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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Ozlibby on Saturday 06 March 10 09:00 GMT (UK)
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Dearest Rootschat lovely lookups,
I am aware that there is an entry in the 1851 census for William Sillitoe at Wirral. Can anyone give me info recorded there including DOB? is he on 1861? 1871? is he married? looking for his wife's maiden name which may be Scandinavian. Really really appreciate any help from you. He had a daughter Agnes Mary or Mary Agnes whose birth I have not been able to find anywhere and many very good generous people in forums in the UK have tried to find her too!
best wishes
OzLibby :)
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Hi
The only William SILLITOE I can see in the 1851 census in Wirral is age 12 and born Charles County, America (no State mentioned)
John SILLITOE 46 Woodside Ferry (collector) born Denbigh
Hellen 48 wife born Scotland
Mary A 17 daugh born Baltimore, America
Richard 14 son born Baltimore
William 12 son born Charles County
Is this the right family?
Andy
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thanks for that, I am really not sure if this is the right one, I took a guess by the Wirral address since that's where the rest of the family in following generations are - there is another entry in Nantwich but not sure of the proximity of that. The American thing seems strange, never mentioned by anyone in oral history.
back to the drawing board...
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Hi
Woodside Ferry terminal is in Birkenhead and the ferry is across the River Mersey to Liverpool.
What do you know about him>
Andy
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right, so this could also be him
his daughter was Agnes Mary or Mary Agnes born Seacombe, Cheshire (but I can't find her birth certificate anywhere and I have exhausted every avenue). She married in Liverpool she was married in 1882 to William Hayes in Liverpool and died at Birkenhead in 1912. William Sillitoe is listed on her marriage cert as her father. I think he was a labourer. can this possibly help to find him and his marriage? and maybe even Agnes' birth?
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Hi OzLibby
I did a lot of various look-up for Sillitoe if that was the right spelling :-\ In Wirral for a member about 3/4/ years ago.Which included Seacombe and surrounding aria.Have you got any rellies on rootschat ;D Unfortunately I don't keep results once search finished
Celia
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Hi Celia,
Yes that was me you helped try to find Agnes but I have had no luck. Taking a new tack trying to find William (her dad) his birth, marriage and census info.
Libby
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Hi Ozlibby
I understand you have Agnes Mary (or Mary Agnes) Sillitoe
marriage certificate.
Could you please give me the name of William Hayes father on the MC.
I have a William Hayes on my family tree, born 1860, in Liverpool.
Many of the Hayes family lived in Birkenhead/Seacombe area.
English Daisy
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William Hayes father was George, Blacksmith. William was born in Glamorgan, Wales but his Dad was born in Budworth Cheshire.
Thank you !
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Hi
Can you just confirm the place of birth for William HAYES. According to the 1891 census I thought was your family in Seacombe, William, Agnes, and children Elizabeth, Agnes, Edith & Ann, William HAYES was born in Wallasey and Agnes was born in Birkenhead.
Andy
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According to earlier censuses William Hayes was born in Egremont. The family lived in Tobin Street, Liscard so "Wallasey" would cover it.
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yes, that is all correct but how does this help me find william sillitoe???
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Just trying to get the facts straight Libby - Egremont is a long way from Glamorgan. We weren't sure if we had the right family for 1891.
So:
1891 - census has her as Agnes age 27 born Birkenhead
1901 - she is Agnes age 39 born Seacombe
1911 - I think she is Agnes aged 50 born Birkenhead?
Not sure if I have the right death for her - is she Mary A Hayes aged 50? And her marriage certificate has her as Mary Agnes? Does it show her age?
Who were the marriage witnesses?
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Hi Ozlibby
The reason I asked about confirmation of birthplace is that said that William Hayes was born in Glamorgan, Wales but that didn't match the information on other posts.
One possibility is that Agnes/Mary's parents were not married and her birth was registered in her mothers maiden name. She could have changed her name to her reputed fathers surname when she married. What is puzzling is that there doesn't seem to be a trace of Agnes/Mary in either the 1871 or 1881 census nor a birth registered with the Sillitoe. Also, I can't find a trace of William Sillitoe at all
Andy
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Hi Andy,
Thanks for that. I am wondering if she was born overseas. Apparently Williams wife was scandinavian, probably Norwegian. Is this a possibility - ? How can I trace that?
Libby
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What is puzzling is that there doesn't seem to be a trace of Agnes/Mary in either the 1871 or 1881 census nor a birth registered with the Sillitoe. Also, I can't find a trace of William Sillitoe at all
Andy
Agnes isn't registered in Birkenhead or anywhere else ???
I get the impression there is something not quite right in the records.Its like a jigsaw puzzle with the main bit missing ;D
Celia
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There's no guarantee that the birth of Mary Agnes was registered, but here from FreeBMD are the candidates registered in Birkenhead RD 1861-3:
Dec 1861
SMITH Mary Agnes Birkenhead 8a 385
Sep 1862
EDWARDS Mary Agnes Bell Birkenhead 8a 430
Dec 1862
CA?LAN Mary Agness Birkenhead 8a ???
CHRISTIANSEN Mary Agnes Birkenhead 8a 42?
WALKER Mary Agnes Birkenhead 8a 420
Sep 1863
BROSTER Mary Agnes Birkenhead 8a 430
Dec 1863
SINNETT Mary Agnes Birkenhead 8a 414
If we are looking for a scandinavian name, Christiansen stands out.
Sinnett must also be a possible.
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The Christiansen girl's father was Henry, a ship's carpenter from Denmark. She was born Tranmere.
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Agnes Sinnett, aged 7, born Birkenhead, is with her grandmother Mary McNamara in 1871 at 23 William Street Birkenhead. Looking at Sinnett/McNamara marriages it seems probable that her father was John Sinnett
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I should have asked this before, Libby - is there an address shown for Mary Agnes Sillitoe on the marriage certificate?
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no address but the witness for Mary is Louise Sweet
later on a census Mary Agnes is listed as Agnes so perhaps her birth was recorded under Agnes Mary? is this possible to check ?
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Hi
Sorry, William Hayes witness was Alber Loder.
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Hi
You can actually check births yourself http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/ I just had a quick look at births for Agnes Mary and there is no SILLITOE or anything similar. One did catch my eye though Agnes Mary JONES birth reg Wirral June qtr 1860. Richard SILLITOE, the older brother of William from the 1851 census, married a Jane JONES at Bebington, St Andrews in 1859. Given how common a surname JONES is its probably a coincidence but its worth at least having a look at. I'll see if I can track Agnes Mary JONES through the censuses.
Andy
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THat was meant to say Albert!
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Thanks Andy, that is definitely the most promising bit of info to date - I really appreciate your help. I feel I am going round in circles and thanks for the tip about the free BMD - will definitely use that.
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Hi
Unfortunately it looks like Agnes Mary JONES is the daughter of John & Selina JONES
Andy
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Ok well at least I had a brief glimmer of hope!
is it possible for you to send me the detail of the 1851 census with William and his brother? I haven't seen that.
might be time for me to renew my ancestry membership - it's just really expensive for an international membership and I don't use it often
isn't it late at night in the UK?
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this will take a long time but at least it`s a look up for you...regarding the Norwegian wife of William...there is a list of Merseyside Aliens of which foreigners were recorded from 1869-1912 when they arrived on Merseyside..go to
www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/merseysidealiens/aliensbirth.htm#NORWAY
there are a two with addresses in SEACOMBE....maybe if you make a list of these names and then look for marriages for them you MIGHT. find some connection to a Sillitoe...(a remote chance I know)...but maybe William was his middle name....if you look for a marriage of Sillitoe to any of the Norwegian surnames on the Aliens list you may be lucky....allan :)
ADDED...IT LOOKS like the first Norwegian registered is 1886 so doesn`t look good..never mind...at least you can keep the site for future reference...allan
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wow! thanks heaps for that, I will check this out
Libby
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Just looking at the marriage witnesses. Albert Loder lived a couple of doors away from William Hayes in Tobin Street so there is an obvious connection there.
Can't find a Louise Sweet in Merseyside though....
There's a Josephine Louisa Sweet who married Samuel M German at St Timothy's in Everton in 1885. She died in 1889 aged 25 or 26. This could be the Josephine Sweet born America circa 1861 who is with her mother, sister and brother-in-law Robert Holding in Hornby Street in the1881 census.
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Hi Libby
On the marriage certificate of Mary Agnes what was her occupation? The 1881 census can be searched by occupation so it might be a way to locate her.
Andy
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Dearest Shaun,
Pardon my naivete at all this, but how did you figure that out? is that from census docs? irony is, I know all about william hayes, it's agnes i can't find and lo and behold her witness is elusive as well!!!
Libby
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Thanks Andy, the occupation is blank - OF COURSE!!!
maybe she just doesn't want to be found!
now, you may think I am mad, but I actually paid to ask a psychic about this and they said not to give up!!!
very grateful for everyones efforts to help unravel this mystery,
libby
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that's interesting actually because there was a william sillitoe born in america too
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how did you figure that out?
It's from a combination of 1881 census, FreeBMD, and LancsBMD
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I have alot to learn about how to do this research - I really appreciate your time - thank you, thank you, thank you!
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I am coming over to Wallasey in September, any recommendations about ways to find this info whilst I am there ? or is everything that can be known online?
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ps in case you hadn't figured it, I am in Australia - my nan migrated here in the 1920s but she was a Wallasey lass through and through !
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www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/merseysidealiens/aliensbirth.htm#NORWAY
there are a two with addresses in SEACOMBE....maybe if you make a list of these names and then look for marriages for them you MIGHT. find some connection to a Sillitoe...(a remote chance I know)...but maybe
had a go at this but no luck - the fact is i just don't know what else to try - I can't go to a scandinavian forum without a name to try, have searched for Mary Agnes and Agnes Mary on Norwegian sites, it seems to be popular as a Nordic name - so at least that is encouraging.
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Hiya Libby....I have posted this thread for you....go to www.yoliverpool.com and then join for free....then go to Liverpool Districts.....then to the William Sillitoe thread and tell the people of Wirral your request....good luck...
this is the thread for you.I hope you don`t think I`m being forward,I just thought it would be easier for you to go straight to the thread than you working your way around the site. we scousers like to try and help each other and yoliverpool is a scouse site and VERY friendly.
www.yoliverpool.com/forum/showthread.php?28608-william-sillitoe-wirral&p=239365#post239365
allan ;)
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Hi
The American born William Sillitoe is in Bodfari, North Wales, in the 1871 census and unmarried. It looks like he died a few months after the census as there is a death in St Asaph Reg Dist Dec Qtr 1871 age 32, right age and right district for Bodfari. According to the census he was a bookkeeper I suppose its possible he was a labourer around the time of Agnes Marys' birth but I haven't found him in the 1861 census yet
Another likely candidate is William SILLITOE born Liverpool c1832 He married Ann KELLY in 1853 and in the 1861 census is in Barnston, a foundry Labourer They did have a daughter named Mary born c1857 but it looks like she died in 1868 age 11. Its possible he fathered a child with another woman.
Andy
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William SILLITOE born Liverpool c1832 He married Ann KELLY in 1853 and in the 1861 census is in Barnston
George Hayes was from Barnston
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yipeeeee!!
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CHRISTIANSEN Mary Agnes Birkenhead 8a 42_ Scan available - click to view
born in 1862 - I think this is her!!! I have tears in my eyes!!!
I am ordering the cert as we speak!
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See reply 17
The Christiansen girl's father was Henry, a ship's carpenter from Denmark. She was born Tranmere
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Mary Agnes Christiansen married someone else in Birkenhead in 1887 - either Richard Jervis or James Edward Mathison
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??? :'(
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Hi
The parents of Mary Agnes CHRISTIANSEN are Henry CHRISTIANSEN and Mary Agnes LAWLER
Andy
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she married richard jervis...it`s on cheshbmd....allan
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ok so that's a dead end - have posted on YoLiverpool today