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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northamptonshire => Topic started by: miked47 on Friday 04 September 09 22:09 BST (UK)
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Hi There,
Can anyone please help a newbie to this forum. I'm trying to find why my wife's Grandfather, Joseph Walter Wright, born 1884 in Green's Norton, ended up in Naas, Co. Kildare after completing his 7 years with the 2nd Battalion, Northants Regiment, in 1906. From what I've found so far, the Battalion was stationed in Bordon, Hants from 1902 after returning from South Africa and then in Colchester, Essex from 1904.
Joseph was married in Naas in 1908 and the marriage register records his Rank or Profession as "Ex Soldier". At some time thereafter, Joseph joined the Army Veterinary Corps. He rose to the rank of Staff Sergeant by the time he left the Army sometime around 1920-22. Whilst with the AVC he was stationed variously in Aldershot, Co. Dublin and Co. Kildare.
Many Thanks
Mike
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Welcome Mike to Rootschat. :)
1891 Census Greens Norton Rg12/1188 Dist: 11
Pg 11 Folio 114 Sch 72
William Wright Head M 49 Agriculutral Labourer Woodford
Frances Wife M 43 Northampton
Thomas Son S 16 Agriculutral Labourer Greens Norton
Albert Son S 14 Agriculutral Labourer Greens Norton
Elsie Daur S 9 Scholar Greens Norton
Joseph Son S 7 Scholar Greens Norton
Sandy
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1881 Census Greens Norton Rg11/1536 Dist: 10, Pg 16, Folio 20
Sch 75 Down Street
William Wright Head Mar 39 Millers Waggoner Woodford
Frances Wife Mar 33 Wag. Wife Northampton
William J Son 9 Scholar Towcester Parlasyed from B.
George T Son 6 Scholar Greens Norton
Albert Son 4 Scholar Greens Norton
Sandy
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Hi Sandy,
Yup. That's the man. Thanks for responding so quickly.
He really is proving a "brick wall". Other than UK and Ireland Census Returns and Parish Registers, most of the information I have about him comes from family "memories". The family in Ireland still have a medal that gives Northants Army Number, 5218. The Northampton Museum provided me with the fact that he left in 1906 still a private, time expired with the Queen's SA medal, 1901 and the King's SA medal 1902 with clasps for Cape colony, Orange Free State and Transvaal.
I applied to the Army Records Branch for his AVC military record but they were unable to find him.
Still hopefully digging away though.
Mike
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Hi again Mike.
You may have more luck with his Regimental History on the
Armed Forces Board.
As you have said you know quite lot already.
I will link across for you.
Sandy
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I had a Regt Dinner this weekend and have been away I'm afraid, mum!! ;D
This was the 58th (2nd bn Northamptonshire Regt).
They left Aldershot on the 21st/22nd Oct 1899, sailing half a bn each, in the SS Nubia and Harlech Castle..
They arrived in Cape Town between the 13th and 14th Nov. The bn was 28 officers, with 982 other ranks, 550 being reservists. They also had x3 horses, and one wheeled machine gun.
Interestingly it was this bn that introduced the practise of marching in columns of 4, closed up and on the left side of the road.
On 16th Jan 1911, they were posted to Malta.
I have a full account of the 58th in South Africa if you would like a copy...
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Funnily enough I also have a 1920s history of the RAVC!!
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Scrimnet,
I would relish an account of the 58th's exploits in SA. I have only seen a few bits and pieces so far which amount to not more than a patchy overview. Any light you could shed on where the Battalion was between the end of the 2nd Boer War and 1906, when Joseph's time with the Regiment expired, might help as well. We really haven't a clue as to how he ended up in Ireland, unless it was with his regiment. We know why he stayed, he married a local girl, Brigid Currin, in 1908.
Is the 1920s RAVC history in electronic text ? If so, I'd dearly love to see that as well.
Thanks.
Sandy,
Thanks for the cross-posting.
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No probs...Send me a PM with your eamil addy and I will copy the Regt int I have.
Now then, as for brigid....Either she was in service somewhere and he followed her home, or he went over the water to find work, and met her....Don't forget that the whole of Ireland was just as much part of the UK then as Wales is now.
He had only served his first part of service with the Regt and would have to serve the remainder of his time in the reserves...Up to the 12yr point.
The Regt did not serve in Ireland (a "home" posting) during this time...Have you followed Brgid's movements on the census at all, in case she came over the water, but this way??
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Good thinking about Brigid there. I'll start digging in the 1901 England Census. The 1901 Ireland isn't yet on-line so that will take a bit longer.
I'll have to try another way to find Joseph's later service with the AVC. I can't find him in the WW1 Medal Rolls at the PRO, but this may be because it is believed by the family that injuries from his time in South Africa meant he was unfit for service in France or Belgium. He is believed to have spent his time largely in Ireland, with short spells in England. Confusingly, one of his daughters told me that he used to tell her stories of life in the trenches when she was very little.
I recently purchased a copy of the SA War Casualty Roll but , frustratingly, cannot find his name among the wounded.
I'll send you a PM shortly.
Once again, thanks.
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Also if he served 1922 and later his records will still be with the MOD.... ;)
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So they should. I applied to the Army Records Branch but they were unable to find any trace of him. I don't have a service number so I suppose that doesn't help. :(
I had a similar lack of luck with my father's WW2 service record. It stops after his first sinking, on HMS Grimsby in 1941. Since he didn't talk about his experiences, we only have a few clues as to what he was up to for the rest of the war.
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I'll start copying the int tonight for you...
I wonder what the AMS museum may hold on WW1 AVC / post WW1 RAVC??
Might be worth having a chat with the curator and doyen of WDYTYA, Pete Starling
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Thanks for that. I'll give them a try. I've got a couple of photos of Joseph from his time in the AVC. I suppose it's possible that they might be able to tell me a bit about them, even if they don't have any records relating directly to him.
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Pop them up on here mate...WE might be able to tell you something!!!! ;D ;D
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Apologies. I should have thought of that myself :-[
The first photo, of Joseph, his second wife Bridget and their first two children is believed to have been taken in Aldershot around 1914-15.
In the second photo, Joseph is 3rd from the right in the back row. The quality is a bit poor because it is a photo of an ink-jet print of a scanned photo. I've yet to see the original. No-one in the family appears to know anything about where or when it was taken, nor about the "Bing Boys" reference.
I do have another picture, I'll post that separately.
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This is the third picture, believed by the family to also be of Joseph Wright. I'm not so sure.
I believe that the photo may have been taken in Bordon; R G Waller was a photographer in the town.
BTW, apologies to the forum for exceeding the attachment limit last time. :-[
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Well, I agree, I don't think the last pic is the same chap...
This will explain the Bing Boys bit.....
http://footlightnotes.tripod.com/20031025home.html
I though it rang a bell...A popular entertainment of the time....
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I had a Regt Dinner this weekend and have been away I'm afraid, mum!! ;D
Well Mike you couldn't have had better assistance than "my son".
The Northamptonshire Regiment is his passion. :)
Or should I say any thing Military.
I'm trying to find why
Sorry I did not read the 1st posting accurately.
Sandy
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Just an addenda...The first and second pics were taken around 1918/9 I reckon...No earlier than 1917 though....That cut of tunic on the first pic didn't come in until late 1915/early 1916, and then the QM would have issued the old stock first!
The collar was not "tidied up " in this fashion until late 1917...
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Sandy,
Many, many thanks. No need to apologise. I appreciate you taking the trouble to send me those census transcripts. And I hadn't expected to get so much info so quickly. It's a great "family" you've got.
Scrimnet,
Thanks for the further info. I had wondered whether "Bing" was a revered officer, but your suggestion of a reference to a popular musical of the time seems much more likely.
The detective work on the uniform is pretty impressive. Am I correct in assuming that the crown above the Sergeant's stripes means that Joseph was a Staff Sergeant, or the equivalent rank in the AVC ? I guess that ties in with the photo being dated later than the family originally thought since he would presumably have entered the AVC at his previous rank of Private.
BTW, did you receive my PM ? A copy should have been stored in my "Sent Mail", but it's not there. I'm not being pushy, honest. :)
And if anyone out there wants a look-up in the 2nd Boer War Casualty Rolls, I'd be happy to oblige, although pressures of family and work means that I may not be as quick to respond as Sandy and Scrimnet.
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Have received PM, but "tonight" not over yet!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The book is being a bit of a beast to copy...It's over 70yrs old and a bit fragile...also it's apparently worth a few hundred, so i'm doing this in slow time for you... 8) ;)
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Hi Scrimnet,
Apologies. I've been away from the forum for a while, stumbling down other blind alleys 8). I only found your 14th September post this evening. No need to apologise. I'm still no further forward so any light you, or any other forum members, can shed on my darkness will be welcomed with open arms, whenever it comes. :)