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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: elinga on Friday 20 November 09 01:41 GMT (UK)
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have recently discovered I had relatives from Arran would love to know more!
William Linn married Catherine McAlister in Kilmory Bute Isle of Arran on 11.10.1818
I know they had at least 2 children Elizabeth Linn (my ggg-grandmother) and William Linn.
any information would be greatly appreciated. ;D
regards
Elinga
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Elinga
Not sure if this is any help,
IGI #C115546 from Kilmory
All of these children are listed for William Lin(n) and Catherine McAlister
Betty Lin chr. 09 Jan 1831 Kilmory Bute
Janet Lin chr. 30 Nov 1823
Betty Linn chr. 01 Jun 1826
Mary Lin chr. 29 Oct. 1821
Mary Linn chr. 31 Aug. 1828
No William as a child though. A search on SP only listed Betty chr. 01 June 1826.
Szac
Szac
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No William as a child though. A search on SP only listed Betty chr. 01 June 1826
Hi :)
You might not have tried early enough Szac, SP has William Lin bpt. on 11 Dec 1818, Kilmory
(Betty, 1831 is down as Lin - they seem to be a mixture. I used Lin*)
I don't see them on the 1841 so far :-\
Gadget
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This is very odd - they all seem to have disappeared but I've found some more sons for them on SP:
Kilmory:
15 March 1833 Archibald Lin
25 March 1835 Archibald Lin
11 April 1837 Alexander Linn
So, if they're not on the 1841, something happened between 1837 and 1841
Gadget
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Think I might have found a possible family in 1841 down as Lean:
All the children's ages and names fit.
Townhead Street, Irvine, Ayrshire
595 Ed 1 P 13
Lean
William, 48, carter, b. Ireland
Margaret, 40
Mary,12
Elisabeth, 10
Archibald, 6
Alexander, 4
All but William b. Scotland
Maybe Catherine died and William remarried - worth checking
Gadget
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On the 1851 - a poss but looks like the same Willam from 1841 (same address/occupation)
Townhead Street, Irvine
59 5ED 1 P 19
Linn
William, 60, carter, b. Ireland
Agnes, sister, 54, housekeeper, b. Ireland
William, son, 8, b. Irvine
Gadget
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I'm thinking that you may have this, Elinga , but have put it up just in case:
1861
With daughter Elizabeth by the looks of it but she's down as boarder
Townhead, Irvine
595 ED 3 P 12
Linn
William, 72, carter, b. Ireland
William, son, 18, joiner's app, b. Irvine
Kerr
John, boarder, 24, coalminer, b. Kirkcolm, Wigtownshire
Elizabeth, boarder, 29, muslin sewer, b. Kilmore, Buteshire
Mary, boarder, 7, b. Irvine
Jane, boarder, 1, b. Irvine
Gadget
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Hello Elaine,
Just to link your Elizabeth Linn,
Donaldsons Land, Dreghorn, Ayr. 1881 census.
John Kerr, Head, Coal Miner, W. age 47 years, M. born Kirkcolm, Wigtown,
Jane Kerr, Daur, Housekeeper, U. age 21 years, F. born Irvine,
William Kerr, Son Coal Miner, U. age 18 years, M. born Irvine,
John Kerr, Son Coal Miner, U. age 12 Years, M. born Irvine,
Catherine Kerr, Daur Scholar, U. age 12 years, F. born Irvine,
Agnes Kerr, Daur, Scholar, age 8 years, F. born Irvine,
Margaret Kerr, Daur, age 4 years, F. born Irvine,
Archibald Linn, Brother in Law, U. age 45 years, M. born Arran, Bute.
As Daval, told you Elizabeth Linn, the above John Kerr's, wife died 1877. and her brother Archibald Linn, above is living with John Kerr, that more or less ties things up along with the earlier post above.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Haven't yet found a death for William - laptop is slow because of AV scan but will try to have another look later today.
Gadget
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Think I've found the death now (AV finished :) )
Jan 6th 1872, Kilmarnock:
William Linn, widow of Margaret McAlister, carter, aged 85. Parents - unknown.
Informant - George (and what looks like ) Kess or Ness :-\ son in law
To find his parents, it might be having to try to search for sister Agnes's death :-\
So Margaret/Catherine McAlister might well be the same person - again something to check up on.
Gadget
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Hi again :)
Further to my last post~
Janet Linn married George Ness on 21 Jan 1851 in Stevenston, Ayrshire
Gadget
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I think I might have found Catherine/Margaret's parents:
Baptism Kilmory,Bute
6 Feb 1798 Catherine MacAlester d/o Archibald McAlester and Mary Mackinnon
29 July 1803 Margaret MacAlester - same parents
(IGI extracted)
Gadget
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Hello Gadget,
If you look at Elaine's, post on Stirlingshire forum, a lot of this has been discussed save you duplicating searches.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Thanks Jonn ;D
Link:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,418288.0.html
Did they find the parents of Catherine and Margaret - I seem to see that one of the last posts was that there might be two - one set in Stirlingshire and one set in Arran ::)
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A possible link to Ireland:
IGI patron submitted :
William Lynn bpt. 1 march 1795, Carnmoney, Antrim Parents - William Lynn and Margaret
Also an Agnes Lin b.c 1800 Carnmoney
You would need to check up on the Irish boards as these are both patron submissions
Gadget
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Hi Elaine
Because of the information that is now scattered over two threads, can you tell us please, what you still need information on?
Gadget
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thank you Gadget
as john has said I actually started this search in Stirlingshire RED HERRING, bit Daval had been helping me further about Arran on that same board and John suggested I move to the Ayrshire board and as a newbie I reallly didnt know what I was supposed to do.
so I did that and although you have given me some information which I knew and I am sorry you had to start a new search but I really appreciate it as I was so confused I had so many peices of information and didnt know where to turn.
I have a marraige date for Elizabeth Linn and John Kerr 23.101853 from their daughter Mary´s marraige certificate to John Strachan in Irvine on 23.8.1878 or 1879 .
I have found a death certificate for William Linn who died 6.1.1872 in Hill Street Kilmarnock his son in law George Ness (who John has said was married to Janet, sister of Elizabeth Linn)registered the death but stated Williams wife as Margaret McAlister.
there the confusion lies as there is a Margaret and a Catherine!
Baptism Kilmory,Bute
6 Feb 1798 Catherine MacAlester d/o Archibald McAlester and Mary Mackinnon
29 July 1803 Margaret MacAlester - same parents
(IGI extracted)
a William Linn married a Catherine McAlister on the
11.10.1818 in Kilmory Bute
and thats just about it!
again I apologise for the confusion but I was being led.........
regards
Elaine aka Elinga
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Hi Elaine
At least we all came to the same conclusion.
One thing that points to Catherine being, at least the first wife (and Elisabeth's mother), is that all the children's baptism entries give Catherine as mother.
I had a look for the William (b.c 1843, Irvine on the 1851 census) but so far have not found an entry. This would give us the info, I think.
Margaret is down as 40 on the 1841. Which means that she could be 40-44 or born 1796-1801.
Gadget
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The plot thickens - unless they went back to Arran~
I've just found this baptism:
Kilmory
24 Aug 1841 William Lin s/o William Lin and Catherine McAlister
This does suggest that the Margaret is Catherine. I think :-\
Gadget
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Need an Arran specialist
The entry reads William Lin and Catherine McAlister in Benicagan/Berricagan .......
I think I might ask Arranroots :)
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I'm lurking!
:D
You might try the Arran Heritage Museum for questions about place names or genealogy - they're only open on Wednesdays during the winter but there's an email address too.
http://www.arranmuseum.co.uk/geneaology_section.htm
Having a think ...
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Bennecarigan.
It's on the Ross Road, in the south of the island by the looks of things - try Google maps.
:D
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Photos:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/445800
;)
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Thank you :)
Here's a Streetmap one of it's location:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/07in/
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thank you Gadget I am even more confused now ::)
Arranroots thank you too , I have taken a note of the email address of the museum and will write an email to them by Wednesday!
might even phone them as I really want to be less confused than I am right now!Elaine
;)
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Hi Elaine
It is a bit confusing, isn't it :-\
I've just checked up on marriages for a Margaret McAlister (variations) in Kilmory and in Irvine but none seem to match.
My feelings are that the Catherine/Margaret Lin(n) is the same person but there's no proof. If the Arran Heritage Museum have the kirk session records, there might be something in them that could clarify things.
I think that all we can say is that your Elisabeth's grandparents were most probably an Archibald McAlister and a Mary McKinnnon.
Gadget
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hi Gadget
well unless something turns up, before......................
I get some kind of response from The Museum in Arran!
it is becoming quite a hcallenge Catherine or Margaret!
thank you again.
Elaine
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Hello Elaine,
Its is confusing why Elizabeth Linn, mothers name is down on William Linn's, death certificate as Margaret McAlister.
On the other hand the births all say Catherine McAlister.
If you then go to their Daughters, Elizabeth, Mary, and Janet's, children they all have daughters named Catherine, and sons named William, and only your Elizabeth Linn, had a daughter named Margaret, but she was her last child, just before she died, 1877.
So i think this evidence certainly points to the mothers name being Catherine.
Regards,
Jonn.
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Blimey John.................
my head is in a spin..........
arranroots has pointed me in the direction of the museum in arran which has a geology department , but they only open on wednesdays..........
I will telephone them and ask them to help me.
but thank you again I was confused before, now even more.
gadget suggested William might have married margaret and catherine maybe they were the same person?
I will let you all know as soon as I find out!
Elaine
;-)
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Elaine
This is all fascinating. I hope we can get to the bottom of it but I'm convinced (gut feeling more than anything) that Catherine=Margaret
Keep us informed - we all like a good mystery.
Gadget
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hi guys
John Gadget Arranroots and Daval..................
I have been wondering about all these children with the same name, 2 Williams 2 Betties etc....
with just 2 years between could it just be a duplication/mistake?
I know I said I will talk to Arran on Wednesday but I was just looking over all the iformation I have and it seems a bit strange regarding the names to have 2 children with the same names and in a space of 2 years........................
just blabbing.......................................
;-)
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I'm just going back to SP/familysearch but I think that it was more infant deaths (high infant mortality in those days) and naming children with the same names rather than any errors in the register.
Gadget
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List from SP - Lin* from 1538-1854 in Kilmory. I might have missed some Lynns, etc.
Parents - William Lin(n) and Catherine McAlister
1818 - William
1821 - Mary
1823 - Janet
1826 - Betty
1828 - Mary
1831 - Betty
1833 - Archibald
1835 - Achibald
1837 - Alexander
1841 - William
Gadget
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hi Gadget
thank you again
I realise that there was high infant mortality in those days, but I think that its a bit weird that they called the new child with the same name as one who had died previously.
did they really do that Gadget?
cant wait til Wednesday to talk to Arran.
regards
Elain e
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Hi Elaine
Yes, it was very common to name children after deceased siblings. It puzzled me at first, when I thought my gt grandfather was older than he said he was - but then we found an ealier birth and death for a brother with the same name.
The traditional naming pattern was thus carried on to the next generation.
Say hi to the AHM folk for me!
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arranroots
thanx for the info
I hear what your saying but its still a little creepy....................................
of course I will mention your name when I speak with Arran;-)
regards
Elaine
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Hi Guys
well I spoke to Arran today and gave them all the info I had collected from you guys and I just got this email from the woman who is looking into my Elizabeth
From OPR (Old Parish Records) Kilmory: William Linn (native of Ireland) m; Catherine McAlister (Kilmory Parish) -11 October 1818. All the children were born at Bennecarrigan (the south end of Arran).
From MI (Monumental Inscriptions) Mary b: 28 Oct. 1821 died 30 April 1827 age 6 and Betty b: 1 June 1826 died 2 May 1827 age 1. They are buried in Kilmory Churchyard and the stone was raised by their father William Linn.
I see that William Linn and Catherine McAlister had a son William born/bapt 24 August 1841 at Bennecarrigan....which indicates that they were on Arran in 1841 (at least Catherine was) as the census in 1841 was taken in June.
The only other Elizabeth Linn I found on Arran was born in 1800, at Cladoch, Brodick (Kilbride Parish). Her parents were John Linn and Catherine Bannatyne.
but my head does not need another Elizabeth...............................lol
does that mean it might be the second one rather the first one?
let me know what you all think!
she said they can look into it further for me if I want, which I do want I just want to make sure I am going in the right direction!
I did say hi from you Arranroots!
regards
Elaine
:D
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Hi Elaine
I am still puzzled about Margaret - I wonder what the other children's marriage and death certs say?
I'm happy that the AHM folk were there today and able to help you. They're very special people!
:D
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Hi Elaine
I'm not sure that we're any further forward than what we've already found re the Catherine/Margaret conundrum :-\
I have assumed that your Elizabeth was the Betty b. 1831 , given the census evidence.
Regards
Gadget
(PS - AR - just wondering if the 1841 census info was written in wrongly and she was really Catherine :-\ )
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I agree Gadget - the 1800 one would be too early but maybe a namesake = aunt or something?
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hi guys
thanx for your input
I did think that Betty was my Elizabeth.
but I am afraid I dont understand the Catherine/Margaret conundrum as you say Gadget!
I agree about the Elizabeth from 1800 being to old but as you say might be an aunt or something.
so Arran can pursue the investigation for me ,which I would like them to do , but how do we/I know for sure its the right Elizabeth?
thanx again for all your help guys ;D
regards
Elaine
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Hi Elaine
This is indeed a muddled search
Key is your assertion that your great grandmother (?) has the middle name MILLER.
I've just re-read and you say this
Grandma - Eliz Linn STRACHAN
d/o John STRACHAN and Mary KERR
Mary KERR d/o John KERR and Elizabeth Miller LINN
Key finding here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,418288.msg2839534.html#msg2839534
If she has this middle name then your original finding that Eliz M LINN is the d/o Archibald/ Alexander LINN and Ann RICHIE leads to Elizabeth MILLER and it all makes sense.
If she doesn't have the middle name of MILLER then you need to tell us a lot more about what your certs say so that we can work out whether you're going in the right direction.
What certificates do you have and crucially, which ones fit with what you KNOW?
Elizabeth Linn STRACHAN was b c 1891, and Elizabeth Miller LINN c 1832 - just so we know where they fit in the timeline!
I'd be inclined to go back to basics and start with your grandma's details ...
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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hi Arranroots
seems I made a mistake
you are so right about going back ;
so my g/mothers marraige certificate it says;
they married at Townfoot Dreghorn on 28.1.1921
Elizabeth L Strachan ,Spinster aged 30 Waitress of Townfoot Dreghorn
there is a document somewhere at home in Scotland that says her middle name is Linn.
Parents John Strachan ,Coal Miner and Mary Kerr
Alexander Lewis Millar , Widower aged 30 Colliery Engineer of Greenwood Rows Dreghorn
Parents John Millar ,Colliery Engineer and Jane Lewis.
I have just found a birth certificate for Elizabeth Strachan says she was born 8.10.1890 @7.40pm Lorne Row Coylton Ayrshire, her parents stated as John Strachan Coal Miner and Mary Kerr Married in Irvine on 25.9.1879.
I have seen a document at my sisters home that says her name was Elizabeth Linn Strachan, but I do not have it at hand!
hope this helps you to help me ;)
thanx again
Elaine
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Arranroots and Gadget
just to let you know Arran geneology and museum are searchig Elizabeth Linn for m and should get back to me some time in January!
will keep you uo todate.
regards
Elaine
:D :D :D :D
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Hi Elaine
Not sure, from what I remember, that you can prove anything starting with Elizabeth LINN ...
:-\
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Hi Elaine
Not sure, from what I remember, that you can prove anything starting with Elizabeth LINN ...
:-\
hi Arranroots
they are going to start at the begining, I have sent them copies of all the marraige certificates I have and they will follow the route from there.
hopefully they will sort it out!
regards
Elaine
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Hi Elaine
Not sure that they can do much more than we've already done - don't hope for too much :-\
Gadget
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hi Gadget
yea of little faith..............................lol
I am expecting the moon..............
I can live in hope!
will let you know anyway.
regards
Elaine