and his father remarried Phoebe? It says Betsy on his birth cert but later Census has Phoebe as mother. (Of course I cannot find a marriage for Alfred and Phoebe! Perhaps it is still Betsy under another name)
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Any thoughts anyone??
Milly
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Hi Milly,
Thanks for looking for me - Alfred is a mystery ...........its soooooo annoying.
He seems like he was a bit of a wheeler dealer !!!!!
I also found a few Elsie Ould's but I think the one which you mentioned is too old, and there is not really any links to connect her with my Alfred.
The others died, and the only one still called Elsie Ould lived in Cornwall in 1911.
Maybe there was a cover up somewhere with Elsie Ould, maybe she wasn't Alfred John's real Mother ...... I am in the process of trying to look for any electoral registers in the London area, but I have to visit in person. I thought this might tell me who was living at the address's on AJS Birth Cert.
Maybe Reginald's Sister Elsie, was a link somewhere along the line ???
ALS Mother was called Betsy Haworth, and she later died, and his Father remarried Phoebe.
As you said I cannot find a marriage between them, but I think she must of been a relative of Betsy's.
:)
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You could be right about Phoebe.. There is a family in 1871 in Darwen with father George Howarth (a farmer), mother Betsy, daughter Betsy Howarth born 1852 and sister Phebe Howarth born 1855. Could this be them?
RG10/4190/161/p32
http://www.rootschat.com/links/06ih/
Also the daughter Mabel's middle name is Haworth on the 1911 Census. I presume this is Phoebe's daughter as she is only 1 month old in the 1891 and that Betsy died (age 35) Q Jun 1888 Burnley 8e 151
(younger children Percy & Ethel also have Haworth as middle name)
Still can't find a marriage for Phoebe though. If you looked at original 1911 census it should say how long they say they were married. (There was not much time between 1888 and 1891 for them to marry so maybe they didn't marry then but did it later or not at all)
OR Phoebe was previously married and widowed which is why she married Alfred. So the marriage would not be listed under Howarth/Haworth.
But this still doesn't help with Alfred Leopold does it?
Milly ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks for coming back to me.
The Census states that they had been married for 22 years, but I still cannot see a marriage on Free BMD for them ??
On the origianal report it states that they have 6 children, 4 still living and 2 died, but I think they may have got this wrong.
They was living at :
17 Chase Street, Blackpool.
As you said it still doesnt help with finding Alfred Leopold in 1911 census .......
I will still carry on looking, I might find a lead one day !!!
Thanks :)
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22 years fits the 1888-1891 gap from death of Betsy to birth of Mabel....but still no sign of it.
The information on number of children only relates to Phoebe and John (not his children with Betsy) so 4 living and 2 died is possible. On an earlier census (1901) there was also daughter Minnie who could be the fourth living child.
There is a Minnie Stafford (born 1895 Blackburn) living in Bury in 1911 census which could be her. (I couldn't work out much else but she could be living with Lillie Stafford born Burnley 1877 and Janet Warren b 1887 - but check original as I am not 100% about this. ) I think Lillie could be Minnie's half sister (or possibly a sister-in-law?). Not sure who Janet Warren is.
But still no Alfred... ::) ::)
Maybe he was abroad, or in the army or in jail! I expect he will turn up one day..
Milly
;D ;D ;D
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Thanks for your help Milly.
I will look into the other family members in the 1911 census, as this might help me.
I hope he does turn up one day !!!! Fingers Crossed ......
:) :)
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Just been told that ALL the 1911 census are now out to view, but I still cannot find Alfred Leopold, so he must of been in hiding !!!!
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Glitter
I can't assist with the search bit of the census but the "Chase St" you have for the address in Blackpool will more than likely be Charles Street. This street still runs eastwards from the outskirts of todays town centre toward Layton - near to where Broughton Avenue is - the last address you have for your most annoyingly elsuive Alfred Leopold.
M
PS As his father's address is within walking distance of Alfred's address and Alfred's sister Amy is in and around the area why not follow that line as i see there were descendants (that could be "are" descendants hence no names here) If they themselves are traceable they may be able to assist you as to the whereabouts of their great/uncle.
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Hi Mair,
Looking closer I think the road says ' Clare Street'.
I am in the process of trying to look into the others members of the family, as this might give me a clue as to the wear abouts of Alfred Leopold ......
I am waiting on some information from the local records office on where abouts he was buried, and about how long he was in the workshouse for.
I will let you know when this arrives.
:) :)
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Bang goes that theory then ???
There is a Clare Street too in the centre of South Shore
Bah- typical!
Mair
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hey. I'm replying to the thread about betsy and phobe howeth. it is true that they were sisters. When Betsy died Phoebe then married her husband and had illigitamate children. How do i know this you may ask? well i am phoebe's great great great granddaughter. She had several children, percy, minnie, mabel and others who i cannot remember from the top of my head. Mabel then went on to have three children one of which is still alive. (and turns 90 next week!) If you would like more information or any photographs if this is the lead you are looking for then i am very happy to help. as we have recently found 6 generations of pictures.
emma xxx
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Hi Emma
Welcome to Rootschat! How exciting...I can't wait for glitter to come online.
Milly ;D ;D
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Emma
I am in touch with glitter by e mail - I will ask her to PM you - I thought there had to be a line of the family still around....
M
PS a hearty welcome to roots!
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Hi. i am hopefully going to speak to my aunty who knows more about this stuff also my nan has a fair idea about what happened. unfortunately as my great grandmother is turning 90 on monday she does not remember things with the clarity she used to. I have a photograph of both John Edward Stafford and Phoebe Haworth.
I would be pleased to help as much as I can and will forward this site onto my aunty who may wish to speak with you as she is tracing our family tree.
Emma
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Hiya - some more info for you!
after speaking to my aunty i have found some more info.
John Edward was married before betsy and phoebe. We are not 100% sure but think she may have been called ELSIE!!!? They had several children one of which was Alfred Leopald so that is where the connection comes from. So very distantly i think we are actually related!!!!! I am giving this site details to my aunt who is very interested in tracing the family tree back as far as possible so any dates would be greatly appreciated by any one.
emma
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Hi,
This is a message for glitter2009, emmaa and Mair.
It seems we are researching the same family. I am looking into the Stafford family for a friend, the granddaughter of Percy Howarth Stafford MM, the brother of Mabel and stepbrother of Alfred Leopold. I have traced the Stafford family back to the early 18th century. Also I have tracked down records of Phoebe's marriage to John Edward and Amy Beatrice's to Reginald Peter Collier along with John Edward and Betsy's five children, which include Amy and Alfred.
I am particularly interested in filling the gaps in the 20th century history of the family and tracking down any photos and memorabilia. Emma, you may be able to help there. By the way, I assume, if my research is right, Ethel is the daughter of Mabel who has just celebrated her 90th birthday. Unfortunately, I have to report that her cousin, Ivor, one of Percy's sons, passed away in 2008 at the age of 2008.
I suggest that we make contact and share our knowledge.
Graeme
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Hi Graeme,
Welcome to Rootschat.
This is great being in contact with people who are related distantly.
I thought I had hit a brick wall with finding family members !!!
I have sent you a private email.
Karen :) :)
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Hi Graeme,
I tried to send you a PM but for some reason Roots said that I could'nt as you had too many !!! (Not sure what this means)
I was just wondering how your search was going, and if you got my last e-mail.
Kind Regards
Karen :)
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Graeme will need three posts before he can receive or send PMs, RootsChat policy to prevent spam.
Keziah :)
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Karen,
I did get your e-mail, which included your personal address. I did reply to this along with my e-mail address. However, it obviously did not get through so I will resend it.
Regards,
Graeme
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Hi Emma,
Did you get my PM ?
:) :)