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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: LMD74 on Sunday 14 February 10 06:04 GMT (UK)
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Please excuse me as this is my first post.
I'm trying to find my great-grandmother's parents. I am not certain if she was born in Victoria or Tasmania. She was apparently raised by her Aunt, so I have no idea what happened to her mother.
The details I have so far are her marriage information:
Fanny Naomi HOPKINS, married Reginald Stewart BULL in Victoria, 1919 (registration number 4652).
They had 2 children: Leslie Reginald BULL and Maxwell Stewart BULL.
She died in Hobart, but her death records do not list her parents.
She is mentioned in "The Argus":
"Elizabeth Mary (Lily) Edwards died on 12th July 1934 - sister of Queenie & Frederick Edwards of Tas, Mel. Foam Street, Elwood. Beloved Aunt of Naomi (Mrs. R.S. Bull), Sutherland, Bernard & Genevieve Harrop."
Queenie is the Aunt that raised her in Tasmania. I am assuming therefore, that her mother's maiden name was EDWARDS. If only I knew where my great-grandmother was born, then I could access her birth certificate, whereby her father and mother would be listed (I hope) and I can then trace back their families. We never knew anything about this side of the family. Perhaps they weren't married? Perhaps she died in childbirth? Her nationality??? Why the secrecy??? No one knows. I'm trying to trace my history for my children, and finding this one to be very difficult. Now, I'm trying to find the truth out of respect for these family members who deserve to be honoured. I'd hate to think that my memory was covered up, whatever the reason.
This could prove to be interesting.
I would really appreciate some help, if anyone has access to records that I clearly cannot access.
Thank you so much for your help.
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These electoral roll entries may be helpful and I would assume are your family:
1903 and 1909 all at 16 Clarendon St, Malvern (Vic); (electoral rolls do not show relationships)
Queenie EDWARDS, whiteworker
Lily EDWARDS, photographer
Frederick EDWARDS, builder
Harry EDWRDS, brushmaker
Elizabeth EDWARDS, home duties
1919 at "Tasmal", 45 Foam St, Elwood
Elizabeth, home duties
Jack, brushmaker
Lily, home duties
Queenie, saleswoman
1924 and 1931 at 99 Foam St
Elizabeth Mary, home duties (only 1924, not in 1931)
Frederick Henry William, boot dealer
Lily, hd
Queenie, saleswoman - there is an entry for her at same address in 1936 also but there is another for a Queenie Alice Maude EDWARDS, saleswoman, at 31 Murphy St, Elsternwick which may be her.
There are some later entries, still in Melbourne though, which I can transcribe if you want.
Cheers, Judith
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Thank you so much Judith!
Now I'm a bit confused :) I thought Elizabeth Mary was Lily (due to the death notice). Shame they don't list relationships to know who are siblings and who are parents.
If you have more, I'd really appreciate it. I have no idea who her mother was, or father. The only information I have is from when her name was highlighted in the newspaper article, then listing her Aunt and siblings.
I am so appreciative of any assistance. I do know that my great-grandmother was listed in Denison TAS, but I'm not sure when she lived with her Aunt. Her husband died in 1947, so from that time onward, she was in Hobart until her death in 1978.
Thank you again,
Lisa.
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Do you know who Bernard and Genevieve Harrop are?
The way it is written suggests to me he MAY be a brother of Fanny :-\
Cheers
Annie
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Hi Annie,
From what I can gather, Bernard and Genevieve were her cousins. My Dad said she was an only child.
That makes me think that her mother died in childbirth perhaps, or afterwards? I didn't know if the name "Sutherland" in there was a Christian name or a surname... Bernard Edwards or Bernard Sutherland... or even Sutherland Edwards (there is an author H. Sutherland Edwards, but don't know that it's any relation).
Thanks for that.
Lisa.
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There is a Sutherland Mowat HARROP on the electoral rolls
1919 and 1922 Tasmania
1931 to 1949 Victoria
Cheers
Annie
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There is a tree on An***try for Sutherland Mowat HARROP
His parents are showing as John Charles HARROP and Amy Jane EDWARDS
married 1895 Reg#7097 (presume Tasmania?).
Amy Jane EDWARDS parents are Thomas EDWARDS and Elizabeth SMITH
no dates or POB
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Ah... ok, so Sutherland is Genevieve's brother.
Thank you.
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So Amy must be related to Elizabeth Edwards (and Queenie, plus the others)...
I might assume to track down Thomas Edwards and Elizabeth Smith as the parents of Fanny Naomi's mother??? Are there any records that list other children for this couple?
You've been a marvellous help already. Thank you again.
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No other siblings for Amy listed....sorry
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There is a tree on An***try for Sutherland Mowat HARROP
His parents are showing as John Charles HARROP and Amy Jane EDWARDS
married 1895 Reg#7097 (presume Tasmania?).
Just to tidy things up ;D
Marriage in Victoria
HARROP Jno Chas (born Dunolly)
EDWARDS Amy Jane (born Launceston)
Raylen
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That's good Raylen ;)
At least the odds are that Fanny was born in Tasmania too ;D
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Thank you!
Launceston? OK... No idea where Dunolly is, so off to google I go :)
If anyone can find information for other children of Thomas Edwards & Elizabeth Smith (Amy's parents), I think these are the parents of my great-great grandmother (who still remains nameless and elusive). By tracking her, I can then hopefully find who the HOPKINS father is of my g-gm.
Thank you so much for taking the time to look these things up. Very much appreciated.
Lisa.
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So the story goes, her mother (Edwards?) wanted to call her Frances, but her father (... HOPKINS) named her Fanny...
Most often she went by Naomi :)
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Well I'd definitely look for Frances too ;)
Depending on who registered the birth..........you know
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Good Idea.
Well, it was the father that registered the birth... so Fanny instead of Frances. I will still look though. Also looking under Naomi - that's why things are getting so confusing.
I thought it better to go to the grandparents (via the cousins) as the easier option.
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You have her marriage certificate registration number so you would be able to download that certificate immediately for about $17.50
It should have parent details on ( assuming she knew them herself) and age, place of birth.
These links give deatails of what you can expect to find on certificates for Victoria
· http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
· http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
Will have to wait till tomorrow for the other census entries - sorry :'(
Cheers, Judith
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That's fine Judith, thank you.
I have the certificate number, and paid for those details already. The details for Victoria didn't include her parents, only her husband. That's why I was at the dead-end.
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How do you know her father registered the birth since you don't have her birth cert???
I'm confused now ;)
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Anecdotal. My father mentioned it. She was rather unimpressed with her name, and she must have mentioned it either to her son(s) or my father in passing.
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It would be helpful if you could give information from her marriage certificate - where was the marriage? Are the columns for her parents completely blank? What is her age and place of birth?
Actually I'm wondering if you have downloaded the index details only?
Here's Naomi in Electoral rolls
1919
Naomi Fanny HOPKINS, home duties, Barrowshore, Milburn Avenue, Balaclava (subdivision, Orrong, Vic) No other HOPKINS at that address
1922
Fanny Naomi BULL (home duties) and Reginald Stewart BULL (engineer) at WilsCharles St, Moonah (Tas)
1928
Fanny Naomi BULL (home duties) and Reginald Stewart BULL (engineer) at Wilson St Zeehan (Tas)
1936 and 1937
Fanny Naomi and Reginald Stewart BULL at Rosebery (subdivision of Zeehan)
Cheers, Judith
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That's wonderful. Thank you so much.
It may well be possible that it was the index only. I'm very new to this.
Thank you again.
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The index will only give the small amount of detail that you have.
Have a read of the links I gave in an earlier reply, as Victorian certificates give very good information and are well worthwhile.
These links give details of what you can expect to find on certificates for Victoria
· http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
· http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
You have her marriage certificate registration number so you would be able to download that certificate immediately for about $17.50
It should have parent details on ( assuming she knew them herself) and age, place of birth.
This is the link to apply for a historical certificate
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Good luck with it - let us know the outcome :D
Now you're bitten by the genealogy bug you will be stuck with it LOL ;D 8)
Judith
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Done!!!
Reginald Stewart BULL, son of Capt. Percy William BULL & Bella Stewart Blair
Fanny Naomi HOPKINS, daughter of Joseph HOPKINS & Georgina May EDWARDS.
Thank you so very much for the advice!
Lisa.
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Thank you!
Launceston? OK... No idea where Dunolly is, so off to google I go :)
If anyone can find information for other children of Thomas Edwards & Elizabeth Smith (Amy's parents), I think these are the parents of my great-great grandmother (who still remains nameless and elusive). By tracking her, I can then hopefully find who the HOPKINS father is of my g-gm.
Thank you so much for taking the time to look these things up. Very much appreciated.
Lisa.
They did have a Naomi in 1864 mmmmmmn
JEnn
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Hooray, Lisa - where and when was she born? ? ? ?
Where was the marriage ? ? ? ?;D
This might help you find further back - or help other R'chatters to help you. There are a number of R'chatters who have informatin on discs which they are most generous in sharing - for example usually someone will give the registration numbers for Vic BMDs which saves the 99c lookup!
The wonderful people on this site have helped me so much and I've learnt so much from them.
Judith
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Here is her birth in Victoria
HOPKINS Fanny Naiomi born at South Yarra 1890 reg no 27671
Father Jos
Mother Georgina EDWARDS
Jenn
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Yay!
You're all so wonderful. Thank you!
Was there anything about Georgina or Joseph? I've been looking for random things on google so far, and nothing concrete. There are some census listings.
I'm looking more at Georgina now to see who her mother and father were. I'll look further tomorrow if time permits.
Thanks again.
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Georgina Mary Edwards aged 25 married Joseph Hopkins aged 29 on the 6/1/1888 at Launceston rgd 37 reg 682/1888
there is an unnamed femalel child born to Thomas EDWARDS and Elizabeth SMITH 4/7/1862 in TAS 5366/1862
which is no doubt her.
Jenn
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Thanks Jenn, you're wonderful!
Thomas & Elizabeth also had Amy (the mother of the Harrop cousins listed in early posts).
I'll jump on the TAS online archives for Thomas and Elizabeth.
I'm wondering if Joseph HOPKINS was related to the HOPKINS of Tasmania and also of Victoria?
I've got a lot of leads now. Thank you so much. This has been wonderful.
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Do you mean Henry HOPKINS (1787-1870) and family - emigrated 1822? I have a marriage connection with that family and have some information so let me know.
Judith
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Hi Judith,
I'm not sure yet. I haven't been able to get any more information.
I actually have 1st cousins that are Hopkins too... it may well be that my Aunt married a distant cousin............
I haven't been able to find any more information on Joseph Hopkins, so I can't make any links yet.
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Have you any idea where and when Joseph and Georgina Mary Hopkins died?
You could if you were able to download Fanny's birth certifcate, it will tell you where and when her parents were born
Jenn
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Unfortunately no.
If I were in a position to, I would; however at the moment I can't.
I'll have to wait and then work back from there.
Thanks Jenn.
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These electoral roll entries may be helpful and I would assume are your family:
1903 and 1909 all at 16 Clarendon St, Malvern (Vic); (electoral rolls do not show relationships)
Queenie EDWARDS, whiteworker
Lily EDWARDS, photographer
Frederick EDWARDS, builder
Harry EDWRDS, brushmaker
Elizabeth EDWARDS, home duties
1919 at "Tasmal", 45 Foam St, Elwood
Elizabeth, home duties
Jack, brushmaker
Lily, home duties
Queenie, saleswoman
1924 and 1931 at 99 Foam St
Elizabeth Mary, home duties (only 1924, not in 1931)
Frederick Henry William, boot dealer
Lily, hd
Queenie, saleswoman - there is an entry for her at same address in 1936 also but there is another for a Queenie Alice Maude EDWARDS, saleswoman, at 31 Murphy St, Elsternwick which may be her.
There are some later entries, still in Melbourne though, which I can transcribe if you want.
Cheers, Judith
Just to add in
there is also a NAOMI HOPKINS 1914 Electoral Roll
at "Tasmal", 45 Foam St, Elwood she is a saleswoman
living at
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Unfortunately no.
If I were in a position to, I would; however at the moment I can't.
I'll have to wait and then work back from there.
Thanks Jenn.
Wonder what happened to her parents, there does not seem to be any other children born to them.
There is another Georgina Mary Hopkinson the electoral roll with a John Robert Hopkins. She died in 1954 aged 82 so giving her a bith year on 1872 different parents also.
Jenn
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I found Joseph HOPKINS born 1859 and Georgina Mary EDWARDS born in 1863 (married 1888) on the Tasmanian Pioneer archives. No parents listed for either though.
Looking at the dates for the Thomas EDWARDS and Elizabeth SMITH in the Tasmanian Pioneer Index, this lists 2 unnamed females. I can match the dates of Amy Jane EDWARDS to 1873 and 1862 lists another unnamed female, but perhaps it was 1863?
No parents listed for Joseph HOPKINS.
Frustrating.
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By her cremation details
BULL Fanny Naomi aged 86 dated of Cremation 14-Jun-1977
she was born 1861c
Do you have details for the BULL family?
JEnn
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Thank you Jenn,
I have details for this.
I also have a lot of details for the Bull side:
Reginald Stewart BULL
Capt. Percy William BULL (father) & Isabella (Bella) Stewart BLAIR
Marriage 1888 Registration Number 2476
Percy was born in Geelong 1857
Bella was listed as born in Scotland.
Percy's parents:
William Henry BULL* & Caroline MUNRO
William BULL's parents were:
Henry BULL & Mary HATTON
He died aged 47 in 1874.
Henry BULL died at sea at age 50 aboard the "Glarus" 1870.
He was born in TONSBERG, NORWAY; the son of Lars BULL.
Registration of Death: 1870, RGN 21.
Any information on Lars BULL of Tonsberg, Norway greatly appreciated.
I haven't a lot of information on Isabella (Bella) Stewart Blair.
Interesting historical research in any case.
Thanks again for your input.
Regards,
Lisa.
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BULL Isbla Stewart died 1953 aged 89 at East Malvern reg no 713
Father Blair Alex Thomson Mother Eliz PENNY-COOK
Most likely a sister
DREDGE Catherine Pannycook died 1939 aged 74 reg no 10433
Father Blair Alex Thomson Mother Eliz PENNYCOOK
here is her death notice
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11231586?searchTerm=Dredge+Catherine
DREDGE Chas Alf born Brunswick married in 1892 reg no 6452
BLAIR Cath Pennycook born Edinburough
Children
Bella Gladys DREDGE born 1899 Essendon reg no 10217
Laurence Alfrd DREDGE born 1894 at South Yarra reg no 15651
DREDGE Chas Alf died 1911 aged 54 at East Melbourne reg no 2161
Father Theophilus Dredge mother Louisa Wilkinson
Jenn
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The BLAIR Family arrived in March of 1883 into Victoria on The IBERIA
BLAIR ALEX T MR aged 48
BLAIR CATHERINE P MISS aged 16
BLAIR ELIZTH F P MISS aged 12
BLAIR ISABELLA S MISS aged 18
BLAIR MARY aged 20
BLAIR ROBERT P MASTER aged 10
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23
Jenn
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Jenn,
Thank you!!! This is fantastic.
I think there was a mistake with the 'BULL' side... I read a will that had William John BULL and not William Henry. I have no idea if Henry Bull (son of Lars) was related now. I can't find any Henry Bull from Norway anyway, only individuals with the name Henryk. Totally different naming protocols with patronymics there.
Back to the drawing-board.
How much are these CD's that I've heard of that have all the records on them?
Thank you again for your help.
I might need to make another new topic for a different family member that I've come across. I'm not sure how easy it is to get genealogical information on India...
Thanks again.
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Hi Lisa
I have lots of info on your family tree. I just joined here and can't see how to email or PM so if you know how to please contact me.
For starters:
Percy William Bull 1857 - 1930 Your GG Grandfather
father William John Bull 1826 - 1874 Your GGG Grandfather
father Henry William Bull 1790 - 1853 Your GGGG Grandfather
Mal
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Hi Mal, and welcome to Rootschat,
I see that LMD74 has not been active on R'chat since 2012 (you can see that by clicking on her 'name' on the left hand side of the post). She should receive an email notifying her of your new post on this thread if she still has the same email address.
R'chat doesn't allow a new member to use the Personal Message system until s/he has made 3 posts so you need to do another one to use the PMs.
Best wishes, Judith
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Hi Judith
I saw a post from 12/2 and didn't notice the year.
So this makes 3 posts.
Thanks Mal