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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: allans on Tuesday 17 November 09 16:42 GMT (UK)

Title: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Tuesday 17 November 09 16:42 GMT (UK)
Ancestry's transcription for 1841, (unusually has real ages - and I know relationships aren't specified - but bear with me)
Quote
HO107/147/ 16 Folio: 63; p 29; .
has
Quote
Matthew Robarts 48
Rosie Robarts 49
Samuel Robarts 15
Joseph Robarts 13

I dont think the transcription of the wife's name is correct - looking a few lines above on the image is 'Ann' and I think the first letter of the wife's name also starts with 'A'

so - any ideas - what is her name?
I have Joseph 'Roberts' marriage cert, and am convinced this is 'my family', but I haven't found the marriage.
Matthew's death abt May 1850, registered Truro. I cant find her on 51 or death on BMD

Any help appreciated
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: rosie99 on Tuesday 17 November 09 16:56 GMT (UK)
Hi

It looks like Avise  ???

Rosie
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Tuesday 17 November 09 16:57 GMT (UK)
I should add
Matthew Roberts - 'possibly' son of Matthew Roberts and Honor, 1793 (from IGI)

Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Tuesday 17 November 09 16:58 GMT (UK)
yes - i had Avise in mind, and there are instances of forname =  'Avis' in the FreeBMD but that doesnt help as I have tried the 51 census and deaths for Avis Roberts or Robarts - no luck,
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: wozzle on Tuesday 17 November 09 17:02 GMT (UK)
possibly her
death index
avis roberts
y.o.r. 1870
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; truro
vol; 5c
page; 142
age at death; 77
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 17 November 09 17:05 GMT (UK)
I know you said Matthew died in 1850 ...
... but this looks like them in 1851, with the mystery lady unfortunately indexed as Ars  (could well be Avis)

HO107 1910 553 3

Kenwyn
Matthew Robarts 57 copper miner bn Port Isaac
Ars 58 bn ?(I dont know that area so cant work it out)
Elexander 11 grandson bn Kenwyn


maybe it was another Matthew who dies in 1850? maybe even an older son, father of Elexander (just surmising here)
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 17 November 09 17:12 GMT (UK)
And 1861

RG9 1561 27 1
Kenwyn
Matthew 60 Mine engine worker bn Port Isaac
Aves 70 bn Gwenap
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Tuesday 17 November 09 17:23 GMT (UK)
Hmm - so summarising
61 – Matthew 60, Aves 70
51 – Matthew 57, Ars 58
41 – Matthew 48, Avise 49

DC Avis 1870 Age 77

Apart from his age on 61 it does fit well, so ....

The 1850 death of Matthew could well be a red herring -
I'll do some more digging, maybe buy her DCert, look for his death etc.

Just wish I could find the marriage, and any other offspring to tie it together

Thanks for the input

Allan
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 17 November 09 17:37 GMT (UK)
Possibly Matthew still alive in 1871?

RG10 2286 54 26
Kenwyn
Matthew Roberts 78 Widower Tin miner bn Cornwall
Elizabeth A Whitford 51 dtr widow bn Gwenap
MAtthew Whitford 22 grandson bn Kenwyn
Samuel Whitford 12 grandson bn K
Alfred Wellington 7 greatgrandson bn K

4 generations under the one roof! family historians heaven!
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Tuesday 17 November 09 17:42 GMT (UK)
FH heaven - home owners nightmare ( was when my kids moved back in with their new baby fortunately it was only for 6 months :-X)

But that certainly opens possibilities for a previously unknown son.
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 17 November 09 17:47 GMT (UK)
unknown son.

Elizabeth is a daughter, so pres nee Roberts
I saw a likely one forher in 1851 with husband Thomas and numerous children incl a little Matthew (22 in 1871)
HO107 1910 589 29
childrens ages imply she was already married by 1841 but cant spot her.
Or of course the 1851 sighting may not be her at all.
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 17 November 09 17:51 GMT (UK)
But looking good ...

IGI has extracted christening:-

12 Sep 1819
Stithians
Elizabeth Ann Roberts
dtr of MAtthew and Avis !

Stithians is the place Avis (Ars) said she was born at in 1851!!
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Tuesday 17 November 09 17:53 GMT (UK)
true -
the 'Alexander' - or similar on the 51, age 11, grandson - there's a death in 57, Truro register , thats reasonable, but only birth rgeistered in Penzance in 1839, with a death shortly after - but death could be paret - - hmm

Your IGI came in whilst I was typying - excellent find./
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Tuesday 17 November 09 18:06 GMT (UK)
Did an IGI search purely on 'Avis' 1790+/- 10years from Cornwall - 140 of them -
BUT ;D
8 Avis Baptisms at Stithians in appropriate period
no marriages however - that doesnt seem to be on IGI
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Wednesday 18 November 09 15:28 GMT (UK)
Great stuff- thanks all-
but a puzzle
on 1871 there is Alfred Wellington, 7, Grandson of Matthew
On 1881 there is Alfred Whitford, 17, Great Grandson of Matthew

in 1864 there are BCs registered for both Alfred Welling ton and Alfred Whitford in an apropriate reg office.

Cant find Alfred Whitford on 71 or Alfred Wellington on 81

Why do answers always throw up more questions - thats the nature of this business I suppose.
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 18 November 09 15:56 GMT (UK)
is this alfred wellington in 1881
1881
RG11/2333/109/15
martin kistle age 58. b. st.agnes. occ. tin miner. head
elizabeth age 57. b. ditto. wife
john hocking age 17. b. gwinear. occ. tin miner
alfred wellington age 17. b. st.agnes. occ. tin miner. nephew
arthur wellington age 14. b. ditto. occ. tin mine employee. nephew
living at;illogan,cornwall
reg.dist; redruth
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Wednesday 18 November 09 16:02 GMT (UK)
Its possible
would need more work - on the 71 was this family missing their son Arthur?
Wellington as nephew would be either his sisters kid, or his wife is Elizabeth Wellington and this is her brothers son, or, worse
the son of her sister

But its worth looking into - I will take a look.
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 18 November 09 16:04 GMT (UK)
there is a alfred whitford age 7 on the 1871 born in gwennap living in redruth reg.dist
RG10/2314/9/9
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Wednesday 18 November 09 16:05 GMT (UK)
Nope - thats not them - both Arthur and Alfred are together on the 71
Title: Re: Mystery name in 1841 Census
Post by: allans on Wednesday 18 November 09 16:16 GMT (UK)
the Alfred, 7 on 71 is son of Thomas born 1818. It is certainly possible
but, as yet, I dont know that Matthew(1794) has a son Thomas in 1818 - although the time period is OK.

To prove / disprove this would need more info on children of Matthew and Avis, I only know of 3 children
Elizabeth, chr 1819 Stithians
Samuel (1826)[from 1841 census]
Joseph(1828) - my ancestor

I suspect at least one other child of Matthew and Avis, because on 1851 there is Alexander, age 11,(dies abt 1857), grandson
and these two Alfreds would suggest possible more children of Matthew and Avis