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Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Isle of Man Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Ewan on Friday 14 August 09 13:00 BST (UK)
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As a cross check, can anyone please help to see if they can find the following individual on any censuses from the Isle of Man, 1841 - 1891 only?
William Henry Cox born England according to a death certificate he was born 1833 there is an entry for the same name on the 1901 census where the birth year was 1841.
Any help appreciated.
Ewan
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I can''t see him in any Isle of Man census but I see he was an electro plater on the 1901 census - what about this man then?
1881 RG11/2201 Folio 38 Page 17
28 Whimple Street, Plymouth St Andrew
William Henry Cox 43 Electro Metallugist ("plated ware" written above) Birmingham
Helen F? 33 Hastings Sussex
Maud N 3 Plymouth
Lionel H 1 Plymouth
Marriage - William Henry Cox Sept 1877 Bristol 6a 52
Brides - Helen Fanny Smith or Catherine Elizabeth Bishop
1891 RG12/813 Folio 28 Page 14
55 Meeting House Lane, The Palace, Brighton, Sussex
William Hy J Cox 50 Silver Plater & Gilder ....... Master Birmingham
Fanny 42 Sussex Hastings
Maude N H 13 Devonshire Plymouth
Although looks like Helen is still alive in 1901 -
RG13/194 Folio 54 Page 23
188 Liverpool Road, Islington, London
Helen Cox 49 widow Confectioner shop Sussex Hastings
Gordon son 17 Mechanical Engineer Devon Plymouth (Birth? Gordon Hart Cox March 1884 Plymouth 5b 286)
(In 1891, Gordon H Cox is a boarder, age 7, born London, living with Eli and Caroline Marchant, their children William (17) and Henry (13) and daughter Alice Edwards (17)
St Mary in the Castle, Hastings, Sussex RG12/761 Folio 138 Page 27)
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In 1861 I think he is lodging at 9 Ridinghouse? Street, All Souls St Marylebone, London -
William Cox 27 lodger Electroplate worker silver plate (written over several lines for him + 3 other lodgers from Birmingham)
RG9/68 Folio 30 Page 56
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Thank you for your replies, I do have all that information, the 'burning question' is .............. is it the same man on all those censuses as the one in 1901 on the IOM?
I have no other information regarding him only what you have found.
Ewan
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So you don't have his marriage certificate to Alice? or the one to Helen Fanny Smith? to compare fathers/occupations etc? Any clues on 1911 census? :-\
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I have his marriage to Helen F Smith from 1877, still trying to find his 'other' marriage if there is one to Alice. I believe I have his death certificate with a death before 1911 ::) . I am not 100 per cent certain that he married this Alice, on the 1901 census she was 40 and he was 60. If I found a marriage for him it would perhaps give me some more clues to the man.
So ........ a marriage needs to be found, on the death certificate his 'widow' Alice Cox was the informant, but I am still not convinced they were married.
Ewan
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Whats Alice's place of birth on 1911 census, and age? Might make it easier to search for a marriage (as there are quite a few possible marriages of William Cox's to an Alice) if she can be found in 1891 census using her "maiden" name, can't think how else to confirm its the same man, although the age and occupations are extremely similar.... :-\
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Unfortunately, on the IOM census for 1901 there is just England entered for the birthplace, could of really done with a county :(. Alice was aged 40, William aged 60, I suspect that maybe Alice was married before, whether in England or IOM, it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack though. I know William was on the IOM in 1894 as he is in Brown's Directory for that year, and I understand they take 2 years to compile until printed, so he could of been there as early as 1892. As mentioned you haven't been able to find him on any other censuses on the IOM, possibly no one else has either, so I am almost certain it is my William Henry Cox on the 1901 census.
Just noticed you asked about Alice's place of birth and age on the 1911 census, haven't been able to find her as yet, so maybe someone would be kind enough to help with that using the 'special' techniques.
Thank you for your input.
Ewan
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Just had a quick look at the 1911 census and there is only one Alice Cox listed on Isle of Man census - Alice Emily Cox age 44. I can't find her there on the 1901 census, only your Alice Cox, so could be the same one. Maybe she upped her age a bit in 1901 so there wasn't such a gap between her and William? I can't look at the actual page or transcription on the 1911 census as I haven't any credits left :-\ Maybe someone else will have more luck finding her!
Regards
Cat :)
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Thank you Cat for having a look at the 1911 census for me. I did have another look, after putting in Alice ? born in England 1860 + or - 7 years, resident on the IOM, it came up with 3 names -
Alice Cain b 1862
Alice Corkill b 1867
Alice Ann Hogg b 1865
I am no expert at this but because I entered England as a birthplace these are the names that it came up with. When I put in Alice Emily Cox without a birthplace it came up with the one you found, so perhaps there is someone who would know if the result of this one would mean that Alice Emily Cox was born on the IOM?
On the index for the 1901 census I found an Alice Cain with her husband George
An Alice J Corkill with her husband Edward
An Alice Ann Hogg with her husband George
There was an abundance of Alice Emily/Emily Alice Coxes on the 1901, but not living on the IOM. So either this was the Alice you found on the 1911 who was living with William Henry Cox on the 1901 or one of the many Alice Emily/Emily Alice Coxes moved to the IOM for the 1911 census.
Many thanks
Ewan
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Hi Ewan,
Had a little look at 1911 census and as far as I can work out (without using credits) Alice Emily Cox is living alone as head of household.
I can't work out where she was born though...I have tried various options of Plymouth, Brighton, etc etc (and some random places like Liverpool and Manchester) and all the main towns of Isle of Man - but nothing matches yet. Maybe she didn't fill in that bit.
Milly ;D
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Hello Milly
I have been experimenting using the 'without credits' method on the 1911 census. There doesn't appear to be many families with the Cox surname on this particular census. In fact, there was only 6 females and no males, it looks like 4 of them lived in the same household (ie mum and 3 daughters). An Alice Emily as mentioned on her own and a Louise Cox on her own. I can't believe that, must be doing some wrong here. I did have a go like yourself at trying to find Alice Emily's birthplace by putting in random places, when I put it '' it did come up with her name. So I am more confused than ever. Time for a lie down I think ???
Ewan
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Yes - I only found the 6 that you found - and 4 of them in same household...so you are doing it right.
Not sure how much you can find out without actually using some credits..
Did you try to find a marriage certificate for them? Can't see anything obvious on England BMD - maybe they married in Isle of Man -or maybe not at all and that is why they moved there :o :o
Milly ;D
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Hi Ewan,
its me Liz from our manx board,
are we sure william and alice are the ones your searching as in a message up a bove on here it is saying helen age 49 widow,
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Hello Milly
I should think that is all you can find out without credits, with a bit of 'jiggory pokey!' you may find who else lived in the same household.
I have looked on freebmd but without knowing the whereabouts of Alice ? it is difficult to find a marriage if any. River (aka Liz) has kindly searched on the IOM for me to see if there is a marriage but it doesn't look like there is one.
Ewan
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OK Ewan,
i search all records sorry nothing on marridge, no rates either, nothing to go back after 1894, now i did find something interesting, i bought some credits for my family past [ i needed one my self for my cain family ] and i used 10 credits to look at alice cox 1911 census and look what i got,
Alice emily cox age 44 widow-occupation- electro plater and gilder and close plater by hand,where -born Ryde isle of white, i dont think they married because 1911 census tells you how mant years married and this blank her address was Ballagary crosby marown, i know this area well as i walk past through old railway lines, i wonder if he was on the isle of white befor here on isle of man,,
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That sounds very promising.
The question regarding marriage would not have been relevant if she was a widow as they were asked to state the ‘years the present marriage has lasted’. As there was no present marriage she would not have filled that in - so I don't think it can be taken that they were not married.
Milly ;D
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Milly,
interesting isnt it the occupation she had, i wonder if william was training her, i also wonder if they married in isle of white, i looked at a site for there but no maridge there was one for william cox and a margaret ?
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Or perhaps they met when they were working together somewhere else - and then moved to Isle of Man together.
Or perhaps as you say - he had been training her - and she took over his business when he died..
But it does sound like the right Alice (Emily)
Milly ;D
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Liz I can't thank you enough for using your credits to help me, you are so kind. Her occupation of electro plater and gilder really must mean that this was the Alice who was on the 1901 census with William Henry Cox and as you say I wonder if he trained her up in his occupation. Also, the address where Alice Emily lived was spot on with the address where William Henry Cox died in 1910. I now have the birthplace of Alice, and I have been trying to find a birth for her, but with no luck, I also saw that marriage you talked about of a WHC and a Margaret Spanner (1896 Isle of Wight) and wondered if she had called herself a completely different name what we know her as - Alice. A William Henry Cox and a Margaret Helen Cox (b Isle of Wight) were found on the 1911 index living in Wandsworth London, so that does rule out that couple. Alice now known as Alice Emily was really intent on calling herself the wife of William Henry Cox wasn't she? so perhaps one day a marriage for them may surface.
Milly, perhaps they did meet when they were working together elsewhere, I know in a Kelly's Directory from 1891, Sussex WHC entry was as 'Cox and Co Electro Plater and Gilder, she may have been the Co!
Ewan
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Ewan i think few things we need to try and find out,
1] marriage of whc and alice emily
2] death of alice emily ]
There was no will for whc which a family historian woman told me is odd how he never left one because he would not have wanted her to be with out,
A will for alice emily
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