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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cardiganshire => Wales => Cardiganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: fisherj on Saturday 27 February 10 23:39 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find the marriage of Thomas and Rachel and thereby her name before marriage. I have been unable to find birth certs for either of their (?? surviving??) 2 children. Since Rachel was born in Llandybi parish, Cards, I am wondering whether they married in Llandybi.
Thomas and Rachel were both born about 1817. He was born in Martletwy parish Pembrokeshire.
Their first (surviving???) child is John Davies who was born about 1845 in Llangyfelach near Swansea - and they were married then. I have wondered whether John was Rachel's father's name.
Thomas's father was George Davies. I don't know what George's occupation was.
Given their very common names I am not too sure where they were in 1841 (?Rhyndwyclydach) but in 1851 they were in Cwmgors Glamorgan where he was the blacksmith.
Thomas and Rachel were buried in a non-conformist chapel graveyard on Baran Mountain, Carms. I am guessing that they could have even married in a non-conformist church and if that was the case it might be even harder to find their records.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Llandybie is in Carmarthenshire and was covered by the Llandilofawr registration district at that time
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Llandybie/
Wherever the marriage took place, it should be on the GRO index. Before civil registration marriages should have been in the parish church and after, and for most of the19th century, a registrar had to attend a marriage in a non-conformist place of worship, so the marriage not making it to the local registrar's office isn't very likely. There are at least a couple of possible marriages
Thomas Davies march qtr 1841 Llandilofawr vol 26 pg 543 with Rachel Pendry on the same page
Thomas Davies dec qtr 1843 Neath vol 26 pg 588 with RachelHughes on the same page
Llanguick/Llangiwg was covered by the Neath registration district.
Have you tried contacting the registrar's office in Neath to see if they have the birth registrations for the children?
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oh yes... Llandybi is in Carms... in my defence, on the 1851 census it says Cardigan Llandybi but that is obviously an error. Sorry to waste your time. Obviously I was displaying a dyslexic streak when I misread Llangybi as Llandybi last night and thought I was on to something I'd previously missed. I've been having that brick wall experience.
The Neath, Swansea, Carms Record Offices have no record of birth certs for their son John and although I have found one for a Margaret, it's that that causes me problems.
You see, I already have the 1841 marriage cert for Thomas Davies and Rachel Pendry. Everything fitted - Thomas is described as a blacksmith, and his father is George. Thomas signed.
However this Thomas and Rachel (Pendry) produced a daughter Margaret in 1850 (according to the birth cert I also have) though the cert has his mark rather than a signature. But according to the censuses they already had a daughter called Margaret born who was 4 at the time of the 1851 census and 13 at the time of the 1861. Maybe the age "4" should have read "4 months" - but the age of 13 ten years later.........?
I appreciate that this is all "off your patch" but I hope you don't mind my sharing my dilemma with you!
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when and where was the 1850 Margaret registered? There's many a Margaret to check on the census without further detail, so date & address please.
Possible baptism for the Thomas who married Rachel Pendry - IGI extracted batch C082821 for Martletwy
Thomas bp 5/5/1817 son of George & Margaret Davies
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Some kind person checked the parish record for Martletwy for me and confirmed the christening of Thomas to George and Margaret Davies. So the interesting thing about the marriage cert I have for Thomas to Rachel Pendry is that that Thomas's father is George - and also that Thomas is a blacksmith. Perfect so far. The marriage is at Llanebie Parish Church 16 January 1841. Rachel's father is named as Phillip Hendry (yes, Hendry). They lived at Cwmbach which was the farm where Rachel's father lived near Llandybi. One of the witness is John Davies - perhaps there is family link here because their son was to be called John. But of course the witness could have been anyone! Thomas appears to have signed his name - I've checked that with the registrars.
Rachel and Thomas Davies lived at Rhyndwyclydach at the time of the 1841 census (I think this area is Clydach now) near Bettws, Carms. By 1851 they lived at Nantygaseg in Cwmgors between Rhydyfro and Gwauncaegurwen with their children John aged 6 and Margaret aged 4. The family remained for years working as blacksmiths.
As I said - I have not found a birth cert for John but the censuses say he was born in Llangyfelach. Margaret according to the censuses was born in Llanguick.
The birth certificate that causes me grief is for 2 November 1850 - Cwmgors, Llanguick - Margaret - mother's name Rachel Davies formerly Pendry. Father's occupation Blacksmith. The mark of Thomas Davies. (Could he have forgotten how to write or had an accident!!!!!) Registration district Ystradgunlais in the counties of Brecon and Glamorgan.
As I say, as perfect as all this looks, Margaret date of birth soes not match with the dates on the censuses for 1851 and 1861. Really annoying. I have checded with the registrar and there is no error on the certificate they sent me.
Any thoughts?
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I think the option of Margaret being 4 months at the time of the 1851 census makes sense. The census was 31/3/1851, so that's ok. 1861 then becomes the problem. Do you have her on any later census entries?
Unless the county boundary has moved which is unlikely as it's a river, Rhyndwyclydach is definitely in Glamorgan, as is GCG.
http://www.tytwp.plus.com/Waun/Waun.html
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no Margaret is obviously married or at least gone by 1871 when she would be 23 (approx!) There are so many Margaret Davies who married around that time in Llandeilo Fawr!
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You may already have this, but just spotted a baptism in IGI batch C099331 for Llandebie of
Rachel dau of Philip & Rachel Perry 24/8/1813
other children to the couple are recorded as Penry
Rees bp 15/10/1815
Anne bp 10/3/1822
Phillip bp 23/1/1825
Phillip Penry married Rachel Powel 7/3/1813 in Llandebie
Phillip Penry/Pendry widower married Hannah Davies widow 16/2/1827 in Llandebie
Why are you looking for Margaret Davies marrying in Llandilofawr? The registration district for Llanguick was Neath until 1875, when it transferred to Pontardawe.
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I had found Phillip Pendry and his wife Hannah and got their death certificates in the hope I might find a will for either of them which would refer to their son in law Thomas Davies!!! but no such luck. No wills at all for either of them.
Thanks for the other info about Phillip.
There are absolutely loads of Margaret Davies married in Neath.
Is this a blank then? Should I give up?!!!!! :'(
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Thomas & Rachel Davies appear in the list of members in Baran Chapel for 1841
http://www.a-glamorgan-family.com/BaranChapelMembers.html
The Swansea archives have some records
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=27191
there don't appear to be registers, but it might be worth asking to see if John is on a later list.
Have you looked for a will for George Davies?
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These are my Thomas and Rachel Davies - in 1841 they were living in Rhyndwyclydach. They were buried in the graveyard at Baran Chapel next to the grave of John and his wife Mary.
I've looked for a will for George Davies and there is one that might be a possibility (with wife Margaret) but it does not provide anything useful in terms of trying to identify which Rachel Thomas married.
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so what about the membership lists and the history of Baran Chapel at the archives in Swansea? As they were members for so long, they may get a mention.