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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Huntingdonshire => England => Huntingdonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: 47813 on Friday 14 August 09 02:12 BST (UK)
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Hello all,
All I know about my GGG-Grandmother is that she was called Ann Brighty and she married my GGG-Grandfather William Knight in 1852. She was born abt 1835 in Ramsey or so she says in the census'
Sorry i've no more to go on then that but if anyone can help I would be most grateful
Thankyou
Jonathan
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Do you have her marriage certificate which would give her father's name? She seems to have been married as Bright. How sure are you that she was Brighty?
Where have you looked for her prior to her marriage eg censuses? I can't find her
David
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Yep appears i've made a boob,
I have no idea where I got Brighty from - My notes are such a mess and its been so long
Anything under Bright or Brights???
Sorry
Jonathan
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The IGI has her as Brighty ;)
Ann BRIGHTY
William KNIGHT
15 June 1852, Holme, Huntingdon, England ( extracted)
FreeBMD has;
Ann BRIGHT
June 1852, Peterborough, 3b 379
Also on same page ( one a Brother?)
Ann BRIGHTS
George BRIGHTS
William KNIGHT
Nothing on the IGI for Ann Brights/Bright or George Brights
Trish
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Thankyou Trish,
The IGI, thats where I got Brighty from!
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I'd searched for her under Bright* in both 1851 and 1841, and just as Ann* born Ramsey 1835+/-2 and still nothing. Looks like one of the cases where purchasing the marriage cert is required.
The GRO image is definitely BRIGHT, but it may have been mistranscribed from the marriage cert.
David
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This is probably them in 1871;
Holme, Huntingdon
RG10/1514/64/2
William KNIGHT, 40, head, mar, ag lab
Ann, 36, wife, born Ramsey, Huntingdon
James Z, 16, son, ag lab
Henry A, 15, son, ag lab
Ann S, 13, daug, scholar
Sarah J, 8, daug, scholar
Charity, 4
Rosena,2
Grace, 10mths
All others born Holme
England and Wales Marriages 1538-1940;
Ann BRIGHTY, age 16, born abt 1836, Father Barnaby Brighty
William KNIGHT, Father James Knight
15 June 1852, Holme, Huntingdon
I am unable to find the Knights in 1861 when they should have at least 3 children with them. ::)
Trish
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This is one mixed up Family ::)
Look it is going to take awhile but I think she is the daughter of Barnabas and Kezia.
Unfortunately I think she was christened under STEVENS, maybe Kezias name? and then Kezia married Barnaby and on some Census they are Stevens and some Bright ??? ::) :P
Just check these out;
1841, search for Bambyby STEVENS, born 1795, Ramsey, Hunts. Or HO107/448/13/Ramsey
1851, search for Barnabas STEVENER, born 1795, Ramsey
HO107/1748/143/7
1861, search for Barnabas BRIGHTY, born 1795, Ramsey
RG9/971/24/5
See what you think.
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In 1861 they were living in Holme, Northants (Holme was actually in Hunts, but came under Northants for census purposes) indexed by Ancestry as Slough! I've submitted corrections
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Fantastic bedfordshire boy ;D
Then we should be looking for the Bright/ly/s, Father Barnaby/Barnabas, in Northants then in 1841/1851?
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See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,169740.0.html
No, Ramsey was in Hunts even for census purposes! But isn't it her aged 5 with Barnyby (transcribed as Bambyby) Stevens in 1841 as mentioned by you a few posts ago?
David
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I tend to think it is her in 1841 but cant confirm it by any other means.
Unfortunately I am about to have guests for lunch so have to sign out. People always disturb my research :o
Trish
EDIT;
I have just read your link. Wow what a Family. Thanks for that. i think I am safer toiling in the Kitchen.
Cheers,
Trish
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The marriage cert should confirm her father as Barnaby (or otherwise!).
My insomnia is passing so I'm going back to bed! Enjoy lunch
David
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Thankyou very much folks ;D
Must order that marriage certifcate then
Thanks
Jonathan
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Yes, that is the best idea Jonathon :)
This is Barnaby and Kezias marriage, from www.freereg.org.uk
Kezia HOLLIS
Barnabas STEVENS
11 October 1827, St Thomas A'Becket, Ramsey, Huntingdon
So what we know for you so far is that Ann is the daughter of Barnabas and Kezia . Also that Barnabas is illegitimate and his Father was a Blight/y.
Trish
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Sorry I was really thick on this one! Look for Ann Brighty and didn't have her, missed my circa 1836 Ann Stevens on my list.
Barnabas and Keziah are my direct ancestors so I have quite a lot on them but have to leave it for now as visitors arrived!
Selina
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Hi Selina,
We have all made mistakes like that ;)
I am just going to post 1861 Census for Jonathan and then will leave this thread for you two to get in touch.
Cheers,
Trish
God only knows how bedfordshire boy found this ;D
1861 Census
Holme, Northampshire
RG9/964/63/7
William SLOUGH(Knight), 31, mar, laborer, Hants, Holme
Ann, 25, wife, Hunts, Ramsey
James, 7, son, scholar, Hants, Holme
Ann, 3, daug, Hants, Holme
Mary, 10mths, daug, Hants, Holme
Mary appears to have died 1862 on Freebmd as she is not on 1871 Census.
What confuses me is that Henry turns up age 15 in 1871 ???
There is a christening record for him though,
Henry Alfred KNIGHT
2 March 1856, Holme, Huntingdonshire
Parents, William and Ann
Trish
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Now that I have got my brain in gear - thank you David and Trish for the bits you have added that probably relate to my family. I shall look into that line further now.
Barnabas and Keziah (nee Hollis) Stevens (alias Brighty etc) were my Gt. Gt. Grandparents.
They had a daughter Ann born circa 1836 and she is with them in the 1841 and 1851 Census at Ramsey. I had nothing more on her and I am descended from Ann's brother John Brighty Stevens.
So Jonathan it looks like we have a connection. If you refer back to the earlier postings on the other thread on the main Huntingdon board you will pick up quite a bit of stuff re my Barnabas Stevens.
The dual use of the Stevens/Brighty names carried on for many years.
However the one name that I would love to find is the maiden name of Alice the mother of illegitimate Barnabas, apparently fathered by Barnabas Brighty, and who married (unknown forename) Stevens.
Selina
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Cracking news! ;D
Faboulas work ladies and gentlemen, I can't praise all your help enough!
So what does that make us Selina? - Seems if my maths is right that your Gt. Gt. Grandparents are also my Gt. Gt. Gt. Gt Grandparents - :D
I'd like very much to put John Brighty Stevens' stem on my tree, if your kind enough to want to but my Ann Brighty Stevens' stem on yours
Thanks Again everyone
Jonathan
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There's only one Stevens marriage to an Alice in Hunts - William widower of Abbots Ripton to Alice Hammont at Huntingdon All Saints and St John in 1792. A bit earlier than the age range for Barnaby would imply, but might be worth investigating, in the absence of any other leads
Barnabas Brighty age 41 was buried at Ramsey on 1 March 1814, and an Alice Stevens age 40 on 17 Nov 1813. What was the date of Barnabas' will?
It's like drawing teeth trying to get onto, and move around, rootschat at 4.30 a.m UK time this morning. More server problems or bot invasions or whatever. Certainly not extra busy so clear off for an hour and write us a postcard as one of the messages stated; not when there are fewer than 200 users logged in.
David
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Hi David,
Thank you for the marriage details, as you say everything is worth bearing in mind. I will also look to see if I followed back on the Alice that died. There are three baptisms at Ramsey around the time mentioning a John and Alice Stevens and also just Alice. I did find a solidier named John Stevens but no marriage so the name John has probably no connection at all!
As you say Barnabas Brighty was buried on 1 March 1814 aged 41 years. His Will was dated 7 July 1812 and Proved 21 July 1814. So indication is that Alice was married before July 1812.
I have the baptism of this Barnabas Brighty in 1773 and his marriage to a Mary Smith (Smyth) in 1797, there is a lot about his land on National Archives.
I have looked for a Bastardy Order at Huntingdon R.O. but he obviously made his own provision for Alice's child, which says something in his favour!
My 2 x Gt. Grdfather, Barnabas was buried at Ramsey on 4 October 1866 under the name of BRIGHTY age 71 (I have cert). From ages given on Census returns, he could have been born anywhere between 1794 and 1797.
At least when I 'did' this family it explained why my mother once remarked "your father's family didn't know who they were"!
Thanks again.
Selina
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Hi Jonathan,
At a quick calculation we are possibly 3rd cousins 3 times removed, but need to do that properly!
It would be better to exchange information directly so would you like to exchange email addresses via a pm?
Selina
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This is a gripping saga! :)
It is coming together nicely, well done everyone involved in the research.
Thankyou Selina, PM on its way
Jonathan
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Hello Jonathan and Selina
I have just started researching my cousins family for our family tree and his Gt. Gt. Gt. Gt Grandparents are Barnabas and Keziah through the Palmer line
Kind Regards
Mike
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Hello, Mike
Its been some months since I last did any research on this side of my tree.
I have Mary Ann Brighty Stevens married to Thomas Palmer in 1852
They have Emma, Charles, Susannah and Robert
That is all I have
Which of the children is your cousin decended from?
Thanks
Jonathan
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Hello Mike,
As you will see from earlier replies, Barnabas and Kezia were my Great Great Grandparents, via their son John born 1840 who married Mary Ann Smith in 1859.
I assume you are interested in Mary Ann Brighty Stevens, daughter of Barnabas and Kezia, who married Thomas Palmer?
Regards,
Selina
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Hello Selina and Jonathan
I have a child of Mary Ann and Thomas called Hannah Maria Palmer who had we believe an illegitimate son Robert born 8 Oct 1873 before she married Matthew Moore and had 3 children Catherine Charles and John. It looks like on the census that Robert was brought up by his Grand Mother Keziah.
Robert later started using the middle name Proud, another assumption is that was his fathers name.
Robert married Elizabeth Kilby and had five sons one of which George Cyril Palmer married Doris Eva Walker and had 4 sons and a daughter, one of the sons Maurice Christopher Palmer married my mothers sister Rita Howes which resulted in a family of 2 boys and three girls all living.
I have recently been contacted by Debbie Pike who's father Eric was one of George Cyril's boys
Kind Regards
Mike
www.the-twinns.co.uk (http://www.the-twinns.co.uk)
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Everyone seems so confused?????????????
Marriage at Holme, 15.6.1852,WILLIAM KNIGHT, SON, JAMES=ANN
BRIGHTY,16,DAU,BARNABY BRIGHTY.
Margaret.
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The marriage, of which Trish gave details in post #6, wasn't what was causing the confusion. It was the Stevens or Brighty name, caused by the odd illegitimate birth! But it was all resolved.
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Hi David,
Yes the use of both surnames, individually or together etc., combined with illegitimacy and it being a large family makes it seem confusing at first sight but once you get going it sorts out pretty well!
Hi Mike,
Its interesting about Robert (Proud) Palmer. I saw that no father was given when he married.
Barnabas Brighty, son of Barnabas and Kezia married into the Proud family (Sarah but Sally at marriage) in 1863 so there was a connection there.
I have a lot of information on the Brighty/Stevens family so let me know if you have any specific queries.
Selina
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Hi again Mike,
I see from my file that I have a fourth child of Hannah and Matthew Moore, a daughter who died young and appears to have been baptised when it looked like she might be dying.
Baptism at Ramsey 11 August 1888, Susan Ann Moore, daughter of Matthew and Hannah Maria, lab. Private. Born 28 November 1887.
Buried at Ramsey 17 August 1888, Susan Ann Moore, aged 8 mths.
Selina
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Just realised that there was also Mary Louisa Moore born 1893.
So five in all.
Selina
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Thanks for that Selina just returned from a barbecue at our freinds will contact later
Kind Regards
Mike
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Hello, Mr Twinn
I am just beginning to add the new names onto my tree.
Thankyou for all the information.
I did not have Hannah Maria, but I do have a Robert Palmer born in the Dec quarter of 1873 who in 1881 is living with Keziah, she is listed as his Grandmother. I assume we are talking about the same man.
Only you say he is the illgetimate son of Hannah Maria were as I have him as her younger brother.
Both are possible but I think you have alot more information then I.
I just remember collecting census' that Keziah was on, in her life and seeing that in 1881 she had Susannah and Robert Palmer, her grand children with her. I knew she had a daughter who married a Palmer so I added them as more of their children.
I take it the reason you think he is illgetimate is because having his exact date of birth, you have his birth certifcate that doesn't say his parents were Thomas and Mary Ann Palmer?
Thanks again
Jonathan
PS. - I am decended from Ann Brighty Stevens a younger sister of Mary Ann. If you would like any information on that side of the family, please let me know.
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A theory regarding Robert Palmer....
On some census entries he is listed as Robert Proud Palmer.
In the 1871 census (2 years before he was born) Hannah Maria Palmer and her family were living at 32 Great Whyte, Ramsey.
A few doors down, at number 40, lived an unmarried man who was apprentice to the head of the house, a bookmaker and Methodist preacher.
His name? Isaac Proud.
Do you think there's any chance that Isaac might be Robert's father, and Robert was given his surname as a middle name?
Hannah Maria Palmer is my great-great grandmother, so I may be able to help with this part of the family if you need anything else.