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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: gwendraith on Wednesday 25 November 09 21:51 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I hope this is the right place to post. I have several generations of watermen and lightermen listed in the census records of 1841 - 1861. The family name is Evans and the first one with the occupations (sometimes waterman sometimes lighterman) named on a census and the baptism records of all his children was Samuel Lowden Evans born about 1796. It's possible his father's name was also Samuel. At least two of Samuel Lowden Evans' sons have lightermen listed as their occupation. They were Samuel Evans born 1817 and George Thomas Evans born 1834. They mostly lived in Salisbury Street and West Lane Bermondsey. I don't suppose anyone has the details of bindings and licences from maybe the 1700s and 1800s and can provide me with a list of all the Evans? Many thanks, Holly :)
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gwendraith,
Welcome to the Watermen and Lightermen clann, :)
I have a long line of Watermen and Lightermen in my Bond family and have found others by Marriage.
Have'nt seen any Evans coming into the picture as yet but have found some helpfull people.
Some Watermen and Lightermen info I have found:
Regards Noel :)
The Ballad of the Last Lightermen
Well we listened to your stories
Of your days in Greenland Dock
Of barges full of rough goods
When you've been on the job-and-knock
Of pockets full of money
Earned for sitting on a barge
And how you are a race apart
From people by and large
Of hours you've spent in cafes and pubs
Of Woodbines, tea and toast
Of turned up jeans and hobnailed boots
Form guide and winning post
Of the barmaids you've pulled
If only in a dream
Of nights spent on the mucking
When tugs run out of steam
But like the arrowsmiths and wheelwright
Yours is a dying trade
And each day you grow more bitter
As your numbers slowly fade
For The Port of London's dying
Though she's been a grand old girl
And Father Thames no longer
Holds the shipping of the world
They're filling in your docks
Knocking down your wharves and pubs
They're selling all your barges
And scrapping all your tugs
In their luxury apartments
That command a river view
As they sip their dry Martinis
Do they ever think of you?
What do they know of Greenhithe
Blackwall Point and Wapping Stairs
As they talk of liquidation
And watch their stocks and shares
But still you'll have the last laugh
As they're hellbound for their sin
It'll be so full of Lightermen
The buggers won't get in.
Kellys Post Office London Directory 1853: List of Lightermen
Aldridge, Richard & Sons
Allen, Thomas-Chain Lightermen
Arms, William John
Barber, David
Barnard, Richard
Bartholomew,William
Bath, Stephen
Bells's and Taylor
Berridge, T.Worcester
Billingsley, William
Blinko, Mrs C.
Bond, John George
Bostock, John
Bradley, Philip
Bradley, William
Bridge, Sl.
Brown, William
Chantler, Edward
Chapman, Edward William
Chew, Robert
Christey, Alex
Christey, W
Clark, Mrs Mary Ann
Clippingdale Brothers
Cockshott, Mrs D.
Corder, Micah-Granary Keepers
Corsan, Charles-gunpowder
Corsan, Thomas-Gunpowder
Covington, James & Co
Creed, James-gunpowder
Dards, Charles Fk
Dards, George
Dawson, John
Dean, George
Dean, John W
Dennis, J
Dodd, Henry
Dolwin, William-Coal Merchants
Doo, George
Downey, John
Drake, John
Drew, A.
Ducas, Thomas
Dudin, Henry & Sons-Granary Keepers, Wharfingers
Dudin, J-Granary Keepers
Duggan, H.
Duggan, Mrs Louisa
Dunkin, Henry & John-Wharfingers, Corn Dealers
Easton, Thomas C.-Granary Keepers
Edmonds, Aug.Rt & Co
Elliott, Thomas
Elmore, Mrs Esther
Eltham, Matthew
Etheredge, William-Coal Merchants
Fallwell, George
Farlow, Frederick R.
Farmer, Charles F.
Field, Robert
Fifield, Joshua John
Finnis, Mrs Sarah
Fisher, William Alexander-Custom House Agents
Flower, Farnham Henry
Flower, G.J.
Fossett, William J.
Freeman, Joseph
Fuller, John & Sons
Fuller, William Henry
Gardiner, Thomas
Gardner, Thomas-Coal Merchants
Gaywood, John-Coal Merchants, Wharfingers
Gilbert, Mrs M.
Goodchild, John
Granger, Benjamin Bluett & Co.-Custom House Agents
Grey, H. jun.
Grey, James
Groves, Thomas & Son-Granary Keepers, Wharfingers
Hagon, Peter
Hamilton, John T.
Haslip, James
Hawkins, James J.
Hawkins, John
Hay, Charles & Son
Hedges, George
Hedges, William
Hemmings, G.W.
Higgs, J.
Hill, Benjamin
Hill, Benjamin G.
Hindes, Alex
Hinkley, Edmund E.
Hobbs, Fk.
Hopkins, I.I & W.
Hughes, William & Co.
Jacob, Benjamin
Jarvis, James
Jones, D.-Granary Keepers
Joyce, William A.-Custom House Agents
Judkins, Samuel jun.
Kent, James & Son
Kent, Edward
Kinchin, T.John
Kinchin, William
Knight, Joshua-Wharfingers, Granary Keepers
Knight, William Landell, W.W-Corn Dealers, Granary Keepers
Leverett, Henry
Love, John
Lucy, C. & Sons, Custom House Agents
Lucey, William
McClarens, Robinson
Martin, J.B.
Matthews, J.
Matthews, James
Maynard, George
Metcalfe, J.R.
Middlemist & Hammond-Custom House Agents
Moakes, Charles John-Coal Merchants
Moore, T.B.
Neal & Rolles-Wharfingers
Newell, J.&Son
Nisbett, G.
Noehmer, Albert H.-Granary Keepers
Nugent, William
Nutkins, George
Olyett, Edward
Page, S.&Son
Pass, Francis L.
Perkins & Broughton
Phillips, Grave & Phillips-Custom House Agents
Phillips, Mrs Mary Ann
Pillow, Thomas & Son
Pope, W. & Co-Custom House Agents
Rayment, C.
Robbins & Miller-Coal Merchants
Saunders, Charles
Savage, Thomas
Scott, Mrs S.
Shelbourne, William
Shutter, James
Smith, Son & Smith-Granary Keepers
Smith, David W.
Spencer, George Marks
Steel, James
Steel, John
Stevens, James
Still, William
Stollard, Henry Rd.
Strutton, Charles
Stutchbury, James & Sons-Custom House Agents
Stutchbury, C.
Stutchbury, Frederick
Swain, Benjamin
Syms, Thomas
Targett, John
Thomas, J.
Thompson, W.
Thompson, William T.
Tomlin, William & Nephew
Trott, Alfred
Tucker, Joseph
Turnley Brothers-Custom House Agents
Walker, Andrew
Waller & Fisher
Ward, George
Waters, R.
Wears, John J.
Webster, S.J.
Weed, Matthew
Whellock, Arthur & Son-Custom House Agents
Whipps, Arthur
White, Frederick-Chain Lightermen
White, Isaac A.
White, Rd.
Wilkinson & Dawson
Williams, Samuel
Wilson, J.
Wright, G.
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You will fined some information at this link, http://www.parishregister.com
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The Watermen and Lightermen's Company is a City Livery Company and you will find their records in Guildhall Library London. These include amongst many many others the apprentice bindings from 1655 to 1944. They are unfortunately not on-line
David
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Hope that this helps you
Evans Samuel Lowden 06/08/18012 Bermondsey Samuel Evans 10/02/1820
Source: The Company of Watermen & Lightermen of The River Thames
Bindings Index
1783 - 1823
by R.J Cottrell
Evans Samuel 10/05/1832 Bermondsey Samuel Lowden Evans 11/07/1839
Source: The Company of Watermen & Lightermen of The River Thames
Bindings Index
1823 - 1861
by R.J.Cottrell
I had a look at the 1742 -1783 & there is a Samuel Evans listed there at Rotherhith..is this place with the name familier?
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H
I am looking for information on member of the Corsan family, whom were variously listed as watermen or lighterman.
In particular, I have information that a Thomas Munday Corsan, b. c. 1770, d. 14 July 1816, living in East Smithfield, Whitechapel was a lighterman and waterman.
He was followed into the trade by at least one of his sons, John Corsan, b. 1803, Stepney area London.
I am not sure whether earlier generations were also involved in the trade. I ee a Thomas Corsan and Charles Corsan are listed in the Kellys Post Office Directory of 1853 as Lighterman and/or watermen.
Can anyone help with references to Corsans in the Bindings Index?
Many thanks
KESTON.
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In The Company of Watermen & Lightermen of The River Thames
Bindings Index 1742-1783
there are
John Corsan 23/09/1748 Wappin John Sheavell 12/02/1756
George Corson 30/07/1762 St Georges Middx James Corson 19/12/1776
James Corson 10/07/1752 Hermitage Robert Finlayson 14/09/1759
Thomas Corson 01/07/1757 Wappin John Corson 02/08/1764
Bindings Index 1783-1823
James Jeffreys Corsan 01/07/1819 Hermitage James Buxton 14/09/1826
John Corsan 13/02/1817 Hermitage Amelia Corsan 04/03/1824
Thomas Corsan 02/11/1809 Smithfield John Corsan 00/00/0000
Thomas Corsan 21/11/1793 St George East James Corsan 01/04/1802
Thomas Munday Corsan 30/11/1786 Wapping Thomas Corsan 16/01/1794
Bindings Index 1823-1861
Charles Corsan 19/08/1824 Aldgate John Jeffrey Corsan 13/10/1831
Charles Freeman Corsan 13/10/1853 Wapping John Corsan Dead
Henry Albert Corsan 08/11/1855 Rotherhithe Jacob Sinclair jr 14/05/1867
John James Corsan 14/10/1847 St George East John Corsan 00/00/0000
Thomas John Corsan 11/08/1853 Erith Henry Edward Cory 11/09/1860
William Jacob Corsan 22/06/1826 Wapping William Turtle 10/04/1834
William Thomas Corsan 13/06/1850 Shadwell William Jacob Corsan 11/03/1858
Bindings Index 1861-1884
Thomas William Corsan 12/02/1878 Erith Thomas John Corsan 13/02/1883
William Corsan 08/02/1881 Erith William Thomas Corsan 09/10/1984
Bindings Index 1884-1908
George Corsan 14Th Jan 1890 Erith Joseph Sayers 12th Feb 1895
George Stanley Corsan 11th Oct 1887 Southwark Ralph Nowell Hasler -------
Henry Corsan 12th March 1889Erith Thomas William Corsan 14th June 1898
Walter Richard Corsan 13th June 1893 Erith Thomas John Corsan 9th August 1898
William Frederick Corsan 8th Nov 1898 Erith Thomas William Corsan 9th Feb 1904
The Company of Watermen & Lightermen of The River Thames
Binding Dates & Affidavit birth proofs
1898-1949
Henry Frederick John Corsan Bound 8th Nov 1927 born 10th Sept 1913 Woolwich
William Frederick Corsan bound 8th Nov 1898 born 29th Dec 1881 Dartford
The Company of Watermen & Lightermen of The River Thames Admissions List for Pensioners
1794-1837
Elizabeth Corsan admitted 1st May 1821 from Bermondsey
The Company of Watermen & Lightermen of The River Thames
Reassignments 1688-1908
Henry Albert Corsan Bound 8th Nov 1855 Reassigned 8th Oct 1861 to Rachel Corsan
Thomas Corsan Bound 21st Nov 1793 Reassigned 5th May 1796 to Thomas Corsan
Thomas John Corsan Bound 11th August 1853 Reassigned 13th Jan 1859 to William Thomas Corsan
Thomas Munday Corsan Bound 30th Nov 1786 Reassigned 20th Jan 1791 to Richard Reeves
William Corsan Bound 8th Feb 1881 Reassigned 11th March 1890 to William Hoskins
William Jacob Corsan Bound 22nd June 1826 Reassigned 26th April 1827 to Jacob Mills
William Thomas Corsan Bound 13th June 1850 Reassigned to Rachel Corsan
John Jefferies Corson Bound 28th July 1784 Reassigned to Henry Hall
I hope that this assists you
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How interesting to see women on the list - might that be because they've carried on the business following breavement?
My particular interest is Mrs Mary Ann Clark - I'm sure she is the wife/widow of Thomas Clark (Lighterman) - both named in her uncle's will dated 1846 and proved in 1851. Mary Ann is, I believe, the daughter of Thomas Archbell, Mariner of Wapping Street, baptised on 16 March 1794 at St John, Wapping, and the niece of James Archbell, Ship's Chandler and Sailmaker, also of Wapping. The marriage appears to have taken place at St Giles, Camberwell on 4 May 1814 - no occupations or parents listed.
Any news of them in an Index would be much appreciated.
BumbleB
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Many thanks Marty or coming back to me so quickly.
I have some short questions.
Firstly, for the Binding Index, can you confirm, is the second date the date they received their licence.
Secondly, as the other poster has said, it is interesting to see the women listed. In particular, the Amelia Corsan listed beside John Corsan who was bound in 1817 is I think my gggg grandmother. The date that John was bound is directly after the death of Amelia's husband Thomas Munday, I would guess therefore that she took over the business / boat on his death? Is that a reasonable conjecture?
Finally, Amelia's daughter, also Amelia married a James Owen Rugg. I am wondering if he was also of the trade, given that her father and brothers were all involved, as was the James Buxton listed, who was the second husband of her mother. Is there anyway you could do a search for me on Rugg? James Owen was b. 1808, and d. 1841, both in Rotherhithe.
Many thanks for your help
KESTON.
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Hope that this helps you
Evans Samuel Lowden 06/08/18012 Bermondsey Samuel Evans 10/02/1820
Source: The Company of Watermen & Lightermen of The River Thames
Bindings Index
1783 - 1823
by R.J Cottrell
Evans Samuel 10/05/1832 Bermondsey Samuel Lowden Evans 11/07/1839
Source: The Company of Watermen & Lightermen of The River Thames
Bindings Index
1823 - 1861
by R.J.Cottrell
I had a look at the 1742 -1783 & there is a Samuel Evans listed there at Rotherhith..is this place with the name familier?
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Hi
I am new to all of this, so please forgive me,
Many of my ancestors were watermen I have been able to find their affidavits, however when I go back further I am meet with difficulty. The family myth goes that Thomas White ran away with the daughter of a coal merchant, I believe they lived in the Stepney, Shadwell area. Many of the relatives I have found have been both coal merchants and watermen, I was wondering if that is normally the case, and if anyone would be able to help me find any information on Thomas White, he would have been in the area in and around 1762-1771, as his children were born in Stepney around that time, any assistance would be very welcome.
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Hello, this is a forlorn hope but maybe someone can help. I am searching for information about Thomas Davis born c1800 and his wife Sophia nee Crane. Thomas seems to have died before 1841 and so too does his wife but they left a family of 5 boys behind. These children always refer to their father as having been a mariner and throughout the later history of the family a lot of the girls marry mariners. The family lived in and around Stepney and a lot of the family records are from St Dunstan's Stepney. It has been suggested to me that Thomas was a waterman but if so would he not be described as such and not 'mariner'. The later mariners in the family all seem to be at home on census nights which wouold indicate that they did not sail very far from home but surely if they really were watermen they would be proud to describe themselves so. What other sorts of mariners would there be in Stepney who mostly stayed near home? If any can offer any suggestions, I would be grateful. BVC
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I'm very sorry for the long delay in thanking people for their kind help with regards my watermen ancestors. I have had a lot of success after info left here and visited the Guildhall Library and looked through the Watermen records. I found my x3 great grandfather Samuel Lowden Evans' binding records, and his father's and also two sons my x2 great grandfather's George T Evans and yet another Samuel. I also discovered that x3ggf Samuel Lowden Evans's brother John Alexander Evans won the coveted Dogget's Coat and Badge race in 1807. Samuel L and George T both became water postmen employed by the post office. Samuel L died in 1845 and George T in 1909 at the grand age of 82.
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Does anyone know anything about records kept for the Tyneside watermen?
Our watermen in the 19thC were all ( 3 generations) called Alan West, of Byker.
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I'm also looking for a lighterman - John Cook Acton - according to london gazette he was discharged from debt in 1834 with an occupation of lighterman, address millwall poplar? earlier in his life he seems to have been a publican which seems an interesting change of direction!
Also, do the records reach as far as Folkestone? Looking for a William Gittins sailor variously from Folkestone and Wales?
Many thanks for any assistance.
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Hi
So many questions i hope someone could help,
back in 2008 you posted a load of Tuckey waterman. I am researching William Tuckey born in london in 1802 approx and listed in the 1841 census and in baptism records for his children as a waterman or lighterman.
in your original list one william tuckey didn't finish his apprenticeship so am i right in supposing that he wouldn't have had the right to call himself a waterman in census returns?
also the william tuckey who it might be was apprenticed in 1812 when he would have been 10 - 11 years would that be correct?
is there anywhere that the apprenticeship agreements can be looked at?
Thanks to all the fellow genealogists out there, you're always so helpful
jayg
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Hello someone!
I really don't know if what I'm doing is correct! I found a link to Watermen & Lightermen on Google and it brought me here.
I have come across a Waterman/Lighterman for the first time and am hoping someone can help.
John Martin appears on 1901
191 L Block, Borough Road, St George the Martyr, London RG13 366 158 31
John Martin 40 Head mar Waterman b.London
Ruth Martin 33 Wife mar b.London
John Martin 13 Son b.London
Annie Martin 11 Daur b.London
Ada Martin 9 Daur b.London
Phillip Martin 7 Son b.London
and 1911 (with son John also a Waterman/Lighterman)
26 King's Court, Suffolk, Southwark RG14 01787
John Martin 51 Head mar Waterman-lighterman - Steamer Co. b.Southwark
Ruth Martin 46 Wife married 25 years b.Southwark
John Martin 24 Son un Waterman & Lighterman - Steamer Co. b.Southwark
Annie Martin 21 Daur un b.Southwark
Ada Martin 19 Daur un b.Southwark
Phillip Martin 17 Son un Shopkeepers assistant - Grocers b.Southwark
Emily Martin 14 Daur Dressmaker apprentice b.Southwark
Florrie Martin 12 Daur b.Southwark
Rosina Martin 10 Daur b.Southwark
Edward Martin 7 Son b.Southwark
Carolina Martin 2 Daur b.Southwark
Although it says married I have yet to find any marriage, or I should have been able to get at least a father's name for him.
Can someone help me find some details about him (and possibly his son John, who was baptised John Charles at Lambeth holy Trinity on 22 July 1887) as Martin is quite a common surname-as I've found out-especially John!
If not specific details maybe where I can get further help?
Many thanks
Pat
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Hi. Can anyone here help me please?
I have a William Alfred Miller baptised 27/5/1804 Lambeth [son of William Henry and Sarah.] I have not been able to trace him since his baptism but quite a few people have him plugged into their tree as a lighterman in Lambeth.
I am not so sure that they are the same people
Is anyone able to search the apprenticeship records for a matching William Miller. I cannot go to the Guildhall library myself to search [In Australia]
I would be very grateful for any help.
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I am researching Essex Photographers and have a Edward Arthur Doo (b.Jul 1888 in Finsbury Park, Middlesex - d.16 Mar 1948 in Truro, Cornwall). He was a photographer in Southend and later owned the 'The Plume of Feathers, Scorrier, Cornwall (circa 1948).
He seems to have come from a family of Lightermen.
His father, George John Doo (b. abt 1852 in Blackfriars, London - d. 18 May 1908) was a Lighterman as was his father, George Doo (b. 1822 in Lewisham, Kent - d. 25 Apr 1888 in Lambeth) both at St Mary Overie Dock, Southwark (1871). I beleive his father, Henry Doo was a Boat Builder/Shipwright. Kellys Post Office London Directory 1853: List of Lightermen has a George Doo.
I wonder if anybody knows anything about them as Lightermen.
Any details welcome
Regards - Bobfilm :)
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I have a James Rugg in my family tree, but according to my information he was born 1819 , lived in Limehouse, married to Amelia Emily Rugg. He was described as a Coal Whipper. he was my gg grandfather. I would also like to know what happened to William Rugg who died in January 1869 in the River Thames.
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Hello,
I hope someone can help me make sense of the Binding records I've found for Robert SOPER at findmypast. He appears in two records as being bound 04 May 1733 at Twickenham. One (Source: Binding Records 1692-1949) shows Master Thomas Soper and a free date of 18 April 1760. The other (Source: Reassignments 1688-1908) shows Master William Wadbrook and that he was bound to 26 May 1737. I would assume that the second record is the original given the 1737 end date, but why is it in Reassignments? Re the other record, doesn't a free date of 1760 make for an awfully long apprenticeship?
Sorry if I am being dense here; I would appreciate any insight please!
thankyou
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Hi there,this is not really a reply,but a question regarding this topic.
My Day family has a long line of Watermen on the Thames.
Going back to 1805 Joseph Day's father is reported to be a "porter" on Joseph's Birth and christening record.I was surprised to see this occupation.
Does anyone know if a "porter" was related to the river?
Thxs
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It looks like there were specific Porters for all sorts of things at the docks...
http://historicaleye.com/other-features/top-of-the-docks.html
"Historian Ed Gilnert noted that below the stevedores, watermen and lightermen were the ‘interminable levels of skilled workers’, such as the ‘corn porters, deal porters, coopers, riggers, those who specialised in short-stay docks, tallymen, warehousemen, pilers, baulkers and blenders.’7 He continued: ‘At the bottom of the heap, and reviled by all the other waterside workers, were the ordinary dockers’.8 But here there was a further split between the regulars and the casuals, with the latter sub-dividing themselves into their own complex hierarchy."
There is probably a family connection to Joseph's master somewhere, however distant.
Chris
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Thxs Chris for your help.
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Does anyone know where I can buy/see the affidavits for Thames Watermen? The binding records are available on FindmyPast but I am hoping to find dates and places of baptism for watermen ancestors. Many thanks
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The affidavit birth proof books are held at Guildhall Library in London.
If you can't get there yourself, Trueflare offers a lookup service from their transcripts, at modest cost.
http://www.trueflaregenealogy.co.uk/trueflare.html
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Bookbox
Thanks for the info.
jackella
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Hi
I wonder if anyone can help me track down some details about Charles Gilbert and his family. As far as I can see see, Charles (1766-1827) lived in Jacob Street, Bermondsey, with his wife, Mary (1769-1831). At the various baptisms of their children at St Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, he was described as a waterman or lighterman.
I am not sure about the dates of birth for either Charles or Mary, as they are calculations based on burial records. Both appear to have been buried at St Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey.
I know very little about my 4x Great Grandparents Charles and Mary, so would be grateful for any information, not least about their baptisms and marriage. I don't even know Mary's maiden name.
I'm not sure what information is available, so I would be grateful for any help.
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I'm not sure what information is available, so I would be grateful for any help.
As regards the Watermen's records, the first step is to establish the date of his apprenticeship binding, which can be done on FindMyPast.
After that, the affidavit birth proof books are held at Guildhall Library in London. If you can't get there yourself, Trueflare offers a lookup service from their own transcripts, at modest cost.
http://www.trueflaregenealogy.co.uk/trueflare.html
“After a binding date has been established, it is possible to search the affidavit birth proof books, available from 1759 to date, and should reveal the date and place of birth or baptism, or sometimes both. This additional service ...”
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Hi I am very pleased to find this chat about watermen, lightermen
My Great grandfather came from a whole family of Lightermen who had their own boats on the Surrey docks Limehouse, Rotherhithe, Lambeth,Bermondsey,St Topry Horsleydown and the Prince Albert PH on Creek Wharf Poplar.
They were the Joyce family and there seems to be lots of them, they had a connection with the Hudson Bay trading company but I guess lots did as they were huge.
I have come to a stand still with one John Joyce
and really need a hand
Lighterman John Joyce born st Topry Horsleydown Surrey 1813
Married Hannah Gosling
children Eliza Charles, Ann
I think I have him bound by Henry Joyce in 1829 12th February, st Saviours
But it may just be another John Joyce
But nothing is known about John before his marriage to Hannah .
Can I order the full binding details online If I can find his father I can move on with my search.
Also, I would like to know more about the boats they had.
I have found it all very fascinating
I would appreciate any help
kind regards
Rosemary
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Lighterman John Joyce born st Topry Horsleydown Surrey 1813
The parish is St John Horsleydown ('Topry' looks like a mistranscription?).
Married Hannah Gosling
children Eliza Charles, Ann
I think I have him bound by Henry Joyce in 1829 12th February, st Saviours
But it may just be another John Joyce
The John JOYCE who married Hannah GOSLING in 1834 is unlikely to be the one who was bound to Henry JOYCE in 1829, because apprentices weren't normally allowed to marry whilst bound. If he completed a full apprenticeship of 7 years, this John JOYCE wouldn't have been freed until 1836.
If yours married in 1834 and was a fully licensed Thames lighterman (not all of them were), he will probably have been born a few years earlier.
Can I order the full binding details online If I can find his father I can move on with my search.
Transcripts of the binding records can be accessed on FindMyPast (with paid-for credits, or a subscription), or directly from Rob at Trueflare, who transcribed them in the first place (see the link I gave in reply #28 above). This is a starting-point, but these records will not necessarily name the father.
The original records of the Company of Watermen/Lightermen are at Guildhall Library, London, and may hold more information. Please see this link ...
http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/water.htm
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Hi Bookbox,
Thank you for looking for me .
I have John on the on the 1841 and the 1851 census as being born abt 1813 this has thrown a spanner in the works.
Ok, I originally had him born as 1812 which would mean only a year out which can happen depending on what time of year his birthday falls, am I clutching at straws.
The thing is I have him down as binding his nephew William in 1848 then his son, Charles in 1854 his son Charles was born 1839.
I have Charles being a substitute in the Doggetts Coat & Badge Competition in 1861.
Have I got it all wrong?
Regards Rosemary
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Under the circumstances, it does look likely to be the correct record. Do you have one of the children's birth certificates, showing their mother's maiden name, and confirming the 1834 marriage is the correct one?
If so, he may have been given permission to marry for some exceptional reason, or he may simply have broken the rules and would theoretically have been fined for it. In any event, he must have completed his full term of apprenticeship, and gained his freedom through the Company, in order to be able to take apprentices of his own.
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Yes they had three children Eliza 1837 duke street Lambeth
Charles 1839 Duke Street, Lambeth
Ann 1845.
They are not full, just church Banns so no Gosling named just John & Hannah
I was thinking maybe they had to get married so looking at children who died around that time.
Regards
Rosemary
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I suspect that what you have seen are church baptism records, not birth records.
You need to order a birth certificate for whichever of John and Hannah's children is your direct ancestral line. This will confirm the mother's maiden name and ensure that you have the right marriage.
The GRO births index can be searched free at http://www.freebmd.org.uk.
Then use the index reference to order a birth certificate online at http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content (£9.25 including worldwide postage). If you've not done this before and need more help, please ask.
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I have a James Rugg in my family tree, but according to my information he was born 1819 , lived in Limehouse, married to Amelia Emily Rugg. He was described as a Coal Whipper. he was my gg grandfather. I would also like to know what happened to William Rugg who died in January 1869 in the River Thames.
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I'm a bit confused, I have two records both concerning the same man.
First name(s)
REUBEN
Last name
Pressman
Master's first name(s)
Hannah
Master's last name
Redknap
Bound year
1825
Bound day
23
Bound month
Jun
Bound to year
1828
Bound to month
Dec
Date free
Where from notes
-
Source
Reassignments 1688-1908
Record set
Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010
Category
Education & work
Subcategory
Occupations
First name(s)
REUBEN
Last name
Pressman
Birth year
-
Master's first name(s)
Thomas
Master's last name
Argent
Bound year
1825
Bound day
23
Bound month
Jun
Place
-
Date free
09 Aug 1832
Where from notes
Poplar
Source
Binding Records 1692-1949
Record set
Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010
Category
Education & work
As you can see almost the same. I'm not sure exactly what 'reassignments' are ? I'm thinking he began his apprenticeship with Hannah but was taken over by Thomas :-\
He's bound to Hannah Redknap from 1825 to 1828 and then to Thomas Argent from 1825 to 1832
Common sense says that Hannah was unable to continue with the apprenticeship for some reason and Thomas took over. Would I be right in thinking that.
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Yes, it was common practice for an apprentice to be reassigned (or 'turned over') to another master. FindMyPast describes the Watermen's reassignment records thus ...
The Company of Watermen & Lightermen of the River Thames reassignments
1688-1908
A list of apprentices who were reassigned from one master to another
12,410 records, including information about both masters and apprentices.
The term of apprenticeship would be reckoned from the date of first binding (1825).
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Yes, it was common practice for an apprentice to be reassigned (or 'turned over') to another master. FindMyPast describes the Watermen's reassignment records thus ...
The Company of Watermen & Lightermen of the River Thames reassignments
1688-1908
A list of apprentices who were reassigned from one master to another
12,410 records, including information about both masters and apprentices.
The term of apprenticeship would be reckoned from the date of first binding (1825).
Doh! ::) Thank you very much Bookbox. I looked on FindMyPast but missed that piece of information
This convoluted family give me brain ache ::)
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I am keen to know when a certain lighterman, Charles Stanton, died. He was born on 6 June 1803, son of Thomas Stanton, a lighterman, and Martha, and was christened at St. Bene't, Paul's Wharf.
He was admitted to Greenwich Hospital School on 11 July 1814 (National Archives, ADM 73/350/49) and was later apprenticed on 6 January 1825 to Joseph Court, a lighterman, and became a freeman on 12 January 1832.
He married Elizabeth Court on 29 January 1827 at St. Botolph Aldgate, and the couple had three children, William, Rachel Ann, and Thomas christened at All Hallows, Barking, London, between 1827 and 1832. Elizabeth was buried there on 1 April 1838, aged 38. However, no burial for Charles has been found. The family lived in Lower Thames Street.
Quarterage books of the Company (L.M.A., 6401/5 and 6401/2) do not mention him after Lady Day 1834, and the word "Dead" has been inserted at some unknown time. Similarly, "Dead" appears in the Registers of Freemen (6307/2).
On the 1841 census, Rachel Ann Stanton, his daughter, aged 11, was described as an orphan at the Female Orphan Asylum in Lambeth (National Archives, HO 107/1057/10).
No probate record or intestacy grant has been found for either Charles or his wife, Elizabeth.
Any information about the death of Charles would be greatly appreciated.
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cant find anything definite but have you tried looking using variations of surname found 2 stents and a standen also tried using surrey Essex and kent as search areas but only London and Middlesex look promising , hope someone else can be more positive we lightermen descendants have a right to be proud of our forefathers .
regards
trevor
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Hi I am new here and struggling with posting in the right place.
I am trying to find any relatives from the Hoskins and Corsans families. Lighterman and waterman. I have been on findmypast and have had a wonderful time finding some of them. Went back to 1648
Whilst searching I have found places like this with people also searching for maybe the same family. Cfox site had a lady called Karen looking for same family, but her last post was many years ago. They were in Erith and Stepney. Thank you. Debbie