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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Denbighshire => Wales => Denbighshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: crazycaz on Monday 04 January 10 14:41 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace the birth of my great great grandfather Thomas Morris who was born in Llangollen in late 1839 or early 1840. His parents were John (who was a gardener) and Mary Morris and he had siblings called John, Charles, Edward and Eleanor. I can find him in the 1841 census, but no birth registration. His sister Eleanor's christening is on the Mormon website but not Thomas's. By 1851 the family have moved to Tranmere. He married a Sarah Knox who came from Toxteth and also a Priscilla Cutler - but I can't find any marriage records. His daughter Sarah helped to bring me up as a child and it is so frustrating not to find anything about him!
Please can anyone help? many Thanks ::)
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Hi Crazycaz
Welcome to Rootschat :)
I've got the records that cover that period for Llangollen. They're not to hand but I'll go check them.
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
That would be great. Thanks!
:) crazycaz
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Hi
Got the dates mixed up - I don't have the later records. Only up to 1836. Sorry :-[
I'll PM one of the other members, Paul, who might well be able to get the info from the records office :)
Gadget
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Ta! :)
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Just to let you both know that I have deleted the duplicate post for this request - it was causing some confusion!
A ;)
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Hi crazycaz and welcome to RC :)
There are other baptisms on the IGI for Llangollen also to John and Mary Morris
Charles Bap 16 Oct 1828
Charles Bap 7 Nov 1829
Thomas bap 6 Oct 1833
Died 14 Nov 1835
Edward Bap 20 Nov 1835
maidmarion :)
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Yes they're all there but sadly we don't have any Thomas after the 1833 baptism and he died 1835 :(
I think Paul might be our best option :)
However, I'm wondering if they were not C of E and therefore Thomas's bapt would not appear as most of these non-conformist records finish in 1837 :-\
Gadget
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Hi Gadget :)
Just posted them incase crazycaz hadn't already got them. She only mentioned having Eleanor's baptism.
Hope Paul comes up trumps ;)
maidmarion
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. He married a Sarah Knox who came from Toxteth and also a Priscilla Cutler - but I can't find any marriage records.
I've just noticed this part of the posting. Sorry that I didn't see it earlier :-\ I've checked Free BMD and can't see them either. Do you have any census refs with them on? Also a rough date and place of birth for daughter Sarah.
Gadget
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In the 1851 census they are living in Albert Place, Tranmere. In the 1861 census he is down as Morries, living with his mother and brother (father seems to be working away as mother is listed as wife) in the bebington area - Queens Buildings, he now a cooper. In the 1871 census he is married to Sarah Knox and they have a daughter Mary E born in 1867 and my grt grandmother (nanny) Sarah who was born on 30th November 1870. By the 1881 census, he is married to Priscilla (Cutler) and living with her son Arthur who has taken the name Morris, Mary E and they have had a Lillie, also an Amy (who is actually Annie). My grandmother is living in Toxteth at this time with a Sarah Knox and her daughter who is listed as her aunt, but in fact is her grandmother (mother's mother). You can see how complicated this is!
I have traced the elder children in later census's, but after 1881, he seems to have disappeared. Priscilla died in 1885 of heart disease and her son Arthur died in 1887. My nanny Sarah never mentioned her family, but I know she hated the Welsh with a passion, and I think I getting to the reason for it>
Sorry to have gone on and on, but I thought it would help to have all the info.
Many thanks ! :)
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Hi again
I did find them on the 1871 and did some more searching for a marriage but found nothing.
There is no real evidence but it does look as if it was a common law marriage, at least with Sarah and possibly Priscilla (again no marriage registration found). Do you have birth certificates for his children?
I've heard from Paul who is going to look at the parish records.
Gadget
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I have a birth certificate for Sarah, plus Priscilla's death certificate. It could be that Sarah Knox was a catholic as her family came over from Ireland originally. I lost track of Mary E presumably because she married. The family seems to have splintered after Priscilla's death. I will try and track the other two girls in the 1891 census as they would have been too young to marry by then, perhaps they were living with relatives.
:)
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Is this him Bridget :)?
Llangollen Baptisms. Jan 21 1840.
Thomas s/o John & Mary Morris. Abode, Llangollen Fawr. Fathers Occ, Gardener.
Also.
July 23 1837. Sarah d/o John & Mary Morris.
Paul.
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Lovely, Paul :)
They were there in 1941!
Gadget
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This is brilliant! I have been trying for two years to find him! Were they non-conformists? I suppose births did not have to be compulsorily registered at that time. He could have been born in late 1839 or early 1840.
I am still trying to verify his death in Cheshire, I cannot find a cooper called Thomas Morris, but I have found a 'watercress man' living in the area in the 1901 census.
I have found Annie Morris (Thomas's daughter by Priscilla) in 1891 working as a servant, but still no sign of Lillie, but there could be several different spellings of her first name.
Thank you both so much, I was told that this site would be a help. I will tell my genealogy group to use it for their searches too.
;D