RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: Meg jr on Tuesday 14 July 09 21:29 BST (UK)
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Good evening,
I wonder if I could ask for help on behalf of a friend of mine researching the Groundwater family from Aberdeen who emigrated to Toronto, York County please in the 1850's.
Alexander Lyell Groundwater married Jane McKenzie in Scotland. They had a son called Edward in 1854 in Scotland. In 1859 Alexander remarried in Canada and can be found on the 1861 census on the same page as his brother Watson, other Groundwaters and a boy called Hugh. The relationship of Hugh is not known.His place of birth is recorded as Ireland.
Despite searching for a burial or a death record for Jane McKenzie Groundwater none can be found in Aberdeen. If Hugh is Jane and Alexanders son was he born on board ship on route to Canada, did Jane die at this time perhaps. Or did she die in Canada.
1856/7 is the approximate date that Alexander left for Canada. I have been unable to find any record of him on ships leaving or arriving. His son Edward is recorded back in Scotland by 1871 as Alexander dies in 1863.
Anyone with knowledge of York County can hopefully advise what burial grounds would have been operational in the late 1850's.
I will also post this on the Scotland board in case Jane died in Scotland and is buried there.
If Jane died during the voyage where would the death be recorded? I have tried the death registers at sea, but nothing can be found.
Any references to this family in either Scotland or Canada would be helpful for me to follow up. I have searched the Ships List website and many other emigration websites, but cannot find anything mentioning Alexander and Jane.
Would love to find out what happened to Jane and who Hugh is
Thank you for your time
Meg
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Would you have years of birth for Alexander and Jane, please?
St. James Cemetery is Toronto's oldest operating cemetery. It opened in July 1844:
http://www.stjamescathedral.on.ca/Cemetery/tabid/64/Default.aspx
St. Michael's is a Catholic cemetery; it opened in 1855.
I'm sure there are other old cemeteries; these are the only ones I know about.
The Ontario Cemetery Finding Aid is constantly adding information to their database. As of this time, there are five Groundwater's listed. It is only an index, so there isn't too much information:
http://www.islandnet.com/ocfa/homepage.html
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Could Alexander have been a bookkeeper? Toronto City Directory for 1859-60.
http://digitalcollections.torontopubliclibrary.ca/webDC/portlets/resultDetail/popup/viewLarger.jsp
This Alexander was a bookkeeper on Wellington Avenue. Because there isn't an address, we can't tell what the cross street would have been. St. James Cemetery is quite close to Wellington Street, so there's a chance that the family used this cemetery.
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Possible residence in 1861:
http://digitalcollections.torontopubliclibrary.ca/webDC/portlets/resultDetail/popup/viewLarger.jsp
(41 Alice Street)
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My ancestor and possibly your friend's ancestor were almost neighbours in 1860:
Ovens, John, fancy goods and Berlin wool, 219 Yonge st. (my ancestor)
Groundwater, - book-keeper, 346 Yonge-street
;D
And, another direct ancestor of mine:
Mumford, James, butcher, 271 Yonge st. ;D
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You may try a search for the Groundwater's (Toronto City Directories):
http://digitalcollections.torontopubliclibrary.ca/
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I do not have access to the 1871 Census of Canada record, but on A....y, there is a Hugh Groundwater, born c1856, living in Toronto West, Ontario.
This is only a list of heads and strays, but I don't see any Groundwaters listed in 1871:
http://db.library.queensu.ca/census/
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About 11 of my ancestors/families immigrated (c1830-1870) and settled in Toronto. I can only find two immigration records. I wish you better success in finding the Groundwaters.
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Once again, I do not have access to additional information, but
Hugh Groundwater, born c1858, Ireland, married to Mary J, 1901 England Census (Lancashire). Could this be the Hugh from the 1861 census? (You didn't specify his date of birth.)
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http://www.torontofamilyhistory.org/search.html
This is a pay for information site but it might prove useful.
In 1871 Hugh (15) b. Ireland is living with Watson Groundwater(40) b. Scotland, an accountant and his wife Sarah Groundwater(29) b. Ontario. They are in Toronto West St. John's Ward.
Alexander married Sarah Banks(b. 1836 Yorkshire) April 21, 1859, Watson married Sarah Bell(b.1841 Toronto) Nov 14, 1861
Was James their brother? He married Sarah Wilson nee Mitchell (b. 1843 Ireland) Feb 27 1878.
Debbie
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Debbie mentioned a pay for information site, which reminded me of
http://www.ingeneas.com/ingeneas/index.html
It appears that there are two Groundwaters arriving in 1870: Jas. and William. Jas. was born c1844; William was born c1851.
It also lists marriage records for Alexander Lyall, John, Sarah and Watson.
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This site has some earlier births, marriages and deaths for Ontario.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~onvsr/
(I haven't checked to see if there are any Groundwaters.)
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=3283671&pid=r&mode=ALL&n=0&query=groundwater
Some marriages
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Hello Lisa and Debbie - what can I say, except a VERY BIG THANK YOU. I will study all the sites you mention in my search for Jane's death/burial.
Alexander is a bookkeeper. How strange they were neighbours of your family Lisa.
Hugh is a mystery also. He was born 1856 Ireland, but is he the son of Alexander I wonder. No birth records for Ireland that early and not knowing where in Ireland he was born may never find out.
I believe that James was their brother Debbie. Thank you for finding him.
All just wonderful, I will enjoy looking at all the sites and checking for Groundwaters.
Thank you very much
Meg ;D
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I'm wondering if this could be Hugh on the 1901 England census in Barrow in Furness, Lancashire:
Hugh Groundwater, head, 43, mechanical engineer, born Ireland
Mary I Groundwater, wife, 36, born Workington, Cumberland
Atholl H Groundwater, son, 9 months, born Barrow in Furness, Lancashire
Jane Pears, mother-in-law, 69, born Workington, Cumberland
Francis Harvey, boarder, 48, carter, born Ireland
Mary A Brocklebank, boarder, 45, hawker, born Ireland
(Piece: 4011; Folio: 101; Page: 29)
There is a marriage for Hugh Groundwater that has a Mary Isabella Pears on the same page in the FreeBMD that was registered in second quarter of 1898 in Barrow in Furness, Cumbria, Lancashire (Volume: 8e, Page: 1600) and a death for Hugh Groundwater, 59, that was registered in the third quarter of 1913 in Barrow in Furness, Cumbria, Lancashire (Volume: 8e, Page: 922).
It looks like Athol died shortly after the census was taken as his death was registered as follows:
Athol Maud Groundwater, under 1 year, second quarter of 1901 in Barrow in Furness, Cumbria, Lancashire (Volume: 8e, Page: 565).
The 1911 England census has the family as follows:
27 Arthur Street, Barrow in Furness, Lancashire
Hugh Groundwater, head, 49, general labourer, born Banjor, Ireland
Mary I Groundwater, wife, 45, born Workington, Cumberland
Mabel Groundwater, daughter, 9, born Barrow in Furness, Lancashire
Annie Groundwater, daughter, 6, born Barrow in Furness, Lancashire
Jacquie
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Jacquie you are an absolute star! this is the family. 1911 - of course, should have thought of that. Banjor I think is going to Bangor County Down. This is wonderful as I now can perhaps track down a baptism. The question still is, what was the family doing there. I wonder if they sailed from Scotland for Canada and the ship docked in Ireland and the baby was born. Did Jane die at this time!
Still lots of questions, but so many have many have been answered by the kindness of Rootschatters.
Thank you very very much
best wishes Meg
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If she had Hugh in Ireland, and died in childbirth, her records could be there as well...
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=1207596135593#p=collectionDetails;t=searchable;c=1408347
There is a marriage for a William in 1853 Ireland, not in Down, but Clare or Limerick...No other info given...Could this have been Alexander's brother, William Lyell Groundwater?
Some of William lyell Groundwater's inventions
1857 http://books.google.ca/books?id=uEcEAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA256&lpg=PA256&dq=%22lyell+groundwater%22#
1869 http://books.google.ca/books?id=lX4hVcWiR-4C&pg=PA241&lpg=PA241&dq=william+lyell+groundwate#
another rootschatter on Alexander & Jane
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=399d927fcc37f8a07d049646a14a0803&topic=341718.0
and another:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,115054.0.html
and Elenore Lyell's family: http://patstedman.bravepages.com/groundwat/pafg01.htm#6C
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http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E01E5D8163CEE34BC4E53DFB667838C649FDE
Watson's arrival in New York 1857
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Hello J J, I cannot thank you enough for the information you have found on the Groundwaters. William does fit in and am now wondering if he left Scotland for Ireland before living in the south of England. All very interesting.
The inventions are great also.
To have the 1857 date for Watson is also helpful, to pin down when Alexander left Ireland. I would think he was travelling to be with his brother.
All wonderful. A Very Big Thank YOU.
Meg
;D
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You are most welcome...Have combed through available sites for Alexander's arrival...but nothing came up, sorry...
1887 - a Watson Groundwater and a Robert Lyell, directors, ATTAREE KHAT TEA COMPANY LTD. ( Tea from India & Ceylon)
http://www.archive.org/stream/teaproducingcomp00gowwrich/teaproducingcomp00gowwrich_djvu.txt
Hmmmm...http://www.drugs-plaza.com/herbals_khat.php
I guess Watson must have ended up in London as well...http://www2.richmond.gov.uk/burials/RegList.asp?P=258&S=&O=