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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Sutherland => Topic started by: panda40 on Sunday 23 August 09 18:53 BST (UK)
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I have a birth certificate that I downloaded of Scotlands people which is a possible birth of Hubbies grandmother. The parents are listed as William McLeod and Eliza Norman (I think its Norman). They are recorded as getting married on 10/2/1900 in Stoor. I am trying to locate the couple in the 1901 census but with no luck so far.
Can anyone help me to locate the parish of Stoor so that I can narrow down the search in the census.
Many thanks in advance.
Regards Panda
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Is any County given on the certificate?
Hibee
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Hi
Can you give us all the details from the marriage record so we can possibly have a look on the census for you?
Sorry Ignore that I misread your post ::) What was William's occupation?
Evie
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Could the parish be Stair (614) in Ayrshire?
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Hi Everyone
Thanks for looking. I have attached the entry for you to look at. I can't quite make out the county so I will attach that in the next post. Any clues greatfully received. Hubby is no good with dates, but I'm off to see mun in law at the weekend and will pick her brains.
Regards Panda
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Here is the image of the county, its quite hard to make out any ideas?? ???
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What's the reference number of the index entry - the first three numbers? All Scottish parishes and registration districts have a unique reference number - this will tell you where it is by reference to the list found here:
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/list-of-parishes-registration-districts.html
Nell
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I think this may be Stoer in the parish of Assynt in the County of Sutherland
Margow
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The marriage is indexed under William Agnus [as indexed!] McLeod and Lizzie Notman, Stoer district, county of Sutherland.
Bit more about Stoer here: http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/lochinver/stoer/index.html
hume :)
Sorry Margow, didn't see your post. :)
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Google Achnacarnin and you'll see where it is.
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A big thank you to everyone. I agree it is the county of Sutherland. I still have had no luck in locating William and Eliza/Lizzie on the 1901 census. As they married in 1900 they should be on there together.
Anyone got better eye sight ??? ;D
Wilhelmina their daughter went on to have an illegitimate son called James in 1926 and he is my next target. I hope to have more info on him after speaking to the family. I will keep you all posted.
Regards Panda
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Gravestone in Stoer Cemetery
In loving memory of William A MacLeod, Achnacarnin died 18.10.34 aged 79 and his son Christopher died 12.1.52 aged 41. Also his wife Elizabeth died 29.7.56 aged 88.
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Thanks everyone for your help so far. I spent an interesting weekend talking to my mother in law. Wilhelmina's illegitimate son was given the name McIntosh- McLeod (not sure which spelling of Mc/Mackintosh yet). The family rejected her and when her son was 5 she moved to Liverpool and married her Husband. When her son got married he had to put his father's name down. This is the first time he found out he was not the son of her husband. I'm ordering the marriage cert and death cert tonight to see what else I can find out. At the moment there are quite a few possible birth certs on Scotlands people and at £10 a time its to much to try and eliminate by name alone.
Regards panda
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This looks to be his birth
1927 MACLEOD JAMES MCINTOSH Male at KIRKTON ASSYNT (SUTHERLAND) /SUTHERLAND 044/01 0003
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There is a single matching entry on the 1901 census when searching for William MacLeod, wife Elizabeth, with county as Sutherland, as follows:
William A MacLeod aged 41
born abt 1860 in Assynt, Sutherland
occupation Crofter
residing at Stoer To Culkein Stoer (probably mistranscribed!!)
Elizabeth MacLeod aged 31
born abt 1870 in Brora, Sutherland
Could this be your folks?
Lass x
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Thanks everyone for your help. I have now sent off for his birth certificate. I will let you know if all the pieces fit together.
Regards panda
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I have returned to this family now the 1911 census for Scotland is a available and found the family first go. William's mother is with them as well. I spent the rest of my credits trying to locate some more information and found what I believe to be William's death. The only problem is the date differs from the information given by ghostwhisperer regarding the headstone in Stoer cemetery. The information on the death certificate is that William died December 13th 1934 at 5.55 pm. The wife name is correct as well as the parents names. The death was witnessed by his Son Christopher, which ties in with all the other information we have. Only problem is the date on the grave stone was given as 18.10.1934. Could this be a simple mistake of time wearing away the date?
If possible could ghostwisperer let me know the source of their information? Many thanks.
On William's death cert his fathers name is given as William McLeod. He does not appear with the family on the 1871 census where Christina is recorded as Christy. Any chance any one could look for the couple together on an earlier census as I am trying to find when this William died or a birth date for him.
Many thanks in advance
panda
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Gravestone is in quite good condition, but I have seen many mistakes made on stones.
(http://i392.photobucket.com/albums/pp8/Ghostwhisperer_01/87-1.jpg)
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Wow thanks for the picture ghostwhisperer, I know what you mean I have found a number of headstones that don't match with the information contained on the indexes. As he appears to be the only one that fits the name and dates we will have to go with the facts we have.
Now all I need to do is work on the next generation back ??? ???. My husbands cousin has asked for the information and I am trying to put as much together for her.
Thanks for your help
Regards panda
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There is this entry for 1861
Do the names match your info?
Donald Mclead 33
Christy Mclead 33 born: Craellach, Sutherlandsh
John Mclead 10
Hugh Mclead 9
Ann Mclead 7
William Mclead 5 born: Caploch, Sutherland Occupation: Shepherd Son
Jessy Mclead 3
Robertalenz Mclead 1
Marcy Campbell 23
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Had another look at all the info I have on the family
William Angus McLeod
died in 1934 father William mother Christina McLeod
On the 1911 census he is shown with family and mother Christina
on 1901 census he is shown with his wife
1891 he is shown as a nephew living with his mother who is a widower at his uncles house
1881 have not located family yet
1871 Christina is shown as Christy head of house she has two of her brothers staying with her as well as her two children William Angus and daughter Jane.
Interestingly enough Christina's maiden name is given as McLeod on her son's death certificate which is confirmed by the surname of her brothers in the 1871 census.
Not located any individuals in the earlier census either.
So in answer to sancti question I'm afraid its not my family as the parents need to be William and Christina.
Thank you for the links to the Scottish grave sites ghostwhisperer I am going to use the information to try and narrow down some of the possibilities.
Off to buy some more credits on scotlandspeople to see what I can find, wish me luck.
Regards panda
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Who was the informant on the 1934 death?
Is this the only document that mentions his fathers name as William?
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His son Christopher, who is also on the headstone picture that ghostwhisperer provided. When I was looking on scotlandspeople last night the only marriage that was a possibility was between a William McLeod and a Christina Kerr. On the Scottish census returns was a sister in law recorded as a sister sometimes? I'm not as familiar with the Scottish ones as I am with the English ones.
I was unable to find a birth record for Williams sister Jane either.
I did find William's birth which gave his parents names as correct and the fact that this was Christina's second child.
Regards panda
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Hi every one
Hope you can help me make out a couple of place names that appear on the birth certificate for William McLeod.
The first is the birth place of his father.
The second is the birth place of his mother which I think is Elphric ???
Lastly can anyone make out what it says in the last box ??? ???
I think it is Kat McLeod but the rest is all a blurr as they say. The box is for the signature of the parent or other informant. Residence of where the birth took place.
Many thanks in advance
panda
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William McLeod 33 years Weaver Ireland
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Kate McLeod Her mark Aunt
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Looks like
Duncan Wilson witness
Duncan McRae witness
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Well I'm totally confused is McLeod an Irish name ??? ???
After all these years of telling my children they have Scottish ancestors I may have to tell them they have Irish blood as well ;D ;D
Regards panda
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His family may have originated in Scotland prior to the Plantation of Ulster
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1851 census has this record
Mary Mcleod 54
Jane Mcleod 21
William Mcleod 17
Jane Mcleod 14
William Mcleod 29 nephew born Ireland occ Weaver
Address: Achnecharnin, Assynt
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This might be Christy's birthplace
http://www.discoversutherland.co.uk/elphin.php
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Thanks Sancti for the information I think I have found him in the 1841 census as well. Parish Assynt ED1, page 4, line 1180.
He is listed as age 20 and his occupation is M H L W what ever that is ???
He is listed with some other people with the same name. I will be investing in good old Scotland's again this weekend to see the information in full. Now if only Christy/Christina McLeod would be as easy to find. Back to the search boxes ;D ;D
Regards panda
PS now I know why I gave both my children Irish first names :P
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HLW is Hand Loom Weaver
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Couldnt see William on the 61 census so checked death certs.
30-4-1855 2h30pm Achnacarnin
William McLeod, Weaver, Male 33yrs, Born Ireland. 32 years in Assynt, Sutherland
Parents - Murdo McLeod Corporal 78th Regt of Foot Deceased & Anne McLeod MS Sutherland deceased
Married to Christy McLeod, Issue: Jane 1 1/2 yrs
Cause of death - drowned
Informant - Angus McLeod (x) uncle
Witness - Duncan Wilson & Duncan McRae
[the entry above this one is for death of said Angus MacLeod's sister Mary, who also drowned same day same time - wonder what happened?!]
Goodness, decided to check the "next page" on scotland's ppl and there are entries also for Angus Nicolson, John Nicolson & Alex McRae - cause of death for all is "Drowned"...
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And 1861 census, think this is them
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The head of the household is Cirsty McLeod, Widow - Emily is mistranscription. So presumably Angus McLeod = William Angus McLeod?
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Sorry, me again!
Looks as though Chirsty was 4 months pregnant when her husband drowned, poor woman
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Hi everyone
Just got back from a weekend away and found all your wonderfull information. I will put the washing machine on and then hopefully sit down and put all the information you have supplied on the computer. I have sent off for a couple of certificates so hope to get some information to help confirm some of the details.
Regards panda
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I would be very interested in finding out about the drownings that took place, sadly my knowledge of what information is available for Scotland on the internet is lacking. Do you know of any website addresses where they have old newspaper stories for that time period available? If not could you let me know if the newspapers are archived and where ?
Regards panda
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i would suggest sending a letter to the Northern Times to ask their readers for information. that is the paper that focuses on sutherland. they are usually very interested in publishing these type of enquiries/stories.
www.northern-times.co.uk
other than that you could enquire with the press & journal to see if they have any info from 1855. not sure when it first came into print.
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Default.aspx?UserKey=
the p+j does tend to focus more on aberdeenshire, but its meant to cover the north too.
hope that helps.
(oh you could also seek advice from the Highland Archive Centre in Inverness)
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Thanks anabanana the Northan times looks like the best route to go. I will drop them an email and see if they are able to shed some light on the drowning incident.
Regards panda
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Hi Folks
I'm getting even more confused than I was to start with, who said this hobby was fun??? >:(
I have received Whihemina marriage certificate today, this is dated 1931 and she married in England after leaving Scotland with her illegitimate son. On the marriage certificate she gives her fathers name as Alexander McLeod (deceased) labourer.
So have I been trying to locate the wrong family or is she telling little white lies ???
I spoke to her grandaughter yesterday and she confirmed that her birth date is 3rd July, this is confirmed by the information found on her death index reference. I have looked on Scotlands people for a Wilhelmina McLeod born on the 3rd July to a father called Alexander but have found no match HELP I'm going slowly mad. Just as I think I have made some head way I lose it all again. Or did she not know her actual birth day. I have found one for 2nd July but that is in a different part of Scotland.
Regards a very confused panda
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hello again panda, just wondered do you have record of willhelmina in 1901 or 1911 census. did a quick search myself on 1901 and another stoer connection popped up....
Alexander Macleod 44
Margaret Macleod 44
Donald Macleod 18
Ann Macleod 12
Murdo Macleod 10
Alexander Macleod 7
John Macleod 4
Williamina Macleod 8 MO
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Hi anabana
That's the confusing thing I found that entry myself includingthe birth entry on scotlands people. But according to Wilhelmina death entry her birth date is 3/7/1906.
death April 1992 Preston and Ribble, Lancs 40, 1897.
If she told everyone the correct information then this is not her on the 1901 census.
On her marriage certificate her age matches that she was born 1905/6.
Thanks for your continued support in trying to solve this mystry
Regards
Panda
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morning panda :)
possible births in 1906 for wilhelmina are:-
1) 1906 strathoykel
2) 1906 uig (rossshire)
3) 1906 bower
I checked out number (1) for nosiness as thats the part of the coiuntry i myself hail from! and mother is maggie macleod, no mention of father as child was illegitimate. her birth date was 2nd July however! and that is just on the other side of the assynt boundary. Would be intersting to follow her up in 1911 census.
the one in bower was born to parents named Donald and Barbara
on the other side of the spectrum, if she was illegitimate and her mothers name wasn't macleod (but her fathers was) then that opens up another realm of possibilities, as she may have been recorded originally under her mothers name.
ohh its all fun and games!!
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I've decided to trace my steps back generation by generation to see if I can make the pieces fit.
I have uploaded a scan of the birth cert of Wilhelmina's son. I would like conformation of the district given at the top of the cert as well as the address shown for place of birth. Also if possible the address given for Wilhelmina. Still trying to get my head around the geography of the area. This is 1927.
Wilhelmina must have been alive in the 1911 census which is a known fact. I did a search for McLeod female born 1900-1910 with the name beginning Wil to allow for the variant spelling. There were 10 possible individuals returned. Two of these were from the parish of Stoer .
I'm seeing her grandaughter today who has her death cert. I will see what information this has and whether she can shed any more light on the puzzle.
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Hi Panda, how did you get on yesterday. If te death cert has the mother;s name on it that would really help :)
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Hot off the press this morning I had the cert to scan in for my records. No parents names given as its an English cert. Date of birth given 3/7/.1906 Laig Sutherlandshire. This information was given by her son. So he only had the information that his mother had given him.
Did you manage to translate any of the place names I listed in the image I posted ? I'm trying to put together where she was living at key points in time so that I can help identify her on the census and birth records.
Regards panda
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hello panda, made up a wee image of the key places involved for you. i know they may seem very far apart, but there was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing between these areas back in the day.
(http://)
the use of "Lairg, Sutherland" for her birth area can be quite misleading. Lairg is the main postal town for much of north sutherland, while it also refers to the wee village itself (see dot on map), it doesnt necessarily mean she had a connection with the village, but rather the postal area.
had a look for the strathoykel born Williamina in 1911 census and she is a boarder, aged 4, in strathoykel, with a family of mackenzies. perhaps something happened to her mother maggie?! and maybe the lack of connection with her mother led to confusion abt her actual birth date.....
conjecture v reality! how to find out for certain....... :-\
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Thanks anabana for the map. Its great when you have the local knowledge of an area. Well according to her grandaughter our Wilhelmina was quite a girl. Apparently the story goes that she had an illegitimate child at the age of 16 and as far as she can remember she was sent to the Isle of Skye at the time.
She then had another illegitimate child in 1927 (this is the line I am tracing) before moving to England to marry in 1931.
She gave birth to 6 other children including a set of twins. Her grandaughter remembers Wilhelmina saying that her aunt was one of a twin or had twins. Sadly all of her children are no longer with us so there is little information to go on but I will keep on digging. The illegitimate Wilhelmina is looking a strong possibility at the moment.
Regards panda