RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: DowneyD on Tuesday 20 October 09 16:33 BST (UK)
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I am hoping someone out there will be able to help me locate the descendants of Frank Baldwin Albon. D.O.B. 04/02/1889.
Known after 1911 as Frank Allen.
Frank was admitted to a Dr Barnardo's home in March 1893 after the death of his mother (Margret Albon) and the tragic suicide of his father (Amos Albon). He left Liverpool and arrived in Canada in 1900. Frank was indentured to the Lund family according to 1901 Census. He joined the Canadian Expeditionary Forces in Winnipeg on the 24th Feb. 1916 becoming a member of the 100th Winnipeg Grenadiers.
Thank you in advance
DowneyD
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You have a death date for him it seems - where did he die? An obituary for him if you can locate one will be the best way of finding any living relatives.
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I do not know where abouts in Canada Frank died. The date was given by another relative now deceased. Thank you for the advice but not sure how to get obituary when I have no location.
DowneyD
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Okay, so that makes it much harder. One thing you could do with the information you have now is order his complete service file for WWI:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-130-e.html
This is likely to have more information about where he was after the war. As he was working on the railway before signing up he could have moved around quite easily, either around Canada or into the US.
There doesn't seem to be any marriage for him in Manitoba but he could well have not married until later in life. Because of the common name it's a bit hard (and if he did die in 1964 most of the provinces don't have indexes online that later).
There is a 1932 directory of Winnipeg online; by that point the only Frank Allen there is a different person (he's a professor at the univeristy, and this man was b. 1874). So the best I can say is that he may not have stayed in Winnipeg after the war:
http://peel.library.ualberta.ca/bibliography/921.html
Perhaps also chase up the Lunds. If they all went to get land in Alberta or something then he may have gone along with them, and it might be easier to trace them.
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Thank you so much for your advice, I will follow up those suggestions. The only other thing I have is that one or more of his children lived in London Ontario, and one son died there in the late 80's or early 90's. I do not even have names for Frank's children.
thanks
DowneyD
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Well, that does help a lot because it gives you a location and tells us that you know he had a son at least.
You could consider putting what you know about his life pre-WWI in a London newspaper to see if any children/grandchildren of his might still be in the area and interested in contact:
http://www.lfpress.com/
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I found his military records on ancestry. Do you have access? Let me know if you don't.
This is what they say:
He was not married, he was living at the Lacy Hotel, Winnipeg, Mr J.H. Lund was his next-of-kin, and was a Railway Fireman. He was 5'8", fully expanded chest size of 37 3/4" with 2" expansion room, fair complexion, fair hair and grey eyes. He had no distinguishing marks or peculiarities. His religion was Epistical (their spelling) - this might help for church records.
This also tells you that he married after 1916, which is helpful. There is also an address for J.H. Lund if you want that.
That's really all they say.
There isn't any discharge papers attached with follow-up for after the war.
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There isn't any discharge papers attached with follow-up for after the war.
Well, not on Ancestry there won't be; those are just the attestation papers which are taken straight from the National Archives of Canada site (and are free to view there, no special access needed ::) ). Any records relating to discharge will have to be ordered directly from the Canadian archives as they haven't been digitised (that's what this link is about: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-130-e.html )
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I know that they are free from the British military. Since Canada did not technically have its own military until 1931, wouldn't there be duplicates with the British?? I don't know, but it would make sense logically.
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I know that they are free from the British military. Since Canada did not technically have its own military until 1931, wouldn't there be duplicates with the British?? I don't know, but it would make sense logically.
:o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada
Karen
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Bookmarking for future reference...
Joseph Henry Lund is in Brandon for the 1911 census...with his wife Alice (nee Gibbons, from 1901 entry)
Farming...and Elkhorn ( where he is as friend on CEF signup ) is near Brandon...Lots of other Lund family there as well
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=26109.
How wonderful that he knows him as friend. :D They may also have attended each other's weddings, then...
I can look for obits as well. I can also trace him in Winnipeg by looking through the directories post war....as long as there aren't a hundred Frank Allen...(His hopes of getting the same job may have been slim post war)
I cannot do this right away...I usually go when things are slow for me...
If anything is found in the meantime...post it all so I can take notes when I go...
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I know that they are free from the British military. Since Canada did not technically have its own military until 1931, wouldn't there be duplicates with the British?? I don't know, but it would make sense logically.
:o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada
Karen
This is what I was talking about
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Westminster_1931
Yes, we had a military, but did we not `technically' go to war under the British? Maybe I'm wrong, but this isn't the place to discuss it since it's off topic.
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www.collectionscanada.gc.ca
Over 600,000 Canadians served in the CEF, Canadian Expeditionary Force during the WW1. The CEF database (attestation papers) is an index to the Canadian military files and are available to view at this site. Using the Ref. # the complete military file can be ordered on-line from Collections Canada. On the home page, under What We Do for the Public, you can order the complete file. Some files contain as many as 25 pages others much less. Under the Canadian Genealogy Centre section, click on military. You can search the database and you can view sample documents. Photocopying is 40 cents per page plus shipping and handling. Valuable information can be gathered from the military files especially if there were followup medicals and in some cases death information is also available. The CEF military records were separate from the BEF records.
I would definitely order his military records as they are not expensive and can be ordered on a secure on-line site.
You mentioned London, Ontario. I would search for a local genealogy site that may have access to obituaries or family histories that are not on-line.
Good luck, Val
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These are some sites for London, ON that you may want to look at.
http://londonmiddlesex.ogs.on.ca
The London and Middlesex County Branch of the Ontario Genealogy Society.
www.londonpubliclibrary.ca
Jorose gave you the site for the London Free Press. I would write a letter to the editor about Frank Allen looking for any surviving relatives. It can't hurt.
The London Public Library will probably have access to older obituaries and may be able to look up all with last name Allen.
Local genealogy groups sometimes have valuable information on families that isn't available on-line. I would write or e-mail the London branch and see if they have any family histories on surname Allen.
Good luck searching, Val
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meant to post this above
Frank Allen DOB 04/02/1890
Corporal
Regimental Number 216609
His attestation papers have his DOB as 1890 not 1889 and he is the first Frank on the list of 23.
Val
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Are Frank's siblings, Arthur Robert, Amos Gracie and Mildred Margaret all accounted for?
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Thank you all,
For taking so much trouble to help me with all this information, I am very new to this, so as much information, in an ABC approach, is appreciated. Including all offers of help. When Frank was born in Staines, Middlesex, England, his D.O.B. was 04/02/1889, this was changed to 1890 as you say in his attestation papers, along with his surname from Albon to Allen. I do not know much about the British Home Children yet, but I am learning. Do you think he changed his own name??? His brother my g. grandfather was left behind in the UK and sent to live with a relative in Scotland. Amos tried to keep in contact with both of his siblings through Dr Barnados, he lost touch with Frank when his name was changed, it was thought that Frank died in WW1. They had a sister Mildred Albon who was sent to Canada under the British Home Children in 1905. Mildred went into a McNeil household as a domestic servant. She later married a Malcolm McNeil and had one daughter Doris McNeil. Doris married a Larry McComb and they unfortunately had no children. I have been unable to find out any details of birth marriage or death for these individuals.
thank you all so much for your help
Downey D
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Arthur died as an infant.
Amos lived until 1966, and although I never met him, I now have family that have brought him to life, he had a hard start in life on the Mars Training ship, but went on to have eleven children.
Mildred remains a shadowy figure, who moved from orphanage to foster homes and eventually ended up in Canada in 1905. Amos kept in touch with Mildred, losing touch with Frank when he changed his name and sadly ended up believing he had died in WW1.
Mildred's daughter Doris lived in London, Ontario, she was contacted to say that one of Frank's sons (her cousin) had died. Very sad that she had cousins that she knew nothing about living in her own town. Doris I believe died about five years ago.
Thank you for your interest
Downey D
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DowneyD ...we are especially concerned about finding all we can about Home Children for those searching...If Frank knew his sister had arrived in Canada and was in Ontario, then that would have been a pull to stay East after the war. i likely won't find him after signup in 1916...but will still look
Here is our site for BHC, now updated with your two http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=355348.0
For others who may be searching...Mildred in 1911
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=140799
Can you post the links of your Frank on the censuses, as I don't see him
and welcome to rootschat by the way!
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I think that you have more information than you may think. You know that members of both Frank and Mildred's families lived in London, Ontario. You know the name of Mildred's daughter and who she married. The London Public Library will probably be able to help you with obituaries. If both Frank and Mildred were living in the London area, it is entirely possible they were in touch with each other. You have stated that Doris was contacted to inform her that one of her cousins (Frank's son) had died. Obviously the person who contacted her had a connection to both families.
I noticed something interesting on the 1911 census form through automated genealogy. The enumerator for the district was Malcolm McNeil. He could be the same person as head of the family where Mildred was a domestic servant. If Mildred married this Malcolm, probably after the death of his wife, he was 28 years older than her. He had sons older than her and his youngest son was a student teacher.
I also couldn't find anything on Frank Albon/Allen on either the 1901 or 1911 census so I would be interested in where you obtained census info. I did find a Frank Allen, right age, 1911, living in Winnipeg.
I think you need to organize the information that you have with all the dates, places and names. If this was my family I would definitely concentrate on London, ON.
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Found Mildred going to Scotland.....
Mildred Albon
Occupation: Domestic
Age: 22
Port of Departure: Boston, Mass., USA & Halifax (she got on in Halifax)
Port of Arrival: Glasgow, Scotland
Ship: Hesperian
Date of Arrival: December 20, 1913
She comes back to Canada......
Mildred Albon
Age: 22
Occupation: Domestic
Destination: Kerwood, Ontario
Date of Arrival: March 21, 1914
Ship: Alsatian
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Karen
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I noticed something interesting on the 1911 census form through automated genealogy. The enumerator for the district was Malcolm McNeil. He could be the same person as head of the family where Mildred was a domestic servant. If Mildred married this Malcolm, probably after the death of his wife, he was 28 years older than her. He had sons older than her and his youngest son was a student teacher.
No, there are 2 Malcolm McNiel's. If you look at the 1901 census, Malcolm who Mildred married is living with his parents Alexander and Katie, the other Malcolm that Mildred is working for in the 1911, is on the 1901 with his wife and children.
Karen
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This looks like a good match for Frank in the 1911 census. He is a border living in Qu'Appelle, Saskatchewan. His date of birth is Feb/1889.
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=142949
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Mildred and Malcolm are buried in Strathroy, Ontario
http://www.islandnet.com/ocfa/search.php
Karen
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You probably have this but if not the obit may say locale of Frank...
19 February 1941...so young...
c2 - Death of - Mrs Mildred Albon McNeil, 51st year, Feb 16, wife of Malcolm McNeil
http://www.elginogs.ca/newsindexes/timesjournal/sttj1941janthrujun.htm
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/07bw/
Frank in 1901 with Wesley and Cora Lund.
Debbie
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Here's a site to read through regarding Joseph Henry as he was born "Ripley" and adopted by John Wesley Lund & Cora Lund...
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/l/u/n/Martin-B-Lund/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0240.html
Note though that Sackville is in NewBrunswick, and Joseph is not in the household in 1881 ..just son Harry ( J.H. Ripley was born c.1876 )
Oh, I see it now the Ripley children were BORN in N.S. ( Amherst, Cumberland ) I see some children in 1881..but not Joseph...Just interested in him as he'd befriended your Frank. I imagine he felt for his situation, that's for sure...
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Thank you all for your efforts on my behalf.
I had not found the records of Mildred's journey to Scotland, although the Barnardo's letter said that she had visited Amos in Scotland. A big thank you. I did not know where Malcolm and Mildred McNeil were buried so another big thank you.
Both of Frank's siblings had tried to locate him after he stopped contacting them in 1912.
I feel that he must have wanted to be 'lost' to the family, he changed his surname, and did not put his family as next-of-kin when he signed up for the CEF. I find this rejection of his family strangely personal.
Both Mildred and Amos, went on trying to locate him through Barnados every decade. Mildred and Amos were in continuous contact despite the physical distance that divided them.
Barnardos tried to locate Frank contacting the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, the Lund's, The National Registration Bureau and the Department of National Defence, but without success.
Thank you all so much, will keep looking into all the leads.
Downey D
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Hi Downey,
I think you should order Frank's full military file. They can be a gold mine of information, I know my gr grandfather's has correspondence into the 1930's in them.
Karen
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KarenM
Thank you, I will do that, I did not know that more information could be added after the event, although it makes sense.
Downey D
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Mildred & Malcolm are indeed buried in Strathroy, Ontario Cem. The stone simply reads .. 'McNeil .. Malcolm E McNeil 1869 - 1944 his wife Mildred M Albon 1891 - 1941'
From the Age Dispatch, Strathroy Feb 20 1941 issue .... " MRS M McNEIL .. Following a lengthy illness, Mrs Mildred Albon McNeil died Sunday in Strathroy General Hospital in her 51st year. Mrs McNeil was born in Sussex, England, coming to Canada at the age of 14 and had resided in Adelaide, Metcalfe and Caradoc Townships. She was a member of the United Church. She is survived by her husband, Malcolm McNeil, one daughter, Miss Doris McNeil, of Adelaide Township, and a brother in England. The funeral took place from the home of Arthur Morgan, highway 22, near Kerwood, on Wednesday afternoon, with Rev. Mr Fydell, of Kerwood, officiating. Interment was in Strathroy Cemetery." (copied from microfilm .. at Strathroy Library)
PS .. KarenM told me of the mention of Strathroy Cemetery in your request .. as I live in the area
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Hi Ken S
Thank you for going too so much trouble on my behalf, it means a great deal to me. I have just found out that their daughter Doris died in November 2003.
I wonder what Mildred's long illness was, it is so sad that she died so young. Please could you resend email address as as soon as I opened it it disappeared.
Thank you
DowneyD
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Ken how fabulous...!
:D It looks as though she may have indeed married the older Malcolm, although they were kinder to his age when he died than the 1911..( altho I don't see a death for Margaret Isabelle( Maclean) McNeil....so this Malcolm might also have been a rellie, I suppose ...It is so great when we can have a large thread of information on BHC...wish we could do that with all of them.
Downey, don't feel badly that the brother didn't have much to do with the sister...we were brought up in a regular household and lots of love and my own brother has little to do with his siblings, as he's too busy with his own life...even when he's not really busy at all...It just happens with some people...
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Well done Ken!! Thanks for doing that!!
Karen
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Thank you KarenM
For asking Ken, it was very very kind, and I cannot put into words how much it means to me.
JJ is correct the dates of the marriage certificate and the stone show a marked discrepancy.
I have gained so much information, and knowledge on how to get the information, from this one thread. thank you
DowneyD
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::) Am I missing something, I can't see that there was ever a marriage found for them... :-\...( I've read through twice and didn't see it...J.J.
ah, now I see him, born 1869, with parents Alexander & Christie on the 1881 census in Brooke, Lambton...and the marriage, what I can see of it, on ancestry...I guess you'd all seen the marriage but nobody posted....
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I found the marriage between Malcolm McNeil and Mildred Margaret Albon on the 7th June 1916 she gives her age as 25 and he as 35 which would give his birth year as 1881 and not 1869.
How would I go about getting a death certificate in Canada?? Very curious to know what Mildred died of.
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When I first looked for McNeil in the Burial reg.... for Strathroy Cem .. and from there looked up the old newspaper obits .. I was a little confused .. as there was more than one Malcolm McNeil .. hence I found ... Burial reg .." McNeil Mrs Mac Feb 18 1941 / McNeil Malcolm Dec 27, 1941 / McNeil Malcolm (Doris Daughter) Dec 9 1944" .. so hence the first obit, I hunted up, was the wrong Malcolm .. from Dec 1941 .. "Malcolm McNeil - The funeral of Malcolm C McNeil well known retired farmer of Caradoc Township and resident of Strathroy for the last 10 years, was held from the residence, Colborne Street on Sat with the Rev H D Cameron officiating. Interment was made in Strathroy Cemetery with two Donald McNeills, two John McNeills, Duncan McNeill and Wilbur McLeish acting pallbearers. Mr McNeil died on Wed night at his home following a lengthy illness, in his 76th year. He was born in Caradoc Township, son of the late Donald McNeill and Margaret Campbell McNeill and lived all his life in that township until his retirement 10 years ago. He was a member of St Andrews Presbyterian Church. He is survived by one sister Miss ..? McNeill with whom he lived."
Now as I say ... this is the obit. for the other Malcolm McNeil... in the Strathroy Ontario Canada area ... but now that I look closer .. I think your Malcolm is McNEIL ... and the other Malcolm McNEILL
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Hi Ken S,
I am sure you have the correct Malcolm McNeil, it has always been confusing for Mildred worked for a Malcolm McNeil and married a Malcolm McNeil obviously not the same person, but I have always wondered if they were related in some way. I guess life is full of strange coincidences. Maybe you had the other Malcolm McNeil, the one she worked for according to the census.
Thank you again for all your effort on my behalf.