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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Montgomeryshire => Topic started by: jasper1 on Sunday 04 October 09 01:40 BST (UK)
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Hello I hope you can help.
I am researching my dad's family tree and having a lot of difficulty on the paternal side. His surname is Lloyd-Davies. How it evolved from Davies to Lloyd-Davies in three generations is a mystery which I am trying to unravel.
I have a copy of a Welsh bible with 'Richard Davies Glanmorfa Llangadfan July 25 1873 aged 20' written on the flyleaf. It has been in the family for years.
I think he was my great grand-father's brother.
This is all I know of my family from my dad (now aged 80):-
His grandfather was David L Davies born about 1849 in Llangadfan. He married Adelaide Ellen Youngman a Suffolk miller's lass, goodness knows where they met, but from the late 1870s the family was living in Cheltenham where he worked as a tailor.
His son was Edward Lloyd Davies, born in Cheltenham in 1886.
My dad knows nothing about David L Davies other than he had a brother, the aforementioned Richard.
There were two daughters whose father was ?Richard? or another brother? - these were Edward L-D's cousins although as a child I called them great-aunts.
Margaret Davies or Lloyd Davies (aunty Maggie) born about 1891 lived in the hamlet of Minllyn near Mallwyd near Aberangell. She was a spinster and provided lodgings for the church minister.
The other sister was Mary (aunty Polly). She was born in the 1890s and married Tom Rees who was a slate miner at Corris near Machynlleth. They lived at a house called Bryn Massarn in Aberangell and had no children. They are both buried in the church yard in Aberangell.
I would be really appreciative of any help in working out which is 'my' David Davies!
As my grandfather Edward Lloyd-Davies was the only son of David Davies, my own father, as the only son of Edward, is the last of his line. It would be good to know if there are any Davies blood relatives still around.
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David L Davies born about 1849 in Llangadfan married Adelaide Ellen Youngman Suffolk 1870s the family was living in Cheltenham where he worked as a tailor. His son was Edward Lloyd Davies, born in Cheltenham in 1886.
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Hi Jasper1,
Hope I've got the order right starting with your father
Mr. DAVIES aged 80
only son of
Edward Lloyd DAVIES b1886 Cheltenham
only son of
David L DAVIES b1849 Llangadfan occ. Tailor married
Adelaide Ellen Youngman b1850 Suffolk.
As a starting point you could order David's marriage certificate, this would confirm David & Adelaide's fathers names.
www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates
Here is the marriage entry from BMD site for
David Lloyd DAVIES
Adelaide Ellen YOUNGMAN
Dec. qtr. 1879 District Cheltenham Vol. 6a Page no. 831
As my grandfather Edward Lloyd-Davies was the only son of David Davies, my own father, as the only son of Edward, is the last of his line. It would be good to know if there are any Davies blood relatives still around.
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It would seem that David & Adelaide had another son before your grandfather Edward Lloyd Davies b1886 Cheltenham
see details from 1881 census below
2 Caledonian Cotts King St Cheltenham, Gloucester, England
David L DAVIS head age 32 Mongomery Tailor
Adelaide E DAVIS wife age 31 Suffolk Dress maker
John F DAVIS son age 3 Cheltenham
RG11 / 2571 / 96 / 15
I have a copy of a Welsh bible with 'Richard Davies Glanmorfa Llangadfan July 25 1873 aged 20' written on the flyleaf. It has been in the family for years. I think he was my great grand-father's brother.
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I don't know whether this is a coincidence on the 1881 census there is a Richard Davies b1853 Llangadfan with father Edward Lloyd DAVIES - Could this be David L DAVIES brother & father (note the dwelling place name)
Edward DAVIES Head M 69 b1812 Llangadfan Turner
Margared DAVIES Wife M 71 b1810 Llangadfan Dressmaker
Margared DAVIES Daur U 30 b1851 Llangadfan Dressmaker
Richard DAVIES Son U 28 b1853 Llangadfan Sawier
Hugh DAVIES Son U 20 b1861 Llangadfan Setrcorier
Thomas Edward DAVIES Grand Son 4 b1877 Manchester
(Grandson Thomas could be their daughers Margaret's son or did theyhave another son) :-\
Dwelling, Glanmorfa, Llangadfan, Montgomery, Wales
RG11 5496 / 25 / 6
Unfortunately I don't have access at present to view censuses on line to see if Richard & David are together with father Edward DAVIES on 1851 or 1861c but I'm sure someone will take a look for you.
There's an entry on
1861c
Edward Lloyd DAVIES b1812 married to Margret registration district Llanfyllin, sub-dist. Llanfair
and
1851c Edward DAVIES b1812 married to Margret reg. dis. Llanfyllin
Hope this helps a little :)
DAVIES becoming LLOYD-DAVIES perhaps one of the son's took their mother's maiden name :-\
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Thank you that is so helpful.
I asked dad about his father's older brother John F Davies. He was John Fitt Youngman, Adelaide Ellen's son by a former relationship but brought up as a Davies. Adelaide also had a daughter, Laura Youngman who was in service at the time of that census. My dad's aunty Laura was born in 1871 and died in Cheltenham aged 100. She remained a spinster, was in service all her life and is buried next to Edward Lloyd-Davies, her half brother and my grandfather, in Cheltenham.
Many thanks for inspiring me. I am now intrigued about the 1881 census - Edward and Margred Davies'
grandson Edward born in Manchester!
And who was aunty Maggie and aunty Polly's dad I wonder?
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Many thanks for inspiring me. I am now intrigued about the 1881 census - Edward and Margred Davies'
grandson Edward born in Manchester!
Hi Jasper1,
You could put a request on the England Lancashire board and ask if anyone can look up Thomas Edward DAVIES b1877 Manchester on 1891 & 1901c - hopefully he may be back living with his parents
On FreeBMD there are a few births for a Thomas Edward DAVIES around 1876/77 :-\
Ladyhawk :)
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Hi Jasper1,
Good news I hope this could well be the link to your LLOYD-DAVIES family as both David b1849 & Richard b1854 Llangadfan, Montgomery together on census with father Edward Lloyd Davies and with David naming his son b1886 Edward Lloyd Davies and the house/place name same as written in your bible Glanmorfa.
1861 census RG9 / 4260 living at GLANMORFA
Edward Lloyd Davies head 42 b1819 occ. Sawyer
Margred Lloyd Davies wife 49 b1812 Dressmaker (possibly Margaret)
John ditto son 15 b1846 Sawyer
David " son 12 b1849 scholar
Margred " dau 11 b1850 "
D....? " dau 10 b1851 "
b]Richard " son 7 b1854 "[/b]
Jane Elizabeth " dau 5 b1856 "
Hugh " son 2 b1859
all born in Llangadfan, Montgomery.
And who was aunty Maggie and aunty Polly's dad I wonder?
perhaps the the father of Margaret & Mary (Polly) Davies was Hugh :-\ I don't think it's John see 1881 RG11/5544 / 48/2 below
Hendre Isa Llanymowddwy, Merioneth, Wales
1881 census
John DAVIES Head M 35 Llangadfan Farmer Laborar
Elizabeth DAVIES Wife M 33 Llangadfan Laborars Wife
Ann DAVIES dau 11 Llangadfan Scholar
Elizabeth DAVIES Dau 9 Llangadfan Scholar
Margaret DAVIES Dau 6 Llangadfan Scholar
Re: your gg/f David Lloyd DAVIES - sorry don't have full details of the census
1891 Cheltenham
David L Davies 42
Adelaide E 40
John F 13
Margaret E 9
Edward L 5
1901 Cheltenham
David Davies 52
Ellen 51
Laura Youngman 30
Margaret Davies 19
Edward Davies 15
Edward DAVIES b1816 occ Sawyer on 1841 c Montgomery &
Edward DAVIES b1813 Llangadfan occ.Sawyer on 1851 c Mongomery, sorry but I can't check it out for you as I've just used up last of my credits :(
I wonder if you find the marriage of Edward DAVIES to Margred/Margaret whether her maiden name was LLOYD or the birth record for Edward DAVIES b1819 whether his mother's maiden name could be LLOYD :-\
Hope you find out who the parents are of Thomas Edward DAVIES b1877 Manchester and who's the father of Margaret & Mary DAVIES
Good Luck :)
forgot to add
death entry for
Edward Lloyd DAVIES aged 69
Sep q 1881 Llanfyllin vol. 11b page 138
1891c parish of Llangadfan RG12/4599/104/10
Richard DAVIES Head age 37 occ joiner &
Hugh DAVIES brother age 30 occ. gen. labourer
both born Llangadfan & single
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Hi Jasper,
Don't know if you've have the following but I think this maybe your DAVIES family from 1841 :-\
1841c HO107/1438/7/4 Llangadfan
Edward DAVIES head age 25 Sawyer
Margaret wife 30
Emma dau 6
Edward son 5
Margaret dau 3
Jane dau 2
Dorothy dau 3 months
1851c HO107/2499/198/14
Edward DAVIES head age 38 sawyer
Margaret wife 39
Emma MORGAN dau 16
Edward DAVIES son 15
John 5
David 3
Margaret dau 1
1861 census RG9 / 4260 living at GLANMORFA
Edward Lloyd Davies head 42 b1819 occ. Sawyer
Margred Lloyd Davies wife 49 b1812 Dressmaker (possibly Margaret)
John ditto son 15 b1846 Sawyer
David " son 12 b1849 scholar
Margred " dau 11 b1850 "
Daret " dau 10 b1851 "
b]Richard " son 7 b1854 "[/b]
Jane Elizabeth " dau 5 b1856 "
Hugh " son 2 b1859
all born in Llangadfan, Montgomery
1871c RG105627/64/1 Glanymorfa
Edward DAVIES head age 58 sawyer
Margred wife 59
Margred dau 21
Richard son 16
Hugh son 12
Evan PRYCE grandson 9
all born Llangadfan
1881c Glanmorfa, Llangadfan RG11/5496/25/6
Edward DAVIES Head M 69 b1812 Llangadfan Turner
Margared DAVIES Wife M 71 b1810 Llangadfan Dressmaker
Margared DAVIES Daur U 30 b1851 Llangadfan Dressmaker
Richard DAVIES Son U 28 b1853 Llangadfan Sawyer
Hugh DAVIES Son U 20 b1861 Llangadfan Setrcorier ??
Thomas Edward DAVIES Grand Son 4 b1877 Manchester
1891c parish of Llangadfan RG12/4599/104/10
Richard DAVIES Head age 37 occ joiner
Hugh DAVIES brother age 30 occ. gen. labourer
both born Llangadfan & single
Ladyhawk :)
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Hello Jasper1,
I believe we are related. My gr.gr grandfather was Richard Davies born in 1852 in Loughor. He was married to Sarah Hanson Rees, born in 1851 in Glamorganshire. They had 6 children. Their daughter, Sara Jane Davies was born on 3 April, 1873 in Cwmafon. (my great grandmother)
I hope we can share more information. I'm happy the bible has stayed in the family. I don't believe I can help you solve the Lloyd-Davies mystery, though!
Hope to hear back,
Poplin7
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Edward Lloyd Davies was my Gt-Gt Grandfather. I have copies of the Parish records from 1772 to 1879 for Llangadfan. I have only just come across this posting and not read all the replies yet but I will read them later and hopefully I can be of some help. Will reply again after I have digested what has been sent.
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I can explain where Lloyd came from in Edward Lloyd Davies (b1812).
Edward Lloyd Davies Grandparents were Richard Thomas and Elizabeth Lloyd.
His parents were David Davies b1775 in Moelfeliarth Montgomeryshire and Baptised on 1 Jan 1776 in Llangadfan and Dorothy Thomas b 1771 in Llangadfan.
Edward Lloyd Davies had four sisters and one brother David Davies b 1808.
He married Margaret (Margred) Davies (b1812) in Llangadfan in 1835
They had 14 children of whom 5 died in 1849 of Scarletina.. Emma Morgan was the illegitimate daughter of Robert Morgan & Margaret Davies the year before she married Edward. There are a couple of things to bear in mind. When a child died they named the next baby after the one who had died which is confusing and do not confuse John Davies b 7 Feb 1846 in Llangadfan with John Davies (Later John Cadvan Davies) born 1st October 1846 in Llangadfan. He was the son of Richard and Jane Davies and was famous.
This information is from the transcript of the Llangadfan Parish Records by Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society.
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Double barrels are probably adopted due to some sort of inheritance, e.g. if an uncle who had no children died, he might will his estate to a godson on the grounds that his surname be adopted in some form.
David Davies, bpt. 26 May 1848 in Llangadfan, son of David Davies, of Lletty Meudwy, Sawyer & Margaret
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Hi there my name is Lynne and I think the people that you refer to in your post is my Great Aunt and Uncle on my mothers side. Auntie Polly as we called her (Mary Susanah) and Uncle Tommy) lived at that exact address and I spent many happy holidays with them as a child. As you already know Uncle Tom and Auntie Polly are buried in the locoal church yard. Maggie is buried on a hillside churchyard a Dinas Mawdy (forgive the spelling) there were also two other sister Annie, my Grandfathers mother and Lizzie. My family tree is on Genes Reunited and I will be happy for you to look at it. I am currently researching this branch of the family and it is proving quite difficult, perhaps we can exchange notes,
Regards Lynne
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What a shame Jasper has not returned to his thread. I had been searching for John Fitt Youngman b.1878 for a long time.
I knew Adelaide had had Laura Youngman b. 1870 out of wedlock and wondered if she could also have had John Fitt Youngman b 1878, naming him after her father John Fitt Youngman b. 1821. I also knew Adelaide had married a David Lloyd Davies.
So after 'Google ing' John Fitt Youngman I came across this thread. So Jasper, if you want any info on Adelaide's ancestors please let me know.
Christine
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Hello, I am still here. Have been busy getting my head round the Miles/Lloyd-Davies ancestors thanks to people on this forum - many thanks, you know who you are! It meant a mental journey round the Worcester area then a trek over to Llangadfan and then Anglesey.
So now to the Youngmans and Suffolk! Here's what info I have already which may be inaccurate so any clarification would be welcome.
My paternal great grandfather was David (Lloyd) Davies who married Adelaide Youngman. born Bentley. Suffolk. Her daughter Laura Youngman was born about 1871 and died Cheltenham 1971, she was my dad's great aunt Laura, single and lived to be 100. There was also a William Walter Youngman b 1870ish may have also been a child of Adelaide and brother of Laura but not sure
David and Adelaide lived in Cheltenham and had Edward (Lloyd) Davies b 1886(my grandfather), Dorothy (1888died young)and Margaret1882.
John Fitt Youngman aka Davies also features in the family of David and Adelaide b Cheltenham1878/9ish - not sure whether he was a son or cousin or other random relative.
He married a Tewkesbury lass called Ellen around 1897 and they lived in Cheltenham and had two sons John Edward or Edward John b 1898ish and Frederick John b 1900ish.
John E lived in Southsea and married Ethel Peach? and they had a son John and daughter Joy b 1930. That's where my Youngman descendants according to my father's memory, peters out....
In terms of the ancestors: Adelaide had 3 sisters Susannah, Hannah and Annie.
Their father was John Fitt Youngman b 1821.
John Fitt Youngman senior's father was Benjamin Youngman b about 1796 Walsham Suffolk from a family of Suffolk millers dating back to Saxon East Anglia.
I'd love to have concrete info on the Youngmans though! :)
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Hello Jasper, thanks for getting back to me. I am tracing the ancestors of Frederick John Youngman b.1900 Cheltenham. I have the parents of John Fitt Youngman b. 1821 as a William Youngman and a Mary Fitt. They married
14 OCT 1819 Suffolk County Bts, Suffolk, England. Source IGI.
Sorry, but this is not concrete evidence. Presumption more than anything though. Will have a dig around for a while, then must get some sleep.
Is there a private messaging system on this site?
Regards Christine.
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Glanymorfa Llangadfan no trace now exist of this property but was situated near the Junction of the Llanfyllin road with the A483?. A Richard Davies moved there from Llety Meudwy and changed the name to Llety
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Thanks cennydd
I have been to Llangadfan last month and so found where the original Llety Medw was (and the house next door Dolypebyll) and also the site of Glan y Morfa which as you rightly point out, was known as Llety. Nothing remains now as the school is there. Also went to the church yard and found the graves of all the children who died of the scarlet fever in the 1840s
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Jasper sorry Glanymorfa was not by the school but by the Junction of the Main road with the Llanfyllin/Lake Vyrnwy road. A large agricultural shed stands on it now. The ex dwelling in the corner of school was Argoed. You did well to find Llety Meudwy some one else in Llangadfan must know as much as me
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Hello everyone
I'm very late to these conversations! I hope you are all still actively researching.
I am the granddaughter of Daisy Youngman, daughter of John Fitt Youngman. I am very curious to know whether John Fitt Youngman's father is in fact David Davies given that he is not listed on John's Baptism record. Obviously Davies married John's mother Adelaide Ellen Youngman within a very short time after his birth. I can't find any obvious answer. He sometimes is recorded as Davies and most frequently as Youngman. Would be good to find some corroborative DNA answers which link me to the Davies family and tie up the loose ends.
regards to all!
Jenni