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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Pembrokeshire => Topic started by: alan o on Wednesday 30 December 09 17:03 GMT (UK)
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I am looking into an 'uncle' of my g-grandfather. He was known as 'Captain Jack' and was resident in Haverfordwest - St Davids or LLanrian are where the family came from. I have a possibility of him being a genetic uncle by the name of John Herbert Richards. There is always the possibility that he was a family friend and not a blood-relation. BMD give John H Richards a birth date of 1875. His nick nmae came about from his occasional sailing to Ireland (apparently not always paying any duty on anything he brought back!).
There is the possibility that he is living in Cathedral Close in 1906 (his name is on the sister's death certificate. Does anyone know if he was still there in 1911?
He was certainly still living in the area in the 1920s/early 30s as he was visiting by my g-grandfather and my grandfather was born in 1926 and remembers him being alive when he was a child.
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Does anyone know if he was still there in 1911?
The 1911 census is only available on a strictly pay per view basis and lookups are not allowed here - Rootschat policy.
Have you checked the 1881 census for him which is free to search at www.familysearch.org - it may show if there was any family connection
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John Richards is listed in 1881 as a child and my GG Grandmother's brother. I cannot find him (or his sister) in 1891 as his father and mother are dead by then and the family have dispersed. A possible candidate for his sister Elizabeth is on Ramsay Island in St David's Parish in 1901 (her son's birth certificate shows that she is there is 1897) but the age is wrong. His address is given in 1906 as Cathedral Sq and there is a John Richards of that name there in 1901 but the links are still a bit tenuous.
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Looking at your query, on the face of it was a very simple answer ~ or so I thought, just wrong again!!
Egbert Eira Richards was baptized at Llanrhian in 1886
George Hargrave Richards was baptized at Llanrhian in 1886
Stephen Thomas Victor Richards was baptized at Llanrhian in 1886
Experience shows that so many baptised at the same time and based on the fact that they are mature children by the time of their baptism that the family has only just arrived in the parish and that they are catching up with their religious requirements, Also ofcourse they needed to prove that they resided in the parish in case they needed poor relief in the future, and would not be transported back to another parish.
My other reaction to the ’81 was that this may be John’s 2nd mrge, but with 21 mrge’s for a John Richards in the Haverfordwest Reg District between 1847 and 1874, it is impossible to determine if and who his 1st mrge might have been.
I note the baptism of a John Richards at St David’s in 1827 and his probable mrge in 4th Qtr 1873 to Amy Phillips. I presume Amy wife of John Richards died 4th Qtr 1883 aged 39 yrs.
Have you been able to discount that John remarried 1884, 85.
Not sure if this help, hinders or just repeats what you know.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Many thanks. Those are the 3 younger boys from a second marraige. They were born in Llanrhian in 1877,78 and 81 so I am not sure why they were so slow to be christened. There were 2 eldr brothers John b1875 and Thomas b 1872.
His first wife was Jane Bateman who died in 1868. It was their youngest daughter (John's half-sister) Elizabeth who was my GG Grandmother.
Thank you for filling in some more details. I thought that Amy died in 4th Q 1886 so I will check my research. John dies in the 1880s (poss 1889) and the family disperse. The children of the second marraige end up in the workhouse or emigrate. They are all missing from the 1891 census but reappear in 1901.
Alan
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There is a second Amy Richards who dies in the Haverfordwest area but in Dec 1886 when she is 40. This is a better match as I beleieve that she was born in Whitchurch in 1847.
I don't know if the 1827 Christening record for John lists his parents but I believe that they were called Thomas and Ann.
thanks
Alan
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For your consideration ;
A Thomas Richard(no ‘s’) widow and Labourer of St Edrens mrd Anne Nicholas at St Davids 11 July 1822.
A Thomas Richard of St David’s mrd Anne Evan at Whitchurch 05 July 1832
A Thomas Richards a Farmer of Mathry mrd Ann Louisa Thomas at Llanrhian 07 Mar 1820
A Thomas Richards mrd Anne Gould at Fishguard 08 Dec 1833
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Number 3 for sure as her middle name was indeed Louisa according to their marraige records. The family came from Mathry.
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The family came from Mathry and lived at Torbant farm which is now a B&B . The 1851 census has her down as an Ann L Richards.
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The family came from Mathry and lived at Torbant farm
It just may be worth a look at the following ECC of St David's wills
William Richard of Marthry 1815/31
James Richards of Marthry 1823/43
Both are freely available on the NLoW website.
I just wonder if the mrge of William Richards to Mary Owen at Marthry in 1798 may be Thomas's parents.
Rgds
Oreilbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Thanks they are interesting. As John's father is Thomas so that could tie in well with the brother named in James' will. I now need to match my Thomas to the brothers. I don't think that he is William's son as he was born abt 1788.
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For future reference
1841 at Peicynrynydd Mathry
Thomas Richards 65 Ag Lab Yes
Mary Richards 65 – Yes
Stepin Mathry
James Richard 55 Farmer Yes
Ann Richard 55 – Yes
Farm House in the Village of Mathry
Henry(50) & Martha(35) Richards with 2 children
((In I presume another Farm house in village))
Thomas Richard 65 Farmer Yes
Living in same location as Thomas but unrelated
David Reynolds 25 Male Servant Yes
James Nicholas 15 Male Servant Yes
1841 Pen Pant St Davids
Thomas Richards 30 Ag Lab Yes
Ann Richards 30 – Yes
Mary Richards 08 – Yes
Pheby Richards 05 – Yes
Margaret Richards 03 – Yes
I pretty sure this is not yours however for your interest.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Hi there
The family of Thomas Richards and Ann Louisa Thomas is in my direct line. I have a handwritten tree from another researcher following this family and it shows:
The parents of Thomas were John Richards and Mary Williams. Mary Williams was the sister of Thomas Williams who adopted a daughter Mary and left her his part of the farm at Rhoslanog Fach in Mathry. He also left a small holding called Grapley to his nephew, Thomas Richards.
The family of John Richards (b 1765, Llanrhian) and Mary (b abt 1768, Llanrhian) looked like:
Thomas Richards b 7 Mar 1788; John Richards b abt 1790; Martha Richards b abt 1792. All children were born in Llanrhian. There may have been more but I am not sure.
The parents of John Richards were David Richards (b abt 1730) and Mary Reed (b 1738). This family looked like:
William Richards (b 1762); John Richards (b 1765); Mary Richards (b 1768); David Richards (b 1772).
Mary Reed was the daughter of William Reed and Anne Owen.
Cheers
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Hi there again
The family of John Richards, father of Egbert Ira, George Hargraves and Stephen Thomas is, indeed the second family for John.
My link to this family is Thomas Richards, John's older brother. It appears that both Thomas and John married sisters: Mary Bateman for Thomas and Anne Bateman for John.
John Richards, son of Thomas, married Anne Bateman, daughter of David Bateman, in Mathry Church on 29 May 1849. They had 8 children:
Mary Anne (b abt 1850); Lettice (b 1851); Dorothy (b 1854); David (b 1855); Jane (b 1858); William (b 1859); Sarah (b 1860); Elizabeth (b 1864). Anne died in Abercastle in 1869.
In 1871 John is in Abercastle listed as a widower with his two youngest daughters: Jane 12; Elizabeth 7.
John then appears to have married Amy Phillips in the Dec Q of 1873 and another 5 children appeared:
Thomas (b 1873); John Herbert (b 1875); George Hargreaves (b 1877); Stephen Thomas (b 1878); Egbert Ira (b 1881).
In 1891 Egbert appears as a pauper living in the St Thomas Workhouse. He emigrated to USA through New York on the SS Victorian in 1911 and was listed as a Horseman going to Maple Park in Dekalb County, Illinois. He returned to England in 1913 arriving in Liverpool from Quebec.
Looking through my notes, I have possible emigration records for Thomas, George and Stephen. John appears to have stayed in St Davids and there is a listing for a John Richards of the right age in Cross Square for both the 1901 and 1911 census.
Cheers
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Thanks. I believe Egbert must have gone abroad again as there is no death record for anyone of that name in the UK.
It is the John's first children that I am most interested in. Jane married a Pembrokehsire miner called Alfred owen and lived in Aberdare, Merthyr. She adopted her sister's illegitimate son George about 1897 and raised him with her family. He was told that his mother died when he was baby but the exact details are unclear but the only likely death record that I can find is in 1906. She died of 'paraplegia' and the death was reported by a brother John. She is supposedly buried on the North side of St David's cathedral in Pembrokeshire.
Thank you for the help.
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For your interest I note the following ;
Annie Florence Bateman baptised at Mathry in 1872
Ann Bateman baptised at Mathry 1837
Mary Beatrice Bateman baptised at Mathry in 1873
Mary Bateman baptised at Mathry 1846
David Bateman mrd Mary Williams at Mathry 02 Oct 1827.
David’s parents may be ;
Rowland Bateman who mrd Anne Reed at Mathry 1794
There appear to be a few interesting Bateman wills on the NLoW website.
Whilst Edbert Eira Richards was born in 1881 be was not baptised until 1886 at Llanrhian, in the same year as his brother George H, Martha Ann and Stephen Thomas Victor Richards.
Do you have a possible year of birth of Alfred Owen?
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Yes I do. he was born in 1859 in Little Newcastle, Pembrokeshire. His father was John Owen and mother wasa Harriet Miles. He married Jane Richards in Merthyr in 1883 and died there c.1930. He lived in Sion terrace in Aberdare. My grandfather remembers meeting him in about 1929.
I concur that Rowland was Ann's grandfather,
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Hi there
Jane Richards was born in the March Q of 1858 in Llanrhian, Pembroke. She married Alfred Owen, son of John Owen and Harriet Miles, on 11 December 1883. Their children were: John (b 1882 in Llanrhian); Harriet Ann (b 1889 in Aberdare); Eliza Gwen (b 1891 in Aberdare); David Alfred (b 1897 in Aberdare) and Edith Owen (b 1906 in Aberdare).
Alfred and his sons John and David worked as coal miners; Harriet was a school teacher; Lizzie was a dressmaker. George Owen is listed as a nephew in 1911 and is working as a coal miner's boy. Alfred was born in Little Newcastle. Jane Owen is still alive in 1911.
Jane is 12 and living with her widower father, John Richards and sister Elizabeth, in 1871 in Abercastle. It is difficult to say where Jane was in 1881 and Elizabeth appears to be listed as Eliza, a domestic servant, working for Thomas Watkins at Trelywyd in St Davids. In 1901 Elizabeth is listed as a farm caretaker on Ramsay Island.
Of the children of John Richards and Anne Bateman:
Mary Anne Richards appears to have married Daivd Jones of Llanfysul, Cardiganshire;
Lettice Richards - don't know;
Dorothy Richards appears to have married David Owen, son of John and Harriet and brother to Alfred;
David Richards - don't know;
William Richards - don't know;
Sarah Richards - died in 1861 at about 4mths old in Abercastle;
Elizabeth Richards - you already know about.
Anne died on 29 May 1869 in Abercastle.
John then married Amy Phillips. There are entries which MAY be Thomas, John Herbert, George Hargraves and Stephen Thomas in USA. Egbert also went, saw, and left. There is also an entry indicating that Egbert went to Australia:
Mr Egbert Richards, 35, departed Sydney, Australia arrived 4 March 1918 into Plymouth aboard the SS Borda, a P&O ship.
Cheers
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Thank you very much. That has filled in some gaps about the family in 1911.
I have George Owen's (actually George Mortimer Brown Richards) birth certificate showing that he was born on Ramsay Island. I cannot find him anywhere in 1901 - he is not shown with his mother or his aunt or any other relative.
His cousin John Owen also emigrated and according to my Grandfather was never heard from again with the exception of a crate of tinned peaches that was sent back to Aberdare! My grandfather remembers his uncle Dai (David born 1897) very well. I have never heard of an Edith Owen before and if she was Alfred's daughter then she might have died as a child.
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I have asked my grandfather and he remembered that Edith also became a schoolteacher so one more piece added to the puzzle.
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Does anyone know anything about Martha Ann Richards? Was she a daughter of John Richards and Amy Phillips?
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Not that I am aware of. She had 5 boys.
John's first wife did have a daughter Mary Ann in 1850.
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I think I can rule out Capt Jack as being John Richards. John is stated as 'blind' on the 1911 census but I am not sure whether this was only partial as he worked as a labourer. While 'Captain' Jack was described as a 'uncle' but this may not have been a blood relation.
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It appears that John Richards was indeed George's uncle who lived in St Davids and had a side line in smuggling to Eire. He was visited by George once a year until he died in 1952. He buried George's mother, his half sister in 1906 and was George's source about his mother.