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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: jh1247 on Friday 10 July 09 14:11 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I am tracing Lionel Wyndham Pearson Doherty, born 1885c Bega,NSW and his brother Charles William, born 1887c to Stratford and Mary Doherty.
Some time after their births, Stratford shot through to Victoria and married Elizabeth Cornish in the Brighton VIC area I think.
I am unable to find anything on Lionel and Charles in NSW. Maybe they followed their father to Victoria after their mother (Mary) died in 1937.
Regards,
John.
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Hi John
I am not sure if you have this info off the NSW online BDM index
Birth
20501/1887
Charles E W Doherty
Father- Shadford C
Mother - Mary L
District - Bega
Birth
18932/1885
Lancelot W P Doherty
Father - Stratford C
Mother - Mary L
District - Bega
Are these your boys ?
Troods
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A link
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=c2e2c026206a251a6840b9b855ddbf4b&topic=391059.new
Jamjar
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It does seem that your Lionel's name was in fact Lancelot.
http://www.monaropioneers.com/Hayes-j.htm
Jamjar
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Just been googling and found this here
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/2862632?lookfor=stratford doherty&offset=1&max=1
Stat dec by a Stratford Doherty 13 Jan 1903
See what you think?????
Troods
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It appears then that Mary, the boys' mother was not Stratford's wife.
I see no marriage before the births in NSW and the little biography does not mention it either.
Sue
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Here it is:
1884 Startford C DOHERTY Mary L HAYES BEGA
NSW BDM
Jamjar
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And is this the same man - marriage and birth in Vic
DOHERTY Stratford born Brighton
CORNISH Elizabeth Jane born Adelaide SA.
1894 Reg# 3460
Birth
DOHERTY Stratford George
Father Stratford Mother Elizabeth CORMICK
At Carlton 1895 Reg#10512
and a couple of deaths
DOHERTY Stratford Canning
Father Doherty Charles William Mother Julia PEARSON
At Prahran 75 years 1928 Reg#3426
DOHERTY Stratford George
Father Stafford Can Mother Elizabeth CORNISH
At Fitzroy 73 years 1970 Reg#17417
Cando
Edit : add place of birth for Elizabeth CORNISH.
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Australian Electoral Rolls
Vic 1903
DOHERTY Stratford Grange Road, Toorak Orderley
1909
DOHERTY Stratford 32 Clarke Street, Prahran Commissionaire
DOHERTY Elizabeth Jane 32 Clarke Street, Prahran HD
1914 at 33 Chatsworth Road, Prahran - same occupation
1924 at 24 Stanhope Street, Malvern Caretaker
The link given by troods to the NLA is on a previous thread linked by jamjar.
Cando
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I can't find marriages/deaths in NSW for Lancelot/Lionel or Charles.
Jamjar
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I haven't been able to find any electoral listings either.
So do we have a case of bigamy here?
There are many requests on various forums about Stratford Canning DOHERTY and after reading them I don't think we have found anything not already known however we can't seem to find anything about his sons of his first marriage.
Perhaps our resident library sleuth judb may be able to have a look at the Stat Dec at the NLA ;D
Cando
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So, were the boys in Sydney?
John, where in Sydney was the cremation?
Who was the informant on her death certificate?
Jamjar
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I'll be at the Nat Lib on Wed/Thurs probably so will have a read of that document then. 8)
Judith
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Hi,
Further details to answer. The 1921 electrol roll for Bega area, Lionel was still living with his mother, no sign of his brother Charles.
Both boys were listed as "living" on their mothers death certificate 1937.
She died in Bega then cremated in Sydney (wonder why).
Apparently Stratford Doherty got around a bit. Left England for Australia did some work around the Riverina area, went back to England. Then sailed off to Nova Scotia, Canada failed there, then eventually arrived back in Australia. Joined the Police Force at Bega NSW, didnt last long. After marrying Mary Hayes and giving birth to 2 sons shot through to Victoria without saying goodbye.
No divorce records either.
John
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Yes, it seems odd to bring her all the way to Sydney. Maybe it was cheaper than the family all going to Bega.
Maybe Lionel - I much prefer Lancelot - and Charles went overseas. May have had their father's itchy feet.
Stratford was a bit of a cad, wasn't he? :o
Maybe it put the two lads off marriage. :-\
Jamjar
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Hi John
Thank you for you pm's. I have responded by pm as it is my understanding that pm's should not to be copied and pasted on to the boards.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
As the name says, Personal Messages are personal and private - do not publish PMs on the public boards !
John I have tried to find Elizabeth Jane CORNISH's birth in Adelaide SA for you. However there doesn't seem to be a death on the Vic indexes with the same parents names. Have you searched for or found her death?
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando,
I have done a research on Elizabeth Cornish many years ago I think I had some trouble
Regards,
John.
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http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
As the name says, Personal Messages are personal and private - do not publish PMs on the public boards !
John,
I have read the above information provided by Cando and have removed your PM information from the board.
I posted the information as there was nothing personal in it and all had been previously stated in your postings.
I would suggest that you use this board, rather than sending me PMs, to discuss matters pertaining to your search.
Jamjar
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John could you please type up the details on Stratford's death certificate eg place and date of burial. We could then check the cemetery to see if Elizabeth Jane is buried with him. I am unable to locate a DOHERTY death with a CORNISH father.
There is this birth :-\ The mother's surname looks 'odd' - wonder if it has been mistranscribed. Do you have Stratford's and Elizabeth Jane's marriage certificate?
CORNISH Elizabeth Jane
14 Mar 1868
Father John CORNISH Mother Elizabeth MCCAHEY
At Port Adelaide Ade 62/94
Cheers
Cando
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And this death. On the 1924 Electoral Roll Stratford and Elizabeth Jane were living at Malvern. I wonder if incorrect parents surnames have been given :-\ I have seen stranger things on death certs ;) I wonder who was the informant?
The given names are the same as on the birth reg in South Australia.
DOHERTY Elizabeth Jane
Father Doherty John Mother Elizabeth DIXON
At Malvern 56 years 1925 Reg#14182
John you mentioned Brighton.....perhaps they are buried at Brighton Cemetery. Unfortunately there are no online burial records. Would you please check on Stratford's death certificate....and is it noted whether or not Stratford was a widow in 1928?
Hopefully we can at least help you with this area of his life, if not with his sons of his first marriage. I wonder if it would be worth having a look at the fiche of Queensland deaths to 1964 :-\ Strange however that there are no online electoral roll listings for either of them.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando,
First I wish to apoligise, you are correct. Stratford age 75 was buried 24th March 1928 at Brighton Cemetery. His death certificate states as follows... He died 24th March 1928 at Alfred Hospital Melbourne. (Buried same day)
Parents.. Charles William Doherty. Clergyman. Julia Pearson.
He was married in Fitzroy, age 29, wife Elizabeth Jane Cornish (deceased)
Issue.. George Stratford Doherty. 36 yrs.
Informant.. ? Mcmicken, Authorised agent Alfred Hospital.
I dont have their marriage as yet.
Regards,
John.
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John you could contact either of these sites who could see if Stratford was buried with Elizabeth Jane.
http://www.brightoncemetorians.org/research.asp
http://www.brightoncemetery.com.au/contact_us.html
Cheers
Cando
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http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/2862632?lookfor=stratford doherty&offset=1&max=1
I've been and had a read of this document which details Stratford's life up till the date of the document, 1903 - except that there is no mention of any marriages or children, although I must admit I didn't read all that carefully.
His parents were the late Rev Charles William Doherty late Vicar of Worle near Weston-Super-Mare and Julia nee Pearson dau of the late Samuel Pearson.
Siblings: Amy died as an infant
John Lionel Wyndham Doherty
Madeline Julia Haultain Doherty now wife of Thomas Guest.
He came to Australia on the Grassmere (no date given) as an apprentice and ran away from the ship in Melbourne. He worked on a couple of stations in Sthn NSW - Tooma and Borambola. Brother Lionel arrived in Oct 1880 on the Aconcagua. Stratford went to UK using his brother's return ticket on the Cotopaxi 16 Nov 1880. Then to Halifax on the Durham, bought a farm, not successful, returned to England, then to Sydney on the Potosi beginning 1882. Sworn in as a Cponstable 4 July 1882, resigned 1887.
In Tassie 1888 and 1889, back to Melbourne......... etc etc.
I think the stat dec may have been to gain some of an inheritance from his mother. He is quite a name-dropper and one wonders if all of this is true. However it does explain what he has been doing, back and forth across the world!
John, I am happy to photograph the document for you but the National Library will do it and post it for $13.20 or you can have it scanned by them. This way you will get a good copy and not need to rely on my amateur efforts!!
Go to the item in the catalogue with the link above and click on the "Copies Direct" button at the bottom of the page. I had no idea they are so reasonably priced - having had quotes from record offices in UK for items to be copied.
It is a fascinating story and I wish some of my lot had left such a wealth of information.
Cheers, Judith
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Hi Judith,
Many thanks for your time and effort, i really appreciate it.
You are correct with your description of Stratford. I have local newspaper snippets of him when he was at Bega, NSW as a Police Officer, he did not have a good reputation whilst in the force.
I will persue the document through the National Archives.
Once again, thank you very much.
Regards,
John.
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It's the National Library, John. Anyhow you should get it through the link :)
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Hello! My name is Kiera and Stratford's sister Madeline Doherty is my great great grandmother, and she married Samuel guest (my great great grandfather) and William Guest. I do not know if Stratford was buried with Elizabeth Jane, but he did die in 1928. My grandfather traced back the family tree very far, so I am happy to answer any questions!