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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Caernarvonshire => Topic started by: big g on Sunday 20 September 09 15:05 BST (UK)
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This photo was in the Welsh photo album I recently was successful in obtaining via Ebay. It belonged to my grandmother's cousin Jane (Jennie) Blodwen Williams.
It is possibly Rhianfa, Carmel, her family home, or Llystwrog, Upper Llandwrog, home of Rev. Stanley Hadyn Williams.
Does anyone recognise this house?
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r283/4corrin/Image0002-1.jpg)
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Hello big g,
There is an estate agent's advertisement on the web for Rhianfa, Carmel and the photo makes it clear that it is not the same house as in your photo.
http://www.jamesproperties.co.uk/rhianfainfo.pdf
Have you established where Jane Williams was in the census returns for the period? Can you give an idea of the year the photo was taken? I would age the house as late Victorian but I am not an expert in this field.
Jo
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Hi Jo,
Thanks for the link; I now know what Rhianfa looks like!!!!!
Jane Blodwen Williams born 1897 Caernarvon,
1901 census living Cae Goronwy, Llandwrog with her parents, Robert Parry and Sydney Williams, and sister, Ellen Maud.
1906 her father dies at Rhianfa, Carmel.
1911 census, she is at Rhianfa with her mother and sister.
1917 she dies Hyde Fever Hospital, she was a probabationary nurse.
1940 her mother dies at Celtic, Sergontium Rd South, Caernarvon.
Glenys
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Hello big g,
I wonder about Cae Goronwy but have no definite knowledge that it is this.
An idea might be to post the photo on the Roots Chat Photograph Board and ask someone to date it. Not easy with a house but the style and colour of the photo might be enough for the expert eyes.
Jo
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Thanks Jo,
Wll do as you suggest.
Glenys
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Hi
I live within about one and a half miles of Rhianfa, Cae Goronwy and Llys Twrog. Had a look at all 3 properties yesterday. You already know it's not Rhianfa; and does not appear to be one of the other two either. Weather wasn't very good, so I only had a look at these two properties from a couple of fields away; I'll have another look when we get some decent weather. I've given a copy of the picture to someone to pass on to a friend who has lived all his life in the area and has written a book about the homesteads in the area, to see if he recognises it. He should get it this evening.
Emyr
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Emyrborth,
Apologies for not replying sooner - I have been away for a couple of days.
Thanks for taking an interest; I do appreciate any help that kind folk such as yourself offer!
Glenys
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Hi
Can now confirm picture is not of Cae Goronwy or Llys Twrog. Have not heard from my friend, but now realise that he would have been busy last few days. Have also checked out Meillionydd which you mention in another posting. There have been so many alterations/additions to this property it's difficult to work out what it originally looked like, but am pretty certain it's not the property in the picture.
On the positive side I've found an article in the On-line edition of the Dictionary of Welsh Biography, about the brother of Rev Stanley Haydn Williams, William Ewart Williams. I've had a problem creating a link to the website, but if you put "william ewart Williams" into a search engine, you'll find the website, National Library of Wales :: Dictionary of Welsh Biography. Click on 'W', then scroll down to 'Williams, William Ewart', you'll find that he was a distinguished scientist involved in the American missile program. It mentions his brother Rev Stanley, and another brother Robert Arthur Williams of Sydney, Australia. There is also information on the parents and of the family grave.
According to the article, the family home was Bodgarad, Rhostryfan. As I was going thro' Rhostryfan today (Sunday), I decided to have a look at the property. The last few hundred yards is along a rough farm track and I decided not to take my car along it. As it was raining quite heavily I decide to leave visiting it until I get a dry day. Forecast for this area is reasonable for tomorrow afternoon. I have walked past the property a couple of years ago, but don't remember what the property looks like. I'll also have a look at the family grave at Carmel sometime during the week. I only came across the article today; I was jogging/walking within about 100 yards of the cemetry yesterday.
According to the article, Llys Twrog is the Rev Stanley's mother's home.
Emyr
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Emyrborth,
Thanks so much.
I have seen the item re William Ewart Williams. I have also visited Meillionydd, upper Llandwrog, and as you say there have been many alterations to this home over the years.
Several years ago I was taken to St.Thomas' graveyard, Groeslon, ( church no longer standing) by a relative from Muriau, Penygroes, who sadly is no longer with us.
I would be so grateful to know if the house at Rhostryfan is the one in the photo, but please don't go to any trouble of finding it in this awful weather.
I will be away from my computer again until Friday, but hope to be able to access this site from my daughter's laptop !!
Regards,
Glenys
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Hi
Visited Bodgarad today; not the house in the picture. Spoke to the owner; he's lived there since 1950, and had no connection with previous occupiers and had never heard of the Rev. Stanley. Visited Pisgah Cemetry, and found grave of the Rev, Stanley's parents etc, but not his. Had to ask a local where the cemetry was, as there is no cemetry by the chapel, it's a few hundred yards away. His recollection was that the Rev retired to Llys Twrog, and he thinks he was a minister in the Deiniolen/Llanberis area. Can easily check this out. The local thought that he was buried at Pisgah, but I failed to find the grave. It shouldn't be difficult for me to check this out either. The inscription on his parent's gravestone (it's a double grave), is in Welsh. Basic details are: In memory of:
Ellis William Williams, Llys Twrog d. 31 May, 1946 aged 79.
His wife for 49 years, Jane Williams, Llys Twrog, d. 13 July 1941, aged 73.
Also their children.
Helena Maggie Williams d. in London 9 December 1919, aged 21.
Ellis Ivor Williams d. 10 April 1955, aged 59.
Elsie Kate Williams d. 28 April 1900, aged 4 months.
Lying flat on the middle of the grave is a stone carved in the shape of an open book. On the left it says, " W. Ewart Williams D.Sc. 1894 - 1966 "; and on the right side, "Sarah E. Williams M.A. 1895 - 1969.
Emyr
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Morning Emyr,
Thank you so much for going to the trouble of visiting the cemetery and finding all that info !!
I had some of this info, but didn't know where they were buried nor was I aware of the baby, Elsie Kate Williams who died aged 4 months.
William Ewart Williams and his wife Sarah lived in California and both died there; he was a scientist.
Whereabouts is Pisgah Cemetery ?
This house is proving a problem to identify - any suggestions for my next step?
Regards,
Glenys
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Hi
I'll confine comments here to matters re the house and post other info under 'Rev Stanley Haydn Williams'.
According to his obituary in the local paper, Stanley served as a minister at Llangollen, Meifod, Trefriw and Deiniolen. According to the C.M. denominational publication he served at Gellilydan, Meifod, Trefriw and Deiniolen. The picture does not appear to be of a house in this area (Rhostryfan/Rhosgadfan/Carmel/Y Fron). It's possibly in one of the other areas Stanley resided at. Pictures taken by a photograppher from Blaenau Ffestiniog would tie in with him having resided at Gellilydan. Have contacts I'll see in a couple of weeks time that could possibly help re Gellilydan and Trefriw areas.
Possibly someone else from these other locations might be able to help.
Emyr
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Emyr,
Thanks again for information that I did not have re Stanley's ministry.
Glenys
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I asked my mother today, and she thought the house might be in Carmel.
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Huwcyn,
Thanks for that info - as a lot of the family were from that area it's a strong possibility.
Glenys
:)
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Hi Big G,
Just wondering whether you ever managed to identify the house after all these years?
I currently live in Carmel, I don't recognise the house but I haven't lived here long. I can ask around the village for you if you're still looking.
Woostie :)
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I don't know if it helps but that house looks like it was built in the 1930s or just after. Architects stopped using those large overhangs after the second WW as councils wanted ther houses to be a lot less complicated to build. Less cost, quicker to build. It may be the first house on right as you turn into Carmel main street with a bit of tweeking.