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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Completed Look ups => Topic started by: silicondale on Saturday 19 March 05 17:54 GMT (UK)
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The only firm information I have for him is from 1881 census - when he's living in Brighton: RG11/1091/63 p.29. at 162 North Street, Brighton, The Palace sub-reg district. Name entered as Henly not Henley (though rest of family are Henley). He was a tailor.
Wife Esther born 1823 - but no other information - and could have married either before or after move to Brighton. Eldest child Esther, born 1842 in Brighton.
Any information about him in Bedfordshire, before the move to Brighton, would be appreciated !
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sorry, should have added, that he's also in Brighton in the 1871 census as Henley, so Henly was probably just a transcription error.
I think the 1841 census will be the crucial one ! If he's not in Bedfordshire then, he must already have moved to Brighton.
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Hi silicondale
There is a Jn Henley Born Nov 16 1809 Bap Dec 9 1809 to a William and Ann Henley?
Cheers Sandy
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Many thanks. That's entirely possible. He gave his age in the 1881 census as 70 - but of course that's just a convenient round number !
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Looks as though John moved prior to the 1841 census. I did not find him in 1841 for Woburn.......however the film is really dark in places so I might have missed him. Other Henleys as follows just in case they help.
1841 census
Woburn
Bedford Street.
John Henley, 55, lab, born in County.
Edward Webb, 14, born in County.
Thomas Henley, 60, a/lab, born in County
Elizabeth Henley, 55, born in County
Park Street
George Henley, 48, lab, born in County,
Ann Henley, 50, born in County,
George Henley, 15, born in County,
Thomas Henley, 10, born in County,
Emma Henley, 7, born in County,
William Henley, 5, born in County,
Abbey House
Sarah Henley, 18, FS, born in County
Sarah amongst others of course.
Waterfall
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Hi, Waterfall -
Many thanks for that - none of the names seem to fit with any other information that I have for now, but I'm sure at least some are related !
Things moving on now - I have John Henley's marriage certificate (Brighton, 1838) which shows his father as William Henley, upholsterer though unfortunately there's no indication of his father's current address, whether Woburn or Brighton. I assume Woburn, as I can find no trace of any suitable William in Sussex.
There are too many of them in Bedfordshire, though. The prime candidate was born 1782 (parents Andrew Henley and Elizabeth Cheval), married Ann White in 1805, and had two sons John in 1809 and William in 1810. There are a couple of other possibles according to the IGI data, born in 1775 (parents Thomas and Hannah) and 1779 (parents William and Elizabeth) but both spelled Henly without the second e.
I have emailed Woburn Abbey to see if they have any records of a William Henley, upholsterer, doing any work there (as the most likely large local client). However, would really appreciate any suggestions on how to positively identify which is the right William.
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Just a thought........is William in Brighton? I have found sometimes tracking down siblings points one in the right direction. Did have a look at the wills index for Beds and none for Henley in Woburn.
Waterfall
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Thanks for the suggestion, Waterfall, but I'd already checked this one. The only William Henley death anywhere close is aged 67 in 1874 - around 20 years too young. Could indeed be John's brother but certainly not his father. Complicated of course by the fact that Sussex had a lot of Henleys already, before John moved there ! If it is the brother, then IGI gives a possible marriage in Brighton in 1833 - which I could chase through the Sussex marriage index. But no trace of the father's death anywhere yet!
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Full list of baps/marriages from Woburn P/R.
BAPS
25/4/1652 Ann d Adam Henly
24/8/1755 Jas s Andrew/Mary Henley
7/4/1772 9/5/1772 Jos s Thos/Hannah Henly
22/7/1772 8/8/1772 Sarah d Wm/Eliz Henly
10/1/1774 3/4/1774 Jn s Rich/Jane Henly
3/2/1775 3/3/1775 Jn s Andrew/Eliz Henly
26/11/1775 25/12/1775 Wm s Thos/Hannah Henly
26/11/1775 3/12/1775 Jenny d Wm/Eliz Henley
25/11/1775 25/12/1775 Wm s Thos/Hannah Henly
12/10/1777 21/12/1777 Cath d Thos/Hannah Henly
9/6/1778 21/6/1778 Mary d Andrew/Eliz Henly
28/7/1778 16/8/1778 Thos s Jas/Ann Henley
26/3/1779 28/3/1779 Wm s Wm/Eliz Henly
28/7/1781 4/8/1781 Wm s Andrew/Eliz Henley
bap 2/11/1782 Jas s Wm/Eliz Henley
12/10/1785 13/11/1785 Rich s Andrew/Eliz Henley
31/1/1790 30/1/1791 Jos s Andrew/Eliz Henley
28/10/1792 10/2/1793 Geo s Wm/Sarah Henley
3/1/1795 1/3/1795 Geo s Wm/Sarah Henley
13/7/1796 11/9/1796 Jos s Jn/Eliz Henley
17/8/1797 29/10/1797 Thos s Wm/Sarah Henley
29/12/1797 18/2/1798 Wm s Jn/Eliz Henley
10/2/1800 4/5/1800 Jn s Jn/Eliz Henley
28/4/1802 8/8/1802 Ann d Jn/Eliz Henley
4/10/1804 28/10/1804 Mary d Jn/Eliz Henley
16/11/1809 9/12/1809 Jn s Wm/Ann Henley
16/11/1810 30/6/1810 Wm Ralph s Wm/Ann Henley
MARRIAGES
12/12/1651 Adam Hennly m Ann Hakins(Hawkins in BT)
21/10/1772 Andrew Henley m Eliz Cheval
17/10/1777 Jas Henley m Ann Pye
8/8/1787 Thos Henly(Caddington, Hts) m Ann Roberts
27/3/1785 Jn Morgan m Martha Henley
24/9/1788 Thos Green(Billington) m Hester Henley(lic)
24/7/1792 Wm Henley m Sarah Dennis
29/10/1792 Jas Henley m Susan Marsh
11/5/1796 Jn Henley m Eliz Langford
2/4/1804 Thos Henley m Sarah Burross(Wavenden)
10/12/1805 Wm Henley m Ann White
5/10/1812 Geo Henley m Ann Emmerton
19/10/1812 Thos Henley m Eliz Scott
Spellings as per P/R. Burials to follow, Waterfall
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Wow! :D :D :D
The burials will be even more interesting as the IGI records usually don't seem to include these.
But looks like there's no Andrew born in Woburn, so he had to come from elsewhere! However, looks like either there was a suddeen influx of Henleys in about 1750 - or the records are truncated. There's also Thomas, William, Richard & James, without any birth records.
Since the original posting have pieced together most of the family from John's father William onwards. The dead-end seems to be Andrew, William's father (assuming we have the right William - and it's just a matter of probabilities now - this one seems to fit best, though could also be William son of Wm & Eliz or even Wm son of Thos and Hannah).
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Missed a marriage, think it's the only thing I did.
MARRIAGE
12/10/1772 Wm Henley m Eliz Cooley
BURIALS
20/8/1772 Mary d Thos/Hannah Henly
4/5/1774 Rich Henly and Sally his daughter
7/5/1774 Jn s Rich and Jane Henly
17/5/1776 Wm s Thos and Hannah Henly
13/9/1780 Sarah d Wm and Eliz Henley
24/3/1781 Jenny d Wm and Eliz Henley
16/8/1782 Mary Henley, widow
19/5/1784 Ann w Jas Henley
29/8/1785 Wm s Wm and Eliz Henley
3/6/1789 Eliz w Wm Henley
24/3/1793 Jn s Wm and Sarah Henley
5/6/1794 Geo s Wm and Sarah Henley
21/9/1794 Eliz w Andrew Henley
11/12/1796 Jos s Jn and Eliz Henley
20/8/1799 Ann w Jn Henley
Again up to 1812 only. Woburn burials is quite good inasmuch it states who they are........so many do not.........ages not given until 1813 which you probably know. I know I gave you a couple of burials after 1812 but will go thru again sometime soon and give you the rest.......baps and marriages as well up to 1840 and maybe they will tie in with the census. 1772 is the first burial so looks as though Adam boned off somewhere.
Hopefully you will be able to tie some up.
Waterfall
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Many thanks, waterfall - that should help to tie up some loose ends ! Just one question though. The bulk of the records start in 1772 for births, marriages, and deaths. Presumably this means that the pre-1772 records are missing or very incomplete ? The alternative explanation that there was a mass migration of several Henley families into Woburn in 1772 seems a bit far-fetched ;)
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Not missing or incomplete.......entries are from P/R and Bt's. So looks as though they emigrated to neighbouring parishes.......will look at IGI and see if I pick up any
Susan
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Thanks, Susan - well that's very odd then ! Maybe they all started spelling their names differently in 1772 - but the IGI search allows for variations in spelling. I ran searches for Andrew, William, and Richard but almost a complete blank in Beds and Bucks, though plenty of entries for Lancs, Shropshire, Hampshire etc. Maybe I'm not doing the search right - I'm using familysearch.org - first name, last name, +/-20-years around the target dates, 'all' events selected, exact spelling box unchecked.. Did find a "Rd Henley" married at Little Woolstone, Bucks in 1759, but wife Martha doesn't match the Woburn Richard and Jane. A William Henley 1769 christening at Eaton Bray can't be the William whose wife Elizabeth gave birth to Sarah in 1772.
One thought. Not sure when there was major expansion work at Woburn Abbey, but perhaps there was a sudden influx of people to Woburn from elsewhere, brought in by the Duke of Bedford to work on his estates. I'll have to look at the history of Woburn Abbey !
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have had a quick look at IGI.........banged in Adam as he the first in Woburn, came up with baps for an Adam son of Adam and Ann 1654 onwards at Mursley. Not saying that this is the Adam from Woburn......needs a lot more than that.!! However Mursley not that far away as the crow flies and they travelled far more than one would expect. Woburn has several Bucks parishes on it's borders as you probably know. Brickhills being one's which might well hold the births of the ones you are after. The Brickhills are not on the IGI for some reason......presumably the vicar would not allow the registers to be filmed. Yes......there are entries relating to the Brickhills but these have been put on by someone who has traced their roots and the info put on the IGI. I have had reason to check Brickhills P/R......thats how I know. Nothing on the IGI for all I wanted.Hence one has to check all entries on the IGI with the parish records. In my own tree there are entries on the IGI which are completely at odds with the actual entry in the P/R.!! Maybe someone could do a look up in the Brickhill P/R's for you.......worth a try. The burials after 1813 can be helpful as to when a person was born......there again age can be a bit out.
Aplogies if you are aware of all this, will do Woburn for you soon not that it will help you much but is always worth looking at all I think, Bye Susan
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Here are the baps etc from 1813. May have missed some as register indecipherable or indistinct in places.
BAPTISM
5/2/1815 Mary Ann d Geo/Ann Henley Woburn Labourer?
12/8/1821 Sarah " " Labourer
10/11/1816 Susannah " " "
28/11/1816 bn July 1 1812 Geo Gale s Wm/Maria Henley
25/12/1818 Jn Francis s Geo/Ann Henley Woburn Labourer
19/11/1822 Mary? Jn/Ann Henley Woburn Labourer
9/8/1823 Wm " " "
9/1/1825 Ann " " "
21/8/1825 bn May 28 1825 Geo Geo/Ann Henley Woburn Lab
11/2/1827 Wm Jn/Ann Henley Woburn Lab
2/9/1827 bn 3/6/1822 Joseph Geo/Ann Henley Woburn Lab
7/2/1829 bn 28/15? Jn Jn/Ann Henley Woburn Gardener
5/7/1829 bn 12 ay 5? Thos Geo/Ann Henley Woburn Abbey Watchman
13/2/1831 bn 22/1/1831 Martha Elizb Geo/Ann Henley Woburn
Watchman to The Duke of Bedford
14/8/1831 Eli Wm/Sarah Henley Woburn Horsekeeper
23/6/1833 Feb 7 Emma Priscilla Geo/Ann Henley Woburn Watchman
15/2/1835 bn 13/11/1834 Wm Geo/Ann Henley Woburn Watchman
21/2/1836 bn 14/2/1836 Elizb William/blank Henley Woburn Horsekeeper
14/6/1838 bn ? Andrew Jn/Ann Henley Woburn Lab
28/3/1841 Eli " " "
BURIALS
15/11/1815 Susannah Henley Woburn 61yrs
5/6/1818 Ann Henley " 16 yrs
3/11/1818 Jn Henley " 83 yrs
3/3/1822 Sarah Henley " 60 yrs
16/1/1823 Wm Henley " 74 yrs
4/1/1824 Andrew Henley " 77 yrs
18/1/1824 Thos Henley " 85 yrs
11/4/1824 Elizb Henley " 23 yrs
22/10/1824 Wm Henley " 15 ms
25/3/1827 Hannah Henley " 59 yrs
5/8/1827 Eli Samuel Henley " 20 mo
13/12 1828 Elizb Henley " 3 weeks
27/4/1830 Jos Henley " 29 yrs
27/11/1831 Wm Henley " 4 yrs
6/12/1831 Jethro Henley " 3 yr 11 mths
7/12/1831 Ely Henley " 6 mths
7/5/1833 Martha Elizb Henley " 2 yrs 4 mths
14/2/1834 Georgiana Henley " 9 days
22/2/1838 Elizb Henley " 8 days
16/10/1839 Elizb? Henley " 75 yrs
23/7/1840 died 19/7/1840 Ann Henley Woburn 15 yrs
11/10/1840 died 5/10/1840 Jn Francis Henley " 21 yrs
20/3/1842 died 15/3/1842 Eli Henley " 1 yr
20/3/1842 died 17/3/1842 Elizb Henley " 40 yrs
MARRIAGE
Wm Henley and Elizabeth Benbow both otp were married after banns 15/10/1822 Witness Jn Henley Senr, John Henley Jnr,
? Henley, Sarah Spencer. All signed except Elizb.
Wm Henly (signed Henley) and Sarah Chapman married 7/1/1827 after banns. Witness Wm Keen, Wm Barlow. Willam Keen and Sarah signed with X.
Those are all I had time for.......vicar appeared to do mass baps or else he wrote up in one go.!! Entries are from the film of the register and not confirmed with BT's.
If you want anything checked from the IGI can probably do that if I missed out. One small point when going thru the marriage register the "grooms" came from far and wide. Kent, Suffolk, Northants, Cambs, Bucks, Herts, Somerset and Liverpool to name a few. I don't think much of this will be any use unless you want to follow siblings.
Bye Susan
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Absolutely brilliant, susan. Many thanks indeed. That should provide plenty of information to help tie the tree together. Interesting and useful advice too about the origins of the grooms !
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Hi Susan -
A postscript to all that wonderful assistance you provided a couple of months back. IGI gives a family-group record identifying the correct John Henley, plus brother William b1810 - sons of William Henley and Ann White. I had assumed that father William was b1781 son of Andrew Henley/Eliz Cheval. However, there's only one Ann White listed in Woburn, b1770. A bit too much of an age gap. There would have been a better candidate for William the father, b.1775, son of Thomas Henley and Hannah Brampton - except that he was buried in 1776. There's another one, born 1779 (father William, mother Elizabeth) but he was buried in 1785 so that doesn't help a lot either.
I guess it might help to find the gravestone for possible parents Andrew or Elizabeth - in case there's a helpful inscription - and also Ann Henley (nee White) to find out when (and maybe where) she was actually born. I guess that'll have to wait until I next get a chance to visit Woburn. Cheers - Steve
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I will go to Woburn churchyard and have a look. Is no big deal as a nice ride out and a churchyard I have often thought of looking at as well as the church. I have been round one at Woburn.....am not quite sure where it fits in. At that time was just looking.......is now behind the heritage centre.
Anyway G/son and I will give it a whirl this week.......weather permitting.
Susan
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Susan - that would be very generous of you, but I really ought to be doing this sort of legwork myself ! I never cease to be amazed at how helpful everyone is in the rootschat community (indeed in the family-history world more generally). - Steve
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Morning Steve,
no joy I'm afraid. Most of the headstones prior 1850 are so badly eroded as to be indecipherable. I would add however that there are only maybe two or three in the whole cemetery that give any detail as to who and what. Those are from wealthy families........... interesting of course.
The only 'Henley' headstone was for a Jethro Henley, husband of 'Louis'? who died April 10 1907 aged 70 years.
I don't know if BFHS have a MI inscription book.
Bye Susan
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Hi, Susan - Many thanks for the effort. Interesting about Jethro. There is a Jethro in my tree but I thought he died very young. Will have to double-check that now! Not crucial as I think he was only a second cousin of John's. - Steve
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Hello Susan - I thought you might like to know - big breakthrough today. Visited Bedfordshire records office (extremely helpful people there, as well as being lucky enough to meet a very knowledgeable archivist James Collett-White). On lookin gthrough the parish records, I found ANDREW ENDLEY born 1847, plus details of his children. They match up with Henleys recorded in later years. Also found his father - though only marriage, no birth record. It looks like most if not all of the Henleys fo Woburn were descended from this one person ! They're almost all related. many thanks for your lists which I took with me to check against the new data.
Also discovered (well James Collett-White found for me) an extremely interesting volume - the rates book for Woburn from 1802 to the 1830s with all property addresses, tenants, and owners listed. It would be well worth transcribing, but a major task ! Of course only the tenant, not the whole household, but more frequent than censuses as it seems to have been updated every two or three years. Unfortunately I had time only to scratch the surface of what it contained.
- Steve
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Hi Steve,
glad you had a successful trip. Never enough time to do all one wants and yes Beds CRO staff are really helpful. I expect they told you about their website......can be quite helpful but of course not all transcribed. On my last visit I think they said it stood at about 22% so a long way to go. Having said that I have found info relating to my spouses line so well worth looking. I know they hold papers for the
"Russells" of Woburn Abbey........another of my spouses line mentioned as working on the land and woods for 10/- per week.!!!!
Interesting to hear they have the rates book for Woburn, still it was a pretty big place and quite important due to the "Russells" etc. If you ever manage to pinpoint as to where your ancestors lived you stand quite a good chance that it is still there.
If you neen any lookups now that you seem to have sorted some out will do if local.
Bye Susan
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Many thanks for the offer, Susan - but I think the next step for me is likely to be slogging through reams of vouchers in the Russell archive to see if their furniture purchases/repairs etc mention William Henley by name. I wouldn't wish that sort of task on anybody.