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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: keb on Friday 20 November 09 13:02 GMT (UK)
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Emily Martha Holdstock married Stephen Tamkin 24th December 1864 at Tenterden Kent :) Her mother was possibly Harriet and father Edward. I am hoping to find more information about these people. Is there anyone out there who has come across these names?
Thank you
Katherine
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Hi katherine
Holdstock is not a name I am researching and not seen the name occure in tenderden but I saw some in nearby Wittersham. One married some one with the same name I was looking for. It was not mine as it turned out but it is the reason I remembered it.
Linda
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Hi Katherine, welcome to RootsChat :)
I've looked for Emily Martha in the PRs for St Michael, Tenterden, but she's not there.
I've got Holdstocks in my tree, from Wittersham.
Wittersham baptisms are on the IGI (Family Search) but Emily is not on there. I don't know how complete those records are.
Betty
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Hello,
Since posting the message re: Emily Martha Holdstock I have found the IGI record for her which mentions she was born "about 1844 of Tenterden District Kent". Another source has her born at Benenden Kent in C1841.
The marriage certificate says "The Parish Church" Tenterden and the vicars name is illegible. She is a spinster of full age and her father Edward Holdstock is a Shoemaker (which was not unusual for that area I believe). The witnesses were Henry Tamkin Verrall, (would also like to know who he was) and Eliza Tamkin, Stephens younger sister.
Emily Martha, (I also found another just Emily from the same timeframe) may have had siblings; namely James C1831, Thomas C1834, Elizabeth A. C1837 and Joseph C1840.
I read where there is/was a Holdstock reunion held every September in Tenterden. If anyone knows about such, would also be interested.
Katherine
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Hello. Yes there is a huge reunion every year. My aunt goes to it. We are Copley and out family derived from Holdstock. I have some info you may or may not have and some very old pictures too.
Stephen
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Hello. Yes there is a huge reunion every year. My aunt goes to it. We are Copley and out family derived from Holdstock. I have some info you may or may not have and some very old pictures too.
Stephen
Hello Stephen and it seems appropriate to say welcome to Rootschat,
I have been researching the Holdstock family for many years and found Harriets history via one of her descendants.. Went to the reunion in 2010 which was interesting. Would be interested in what history and pictures you have.
bkr
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If you would like to email me directly at (*)
I'll forward what I have on the holdstock here. My aunt has tons of info, I may have to eventually put you in touch with her.
Stephen.
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Hello,
I am also interested in the HOLDSTOCK family of Kent. My direct ancestor was Peggy HOLDSTOCK - I believe she was born in 1754, daughter of William and Elizabeth.
She married William RELF in 1775 and I am descended from their daughter Amy (Emma) RELF who married William FENNING and their son William (my GGGG grandfather) came to Australia.
Stephen would it be OK for me to send you an email?
I've found a DNA match with a man who is also descended from HOLDSTOCK (his ancestor Ann Holdstock married Henry Knowler in 1795) - we are trying to connect the dots. Wondering if anyone could point us in the right direction to do this? Our DNA connection might be with another family line completely, but with this common name we at least need to explore it.
Thank you!
Caroline
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Hello,
Please do email me. If I can help I will.
Stephen.
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My gt-gt-grandmother was Mary Ann Catherine Holdstock (b. 1840, Wittersham; d. 1906, Rye).
I gave up my Ancestry subscription, so cannot chase down answers to my question.
Was she a direct relation (sister/cousin/aunt) to Edward Holdstock (b. 1857, BMD gives Tenterden) who married Ann Weaver in q2 1880, again registered in Tenterden ?
Regards,
JMB
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It would appear that your Mary Ann Catherine Holdstock was baptised as an illegitimate child of Mary Ann Holdstock as per the following baptism at Tenterden,
1842 25-Sep Mary Ann Catherine Wenham d/o Mary Ann HOLDSTOCK Wittersham
There may well be a relationship with Edward Holdstock, I have set out his baptism (at Wittersham) below,
1857 Jul 04 HOLDSTOCK Edward s/o Samuel Elizabeth Wittersham Labourer
There is also this baptism at Wittersham (possibly the mother of MAC Holdstock)
1816 Feb 28 HOLDSTOCK Marianne d/o Charles Ann Wittersham Labourer
Maybe there is a relationship to be found and I shall look further.
Tony
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Tony,
Thanks for your help.
Am I correct in thinking that an illegitimate child could be given the father’s name, if the father actually acknowledged the child ? If so, then the father was (probably) a Wenham.
Anything more that you can discover about Edward H would be of interest.
Regards,
JMB
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Not sure what else you want to know about Edward Holdstock but, this is almost certainly the marriage of his parents at Wittersham,
1844 Oct 19 B HOLDSTOCK Samuel Ba F/a Wittersham Discharged soldier Thomas Labourer WHITWICK Elizabeth W F/a Wittersham John PAINE Tailor
Witnesses Joseph Holdstock Eliza Holdstock
Baptism of Edward's father Samuel,
1803 Jan 30 HOLDSTOCK Samuel s/o Thomas & Mary Wittersham
Baptism of Edward's mother at Appledore, from family Search only, needs to be confirmed,
1816 Aug 4 Elizabeth d/o John & Mary PAINE
Elizabeth Paine married Frederick Whitewick on 10 July 1837 at Appledore. Cannot find a burial or death record for Frederick at this time.
Let me know if you want to go further back on Edward's pedigree.
Tony
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Tony,
I was hoping that there might be an obvious link between Edward H and Mary Ann H.
Thanks for your info regarding his parentage, which will be helpful in putting things together.
Regards,
JMB
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JMB,
Here is a possible relationship pedigree linking Edward to Mary Ann Catherine. I will leave it to you to pull apart. All extracts are from Wittersham Parish unless otherwise stated. For information there was another Holstock (James) marriage at Godmersham in 1785 who could be a further brother born 1763, Wittersham?
1751 Jan 14 HOLDSTOCK Henry m’d GOODSALL Elizabeth at Orlestone.
1752 Jan 29 HOLDSTOCK Thomas s/o Henry Elizabeth Wittersham 01 Mar
1758 Jan 15 HOLDSTOCK William s/o Hen: Elizabeth Wittersham
1782 Feb 07 B HOLSTOCK Thomas Ba Wittersham WALLIS Mary Sp Wittersham Wm Walker William Holstock
1786 Feb 26 Holstock William (Godmersham) m’d COOK Alice (Chilham) at Godmersham
1803 Jan 30 HOLDSTOCK Samuel s/o Thomas Mary Wittersham
1790 Jan 31 HOLSTOCK Charles s/o William Alice Wittersham
1844 Oct 19 B HOLDSTOCK Samuel Ba F/a Wittersham Discharged soldier Thomas Labourer WHITWICK Elizabeth W F/a Wittersham John PAINE Tailor Joseph Holdstock Eliza Holdstock
1810 Dec 10 HOLSTOCK Charles m’d HOOK Ann (both otp) at Tenterden
1857 Jul 04 HOLDSTOCK Edward s/o Samuel Elizabeth Wittersham Labourer
1816 Feb 28 HOLDSTOCK Marianne d/o Charles Ann Wittersham Labourer
1842 25-Sep Mary Ann Catherine Wenham Mary Ann HOLDSTOCK Wittersham (baptism at Tenterden)
Best wishes,
Tony
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Hello Tony,
Absolutely brilliant !! Thanks for the effort of the look-ups AND typing it all out here.
I was going to take 2 aspirin and call you in the morning.......
However, it looks like the tree goes as below
Thomas (b. 1752) and William (b. 1758) are brothers,
Samuel (b. 1803) and Charles (b. 1790) are 1st cousins,
Edward (b. 1857) and Marianne (b. 1816) are 2nd cousins,
Edward's son Frank (b.1890) and Mary Ann Catherine Holdstock/Wenham (b. 1840) are 3rd cousins, so a relative, but not that close. Does that look correct to you ?
1844 Oct 19 B HOLDSTOCK Samuel Ba F/a Wittersham Discharged soldier Thomas Labourer WHITWICK Elizabeth W F/a Wittersham John PAINE Tailor Joseph Holdstock Eliza Holdstock
I read this as marriage of Samuel H, bachelor (father Thomas, a labourer) to Elizabeth Whitwick, widow of John Paine (a tailor), with Joseph H & Eliza H as the witnesses.
B ??? Holdstock Samuel and F/a ??? Wittersham----can you explain these abbreviations ?
Again, many thanks for all of your help.
Regards,
JMB
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The relationships look ok to me but, I am no expert on that; I have to get my chart out. Sadly that is still in a cardboard box (unpacked) in the garage. Moved 6 months back and still sorting out some things before putting an office back into order.
Elizabeth Whitwick was the widow of Frederick and the daughter of John Paine, Tailor.
See Appledore baptism as earlier post,
1816 Aug 4 Elizabeth d/o John & Mary PAINE
B means marriage by Banns. F/A means of full age i.e. over 21.
Hope this has answered all your questions,
Tony
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Tony,
Yes, of course the Widow Whitwick must have been married to Mr. Whitwick....not her father, so perhaps I will take the aspirin now !
Thanks for the Banns & Full Age also.
Regards,
JMB
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Hi.
Firstly, last year I had a Stroke, which making words is can be difficult. However! I have been working with Holdstock family over 30 years, about 1000 of them in Tree.
By chance, I noted Mary Ann Wenham Holdstock 25/4/1842, 9 children. Married 1/3/1868 in Rye to Thomas Ballard, who about I nothing! There are blanks in my H family. Mary Ann was, I think, was a 2 cousin.
Any help please or any help I could ofter to you.
Best wishes.
Barry C. Holdstock
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Hello Barry,
Welcome to RootsChat!
This just a brief note to tell you that I cannot respond fully now, but will, probably on Thursday.
Looking forward to exchanging info of Ballard’s/Holdstocks.
Regards,
JMB
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Barry,
Thomas Ballard (1830-81) b. Tenterden was my g-g-gfather, and was an agricultural labourer.
He married first Mary Hopper (1833-55) in Tenterden, q4, 1852.
They had 1 or 2 children, I believe, who I have not recorded.
He then married in 1868 Mary Ann Catherine Holdstock (1840-1906) in Rye, Sussex.
They had 8 children, from which line I descend.
My only knowledge of Mary AC Holdstock is her father (John) and the various relatives noted in this thread.
Visit,
www.paul-ballard.com for extensive research into the Ballard genealogy in the UK.
You will find Thomas and his ancestors there.
Regards,
JMB
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Hi.
Thanks for your reply, I will have a look for the Ballard name. There is a problem. When did a the name of a Holdstock became a Ballard, as c1840? I have seen names of Thomas "H" and a Henry of "B".
Best wishes.
Barry
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Hello Barry,
Any name change from Holdstock to Ballard must necessarily occur by marriage of a female H to a male B.
As indicated in my post above, Mary AC H married Thomas B in 1868.
That, as far as I know, is the first occurrence of the H to B name change.
Can you be more specific (dob/dom) regarding Thomas H and Henry B ?
Regards,
JMB
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Hi.
First name, I do not know yours, only JMB.
I will now to try to do answers again, but as I had already sent, I have had a Stroke, March 2017 and again in August. To cover words is a very difficult. (I am a church organist - that is much more easier than words!!)
Mary Ann C. W. Holdstock, no pa, ma - maybe Mariann, b. 25/4/1842, m. 1/3/1868 Rye. No death, or from. What I have so far, 5 children were born before Mary was married; Henry 1860 & Thomas 1861, both in Tenterden, but named Holdstock. In 1863, 1865 & 1868, three children no made to Ballard. I don't a name of Mary Hopper.
I have tried your www.paul-ballard.com - won't work, several times.
Best wishes.
Barry.
PS
Are you UK?
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Hello Barry,
I see now what you mean about the Holdstock —> Ballard switch of surname.
You will see that Mary Hopper d. 1855.
Mary AC Holdstock is listed on 1861 Census as servant or housekeeper ( cannot find my hard copy) to Thomas Ballard.
She apparently also kept his bed warm, because they had children,
Thomas, b. 1861,
Alice, b. 1864,
Emily, b. 1865, and these are all Holdstocks born out of wedlock.
I must have missed Henry H, b. 1860, Tenterden, will search for him later.
Mary AC H & Thomas B were married in 1868, so later children are all Ballards.
It seems that Paul Ballard has a new website,
http://paul-ballard.com/aboutme.htm
Regards,
John
USA