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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: Gadget on Wednesday 03 October 07 21:24 BST (UK)
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Not sure if this is the correct place but I now have access to:
Football League Players' Records 1888-1939 by Michael Joyce
So anyone who wants a footballing ancestor's info, just ask :)
Gadget
(Mods - please move if in wrong place)
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Hello Gadget,
Would Irish and Scots players who moved to live in England and Wales be on the list?
Christopher
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If they played in the Football league between 1888 and 1939. Yes.
But, sorry, no look ups between now and 1st April.
Gadget
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Gadget- whenever you get a chance (no hurry) could you check for two:
Samuel JACKSON
born 1900 Belfast
played for Broadway United, Distillery, Cliftonville, Swansea Town, Barnsley, Barn United, Portadown, Ards.
Andrew Lynd KENNEDY
born 1897
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Kennedy_(footballer)
Many thanks
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I'd better join the queue now .. if I can please?
My great Uncle Jimmy .. presumably under the name James Delaney .. was rumoured to play for Accrington Stanley.
I will modify this post when I can get a few more details .. it would have been pre second world war.
Thanks Gadget. :)
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Please can someone jog my memory on 1st April :)
Gadget
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Please can someone jog my memory on 1st April :)
Gadget
Hi Gadget,
Would April 2nd not be a better day for memory jogging ???
Christopher
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Hi Gadget,
Thank you for your kind offfer.
Any information for....
Peter DURBER, born 1873 Audley Staffordshire England.
Played for Southampton ...late 1890's.
Looking forward to !st.April. :) :)
Sarra
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Gadget- whenever you get a chance (no hurry) could you check for two:
Samuel JACKSON
born 1900 Belfast
played for Broadway United, Distillery, Cliftonville, Swansea Town, Barnsley, Barn United, Portadown, Ards.
Andrew Lynd KENNEDY
born 1897
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Kennedy_(footballer)
Many thanks
Samuel Jackson - details as you have already given - b. Belfast Capped twice for Ireland (Irish League) - and teams
Kennedy - b. Belfast, 1st Sept 1895 d. 1963
Capped twice for Ireland.
played - Belfast Celtic; Glentoran. Then 1920 1921 Crystal Palace; 1922 1927 Arsenal; 1928 Everton; 1930 Tranmere Rovers
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I'd better join the queue now .. if I can please?
My great Uncle Jimmy .. presumably under the name James Delaney .. was rumoured to play for Accrington Stanley.
I will modify this post when I can get a few more details .. it would have been pre second world war.
Thanks Gadget. :)
I don't see him, Pels. have you got any other details?
Gadget
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Hi Gadget,
Thank you for your kind offfer.
Any information for....
Peter DURBER, born 1873 Audley Staffordshire England.
Played for Southampton ...late 1890's.
Looking forward to !st.April. :) :)
Sarra
b. Wood Lane, Staffs, Q2, 1873. Played at left back and left half
1896 1897 Stoke; Southampton; 1900 Stoke; 1901 Glossop; Northampton Town
:)
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Thanks very much Gadget.
Just yesterday found more details on this website:
http://nifg.co.uk/?cat=33
The nice thing is that there's a photo of my grandfather's cousin Andy and I can see a resemblance to his mother's family.
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It's good to get photos - I have a lot of my relatives from football books, etc. as well as those 'handed down' :D
Now, I await Pels' further info :)
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
May I have a lookup too please?
We have a photograph of the Workington Association Football Club in 1905/1906 and on it is a Grand Uncle but can only make out the name SMITH and not the initial.
We have been told that a Grand Uncle - Joseph Stanley SMITH (born 1881) - was a professional footballer and wondered if it could be him?
Can you see if he is mentioned pleased and any other SMITH's playing for Workington - could be Thomas William (born 1872)? It would be pre WW1.
Thank you very much.
Kind regards and God bless,
Lynne x
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Hi Lynn
Nearest that I can find is a Joseph Stanley (Joe) Smith , b. Keswick. Played Outside Left.
1904 - played for Burnley
I don't see Thomas Willam.
Was Workington in the Football League then - I'm not sure :-\
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
That's him! Born Keswick, yes! :D
Not sure about Workington being in the League either but couldn't remember the name of the team Joseph played professionally for except it began with "B"!
Thank you very much! ;D
Kind regards and God bless you,
Lynne x
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Hi Gadget,
If you have time could you please see if there is anything about an Edward Blakey HASTINGS aka "Stack" Hastings ? Born in 1880s.
Kind of you to do these lookups.
Thanks,
charlotte
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Sorry Charlotte
He's not there :(
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget.
charlotte
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Hello Gadget
I would be grateful if you could look up an Edwin Grant who I am told played for Everton. Not sure when this would have been but most likely sometime from early to mid 20th century. Many thanks.
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Sorry, chirp - no sign of him or when I G**gle :(
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HI Gadget
Please could you look for my grandad Albert Worth.
Mum said he had trials for Manchester United and Crewe whilst he was playing at Macclesfield Town.
He was born in 1891 - so it would have been just before and after WW1 I imagine?
Thanks
Carol
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Hi Carol
I have one b. 1888, Manchester - played Outside Left.
1907 1908 - Stockport County; Rochdale; 1911 - Grimbsby Town; Luton Town; Heywood United
Does that sound like him :-\
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
No that's not him but thanks anyway.
It was a slim chance,cos mum's not 100% sure of her facts ::)
He was born in Macclesfield in 1891.
Carol
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If he didn't play for a league side, he won't be there - sorry :-\
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Hi Gadget,
Can you possibly find any info on Arthur Arrowsmith, played in the 1900s. I think he played for Wolves and possibly Stoke City around 1908-1911 period.
Sheila
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Here we are, Sheila:
b. Wolverhampton 1880. d. 1954
Position - Inside Right.
Sides but no dates - Compton; Coventry City
1906 1907 - Stoke; 1908 - Wolves; Willenhall Swifts
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Thanks Gadget but that's intrigueing!
The Stoke, Wolves dates agree with what we were expecting but I have approx dates of birth-death as 1881-1912.
I wonder if they could have mixed him up with someone else.
Or have we got the wrong one ???
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The birth date is fairly close - all it says is d. 1954. I think they used various sources - including what people told them.
This site:
http://allfootballers.com/
only has him up to 1908 and no other details.
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Thanks anyway Gadget - I appreciate your help.
Chirp
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Hi Gadget
Could you please look up Robert Groggins, who I think played for Carlisle United some time before WW1?
Thanks :)
Rosemary
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Thanks Gadget,
I'll hope that it is just one mistake on their part then and that the rest is correct.
Sheila
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Hi Rosemary
I'll look up later or tomorrow.
You will appreciate that there is an important match on tonight and a lot of my rellies are connected to it.
:)
Look ups suspended pro tem
Gadget
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Well I didn't know until I heard the roaring in the background before, I don't follow it myself sorry ::)
I didn't even know who was playing, I sorted through some old letters etc while it was on. I don't know if you'll find Robert, but that's the story about him - the only Groggins who became professional. It could be a bit of a Chinese whisper of course, and he could have been a greensman or whatever they call the men who mow the lawn/pitch ;D
Rosemary
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Hi Rosemary
it was a good match :D
No sign of your Robert but I don't think Carlisle Utd were in the Football League at that time:
Carlisle were elected to Division Three (North) replacing Durham City, in 1928-29.
http://www.carlisleunited-mad.co.uk/news/loadsngl.asp?cid=ED21
Gadget
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Hiya Gadget,
Can you check out James Sharples, I know he played for Swindon circa 1898-1900 and Wigan , but I think he also played for Millwall and maybe a few others. I think he was a prolific goal scorer.
Cheers,
Riddler
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Welcome to Rootschat, Riddler :)
Did you join for this information :D
James Sharples
b. Blackburn 1874 d. 1920. Played Inside and Outside Left.
Played for - Rossendale
1894 1896 - Manchester City (Ardwick); also - Wigan; Swindon; Millwall.
Gadget
sorry - no more tonight - print is very small :(
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Dear Gadget,
just a thought, Jimmy Delaney played for Manchester United in the late forties/ early fifties. Scottish outside right!
Bill
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Hi Bill
I hope Pels sees this - not sure if it's hers or not.
it would explain why he's not there though - it ends in 1939.
Also, again worth noting - the records are for those who played for clubs in the Football League at that time.
Gadget :)
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Thanks for the kind offer. It's probably a rumour but would you be able to confirm if a .... Lawrence (sorry don't have christian name) played for Wales in early 1900s. He was born in either Oswestry, Shropshire or Ruabon Denbighshire.
Thanks for looking for me.
Mandy
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Hi Mandy
That's where my lot came from :D
If he played for Wales it would be Ruabon or one of the parishes that were included with Oswestry.
I'll check later if that's all right. However, many of the Welsh team were amateurs in those days and wouldn't be in the book but I'll look around in some of my other bits and pieces.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget ;D
Another family fable!!
Rosemary
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May not be a fable, Rosemary. Just that Carlisle weren't in the League :-\
Mandy
:D
I think I've found him:
Edward (Eddie) Laurence. b. Cefn Mawr 24 August 1907. d. 1989
(Cefn was in the Ruabon sub-district of Wrexham RD)
Played Left and Right Half.
Capped for Wales twice.
Played for Druids (Rhosllanerchrugog) ( :o Chirk's bete noire)
Then -
1925-1927 Wrexham; 1928-1930 Clapton Orient ??? ; 1931-1935 Notts County; 1936 Bournemouth; 1937 Clapton Orient; 1938 Notts County
Gadget :)
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Gadget,
Thank you very much for the information on PETER DURBER.
I guess being a Professional Footballer was preferable to a Miner in those days.
Sarra :) :)
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Excellent information. Thanks for spending the time looking for him even though I wasn't sure about it.
Gives me an idea of where some of the family may have moved to after 1901.
You never know Gadget we may be related somewhere down the line!
Thanks again
Mandy
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And I've just spotted my obvious mistake :-[ :-[ :-[
1825-1927 Wrexham; 1828-1930 Clapton Orient ??? ; 1831-1935 Notts County;
He had a h*ll of a long career ::)
I'll go change it :D
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It's ok after I had read it a couple of times it suddenly dawned on me too. Thought he was a bionic man. ;D
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Are you still offering "look-ups" for professional footballers - I see it is a while since anything was posted on this thread?
William Stevenson, born Kilmarnock (or Glasgow in some census returns!), in 1881 apparently played for Preston North End in the eary 1900s, and may have played for Liverpool too.
I would be grateful for any information!
Many thanks
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Hi
He doesn't appear in my book but I'll PM the PNE mascot and draw his attention to your message. He might well have some information for you :)
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget - I would appreciate any information! However, it seems that it is not the William Stevenson I quoted, born 1881, but his son, another William Stevenson, born 1906 (ish) who rumour has it played for PNE.
Thanks again
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Hi Gadget,
wonder if yu could look up and see if there were 2 brothers by the name of McCann or McGoohan who played for Celtic FC, probably around the 1900 mark.
Be most grateful.
Regards,
Lynda
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Hi Linda :)
I've got McCann and McGowan but none played for Celtic :-\
Have you got their first names?
Gadget
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Hi There,
Family story is that 2 brothers palyed for Celtic. The story is that 2 grandson's of John McGoohan played for Celtic. That would probably McCann or McGoohan. However there has been a problem with the name McGoohan and all its interpretaions, so may be a McGowan....if you know what I mean. Its down to the Irish accent....I dont have the first names tahough, sorry..
regards,
Lynda
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Hi United
The only Stevenson I can find that played for Preston was James Stevenson, Born Bonhill, August 1875,
He played for Dumbarton twice, Preston North End twice, West Bromwich Albion and Bristol St George.
If you think this is your man I will be able to provide further info
Regards
Simon
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Thanks Simon - I appreciate your time.
This is a real mystery - it is my husband's grandfather, and family folk lore has always said he played for PNE and Liverpool, but he died years ago. My husband has always accepted the story, particularly since he remembers going to a testimonial at Deepdale as a child with his grandfather and being introduced to Tom Finney! I thought I would try to find out the facts ..... but it seems there aren't any!!
Thanks for looking!
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United
All is not lost yet, if he didn't make a first team appearance, then I wouldn't have the information.
I will speak to the club historian/archivist
Simon
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Thanks Simon - I appreciate your interest!
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Hi United
This is a puzzler, between Gadget and myself we can normally find players.
Liverpool did have a William Stevenson play for them, but not untill 1962
Simon
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You're doing a grand job, Simon, and I've come to the same conclusion as you - he might not have played for the first team. My book only lists those who've played in a League game :-\
Gadget
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I have two books that list PNE first teamers, but one has loads more info. I looked at team club photo's from WWI to the end of WWII, but nothing. I found one photo with 32 players on it (1928), I didn't know they had squads that big then ??? ???
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Not really sure about the average size of clubs in those days, Simon.
I do have the history of that Chirk AFC club that many of my ancestors and wider kin group played for before moving on to bigger clubs. Nearly half of the Welsh side came from there are one stage 8) During the 1920s and 1930s they did seem to have signed up quite a lot of players.
It could be that some of the 32 players were semi-professional. I know that my Dad was for a time before he went full time.
Gadget
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Liverpool did have a William Stevenson play for them, but not untill 1962
Simon
Much as I would like it to be - that is much too late for someone born in 1906 ...!!
Maybe he did just play for the reserves - if he played at all.
Maybe it will just be another family myth shot down in flames ......!!
I do appreciate the trouble you are taking ...!
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Hi
Do you have a John Edward Pollard listed as playing for Aylesbury, would be very late 40's up to March 1950?
Thank you
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Hi Mentmore
Gadget and myself can only lookup players who have made appearances in the English Football League. Alysbury United FC have not risen that far.
I suggest you contact the club, I'm sure someone will be able to help you
info@aylesburyunitedfc.co.uk
Regards
Simon
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Hi Simon
Thank you for your reply. I have on numerous occassions contacted Aylesbury football club, and never received an answer, will give it one last try.
Thank you
Carol
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Hi mentmore
Have you tried this listing:
http://www.aylesburyunitedfc.co.uk/players.php?show=pastplayers
Gadget
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Gadget
I had a look on that site, it didn't mention many 40/50s players
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. Didn't look at it but thought it was worth putting up. The whole website looks quite interesting :)
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Hi Gadget,
If you have the time, could you please look up George Bradshaw, b. 1913, who I believe played for Bury in the 1930's and '40s.
Thanks very much!
Arkay
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Hi Arkay
b. Trimdon Grange 12 March 1904
Played Left and Right Back
Played for:
24-28 Blackpool
27-33 Bury
35 - Tranmere
Gadget
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United
PNE's historian has just been in touch, he can't find a record of a William Stevenson signing for them
Sorry
Simon
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Thanks for taking the time and trouble Simon - I do appreciate it. (Not sure my husband will ....!!!!!)
Goodness knows where this story started, or how "our" William Stevenson earned the right to the board room for that testimonial match ...!!
Grateful thanks and best wishes
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Hi Gadget,
Thanks for looking, but I don't believe that's my George Bradshaw. He was definitely born in 1913 (in Southport, Lancs) and was a goalkeeper.
Are there perhaps any others with the same name?
Cheers!
Arkay
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Yer right, arkay :D There's a George Frederick Bradshaw b. Southport 10 March 1903. Died 1989
Goalkeeper.
Played ~
High Park Villa
1931 Southport
1932-34 New Brighton
1934 Everton
1935 Arsenal :( (He would have known a cousin of mine)
1936-37 Doncaster Rovers
1938-49 Bury
1950 Oldham Athletic
Gadget :)
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Wow, Gadget, that was fast!
Thank you so much for the information - I really appreciate it. (I didn't know he played in all those places!)
Arkay
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My Dad and I played on the wing - must have got the speed from Uncle Billy ;D
Gadget
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I take it you were a left winger Gadget!
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Yep - and my Dad ;D
I think Grandad Joe was an inside left/centre forward. I'll have to look in my Chirk book for the details of him again :)
anyone you'd like info on William?
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Not for the moment thanks Gadget,this is just a thread I read with intense interest!
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Hi
Not sure if you will be able to help.
I have 3 old photos of football teams, no idea who they are.
I have a feeling one could be from Lancashire area. Do you have an Ernest Shaw born 1882 Yorkshire, or any Shaw around that time?
I could possibly try to scan the photos and upload to see if anyone recognises the teams. They may just be local football teams (probably in Yorkshire), I'm really unsure. One says 1910/11.
Thanks
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Hi :)
I've not got an Ernest Shaw listed but it would be worth putting up the photos to see if anyone recognised them - either on here or a new thread in the Common Room :)
Simon might have some info.
Gadget
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Hi again and thank you.
I've posted in the common room.
I had to reduce the quality of the photos so that I could upload them, which is a shame.
:(
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Hi Gadget,
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you but I now have the names of the men . John McCann, played for Celtic 1893 1895 and Hibs later. Also Edward McCann who played for Celtic 1893. Both went on to play for clubs down south, one at Newcastle United and one at Preston North end.
Any info would be great.
Many thanks,
Lynda
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Hi Lynda
I've been through all the McCanns and I can't find them. It could be that they didn't play in the (English) Football League first teams :-\
Simon might be abole to find something for the Preston North End one.
Sorry.
Regards
Gadget
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Thank you for looking.
Kind regards,
Lynda
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Dear Gadget,
Do you have any information on a James [Jimmy] Swarbrick who played for Grimsby Town 1905 - 1907?
Thanks
jds1949
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Hi Gadget:
May I ask for any information you may have on the career of one George Stabb, born 1912 in Paignton? I believe he played for Torquay and Bradford Park Avenue in the 1920s-late 1930s.
The menfolk would love to know more but this is an area about which I know less than nothing - let alone how to research it!
Thank you - Rachel
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Dear Gadget,
Do you have any information on a James [Jimmy] Swarbrick who played for Grimsby Town 1905 - 1907?
Thanks
jds1949
James Swarbuck b.Lytham St Annes in 1881. Played Outside Left.
Played for -
Blackpool Red Star (note Blackpool not Belgrade ;D )
Marton Combination
Blackpool Etrurians
From 1901 - Blackburn Rovers; Accrington Stanley; Brentford; Grimsby Town; Oldham Athletic; Southport Central; Stoke; Port Vale; Swansea Town
Gadget
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Dear Gadget,
Thanks for that!
jds1949
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Hi Gadget:
May I ask for any information you may have on the career of one George Stabb, born 1912 in Paignton? I believe he played for Torquay and Bradford Park Avenue in the 1920s-late 1930s.
The menfolk would love to know more but this is an area about which I know less than nothing - let alone how to research it!
Thank you - Rachel
George Herbert Stabbs, b. Paignton 26 Sept 1912. Died 1994. Played Centre Half, Right Half and Inside Left!
Played for - Paignton Town; Dartmouth United
From 1931, played for - Torquay United; Notts County; Port Vale; Bradford Park Avenue
Gadget
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Marvelous - thank you very much, Gadget. George Stabb certainly got around a bit! Now I shall G* these teams and see if I can find any sites with photos.
Rachel
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Hi Lynda
A James McCann made 6 appearances for Preston North End in the 1893-94 season, he came from north of the border but my book doesn't say where. If this is your man let me know and I will post the match details
Regards
Simon
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Rachel
Most professional and a lot of the bigger amateur clubs have an historian/archivist. It is always worth phoning the club up and asking for contact details.
Also a lot of clubs have a Former Players Association who maybe able to help.
Regards
Simon
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Morning Simon,
This will be our man. The info Iwas given was that it was John and Edward McCann. However there was a a son called James. It would be good to have the details. Do you know if Edward played with Newcastle? Many thanks for you time in this matter.
Kind regards,
Lynda
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Lynda
I'm afraid I can only do Preston North End lookups, Gadget is the one for other clubs.
James McCann made 6 appearances for Preston North End in the 1893 - 94 season
Oct 14 1893 (H) 1 - 2 v Burnley Scorer James McCann
Oct 28 1893 (A) 3 - 2 v Everton
Nov 4 1893 (H) 1 - 0 v Bolton Wanderers
Nov 11 1893 (H) 0 - 1 v Blackburn Rovers
Nov 13 1893 (A) 1 - 2 v Stoke City
Dec 2 1893 (H) 0 - 2 v Nottingham Forrest
So far I've been unable to find a photograph, I will keep looking
Regards
Simon
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Hi Lynda
As you know, I looked them up and there are no John or Edward's mentioned in it. It only lists people who played in the Football League. They might have played for the clubs but not in the first team.
I think Simon can confirm this.
Gadget
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Gadget and Lynda
I can only lookup men that have played for our first team. In the early years of professional football there are quite a lot of A.N. Others playing in reserve football, they were amateur players having trial matches for professional clubs
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Gadget and Lynda
I can only lookup men that have played for our first team.
That's what I was saying, Simon . I asked for your confirmation that this was the likely situation.
:)
Gadget
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Hi Gadget and Duck,
Thank you both so much. Was going on second hand info and that is why the name was wrong.... and if there was a picture, that would be a bonus.
Many thanks,
Lynda
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Gadget
I've found your Uncles shirt and hat
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The cards infront of shirt and cap
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Billy Meredith was inaugurated into the Football Hall of Fame in 2007
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Thank you Simon - he didn't cost 114 million either ::)
He was my Dad's uncle in law! Anyway, he thought highly of my Dad's skills and got him trials with 'you know who'
Transcribed as a Foatloller in the 1911 ;D ;D ;D
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I also thank Simon for showing the Billy Meredith items.You can indeed be proud Gadget for he was considered by many to be the greatest of all Welsh footballers.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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William, I have to agree .. isn't that something to be so very proud of .. ?? :) :)
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If they played in the Football league between 1888 and 1939. Yes.
But, sorry, no look ups between now and 1st April.
Gadget
In other words, if they played in the Scottish Leagues between these dates, No ?
Wullie
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http://www.thestar.co.uk/doncaster/Remarkable-life-story-of-war.4492913.jp?articlepage=2
Can someone please have a look at the above link and tell me what the status of the Glynn Jones in this newspaper article is as a footballer?
Is it a newpaper beat up?
Reason I ask is that one of my brothers was the pilot of that Lancaster and this is the first I've ever heard of all this.
Any advice, comments, very welcome and hope it isn't out of your frame of reference.
Thanks,
charlotte
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Hi Charlotte
My book only goes to 1939.
There is one Glyn Jones in it:
Born 1916, South Wales and played for Cardiff City, 1834-35
Simon might have later info.
Gadget
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Hi Charlotte
According to the article, Glynn Jones was a professional footballer until war broke out.
As mentioned, players who joined the services could make themselves available to play for the closest club to where they were stationed
Simon
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Thanks Gadget... I realized that this would be, at best, on the borders of your time frame.
I doubt if Glynn Jones was born 1916- probably mid 20s...I'll look up CWGC to see.
Simon , yes, the article says he was a pro but did the clubs/teams with which he was connected have any clout at that time? I guess what I'm asking is, was he any good or is it a beat up?
Bit clumsy with the football lingo- not my territory :-[
Thank you both for your replies.
Thanks again,
charlotte
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I think Simon posted around the same time as me :-\
Simon - the only one I have played for Cardiff City. Do you have any later info?
Gadget
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He was only 20 in 1944- same as my brother, just 20.
from CWGC site.
JONES, GLYNN
Initials: G
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Sergeant (Air Gnr.)
Regiment/Service: Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve
Unit Text: 460 (R.A.A.F.) Sqdn.
Age: 20
Date of Death: 31/03/1944
Service No: 1684714
Additional information: Son of Sarah Ann Jones, of Bentley, Doncaster, Yorkshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 8. B. 4.
Cemetery: DURNBACH WAR CEMETERY
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I have emailed Charlton Athletic
At this moment it is hard to know if he was VERY good. It depends how many players were available at any one time to the war time clubs
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Simon, Thank you.
If you get an answer I'd be very happy to know what they have to say but please don't trouble yourself to pursue this if it gets complicated or time consuming.
Thanks again,
charlotte
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I was wondering why a Doncaster boy signed for Charlton ??? ???
Charlton were one of the top teams in the country in the 1930's, they came Runners-up, fourth and third in the 1st Division in the three years prior to the war.
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Hi Gadget,
Would you be so kind as to look up my grandfather Francis (Frank) James Corbett who played for West Bromwich Albion from 1926 until 1931, then Coventry City for the following season.....would be very interested to what information the book offers.
Many thanks
Alyson
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Hi Alyson
You'll have to wait until the weekend - I'm on my travels at the moment.
Gadget
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Gadget, just for you, your ancestor is holding the ball on the front row. This photo was taken in 1901
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:D
Thanks Simon. My footballing pedigree is assured with all the info that you've found about him :)
Have you got the full team - quite a few might have been from Chirk.
Gadget - on a slow line :-\
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I'm sorry Gadget, I had the photo sent to me and knew it was Billy on the front row :)
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The things you can find on the internet
Dick Roose; Sam Meredith, Charlie Morris [c]; Maurice Parry,
Billy J. Jones, Teddy Hughes II; Billy Meredith, Harry Pugh, Morgan Morgan-Owen, Tom Parry, Eph Williams.
Sorry they are not in photo order.
Is Sam Meredith the brother of Billy ??? ???
The Goalkeeper is David Roose
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Hi Gadget
Not sure if you can find this one. No rush but if you can it would be great. My dad's uncle Willie MacDonald was born 1876 in Inverness.
Dad always said that Willie was a footballer and once played Derby County at Crystal Palace. He seemed to think it was quite a big match but unfortunately he didn't know when, whether he played for or against Derby County nor whether Crystal Palace was the other team or the venue! I'd assume it was around the turn of the century but that's as much as I know. Not much to go on so don't worry if you can't find him but it would be fascinating if he did show up anywhere.
Thanks
Sheena
-
Hi Sheena
Billy MacDonald played for Derby County in the 1899 FA Cup Final v Sheffield United. The match was played on 15th April at Crystal Palace in front of a crowd of 73,833.
Derby lost 4 - 1
Regards
Simon
-
Hi Simon,
That's brilliant, thanks!
I guess the F A Cup Final would be pretty good reason to have been talked about. We won't mention the score ;)
I have a photo of him as an older man at a wedding c1940 and my dad was very fond of him so it's nice to finally find out the truth.
regards
Sheena
-
Hi Gadget,
Would you be so kind as to look up my grandfather Francis (Frank) James Corbett who played for West Bromwich Albion from 1926 until 1931, then Coventry City for the following season.....would be very interested to what information the book offers.
Many thanks
Alyson
Francis James Corbett (Frank) was b. Willenhall 27th August 1903. He played both right and left back.
Career -
Hednesford Town
West Bromwich Albion - 12 first team appearances 1926-1929
Coventry City - 6 forst team appearances 1931
Burton Town
Gadget
-
Please note that I'll not be on as often as I have been for a while.
I'm sure that Simon will be able to fill in any gaps if I'm not around.
Gadget
-
I have a James McLaren born 1897 at Stenhousemuir, Stirlingshire and he was goalkeeper who played for Watford and Coventry City there was another team but cannot remember just now.
Can you please see if you can find him.
Thank you.
from
Emma
-
I have a James McLaren born 1897 at Stenhousemuir, Stirlingshire and he was goalkeeper who played for Watford and Coventry City there was another team but cannot remember just now.
Can you please see if you can find him.
Thank you.
from
Emma
I just have one in my book:
James(Jimmy) McLaren
b. 12 July 1887, Falkirk. Died 1975
Goalkeeper
Played:
Bonnybridge Heatherbell
Stenhousmuir
1922-1926 - 155 appearances for Bradford City
1926-1932 - 170 appearances for Leicester City
1933-1938 - 194 appearances for Watford
Gadget
-
Hi Gadget
Thank you that is him but I have him born 1897 but that does not matter.
I really appreciate you looking now I can add that to the family tree and yes he was born in Falkirk.
from
Emma
-
Hi Emma
Given his career dates, the book could be wrong about the birthdate - there are a few typos in it!
I've just checked on SP and it was 12 July 1897, Falkirk. Parents - James McLaren, cycle merchant and Janet m.s. Naismith
Gadget :)
-
Hi Gadget
Yes that is the right family. Thank you again.
from
Emma
-
Hi Gadget,
Would you be so kind as to look up my grandfather Francis (Frank) James Corbett who played for West Bromwich Albion from 1926 until 1931, then Coventry City for the following season.....would be very interested to what information the book offers.
Many thanks
Alyson
Francis James Corbett (Frank) was b. Willenhall 27th August 1903. He played both right and left back.
Career -
Hednesford Town
West Bromwich Albion - 12 first team appearances 1926-1929
Coventry City - 6 forst team appearances 1931
Burton Town
Gadget
Gadget,
Thankyou so much for the information you have provided........so helpful in my research.
Many thanks
Alyson
-
Millymcb
Information on Arthur H Lockett, born Alsager Bank, 30/08/1875
Arthur H Lockett started his career as an out-side left and had a reputation for bamboozling a full-back twice, turning him inside out. Having started out with his local club Crewe Alexandra, he joined Stoke in 1900 before moving to Aston Villa. He moved to Preston North End at the start of 1905 -06 season. His first season at Deepdale was outstanding as he more than played his part in helping the club finish runners-up in the First Division . Midway through the following season Lockett was switched to right full-back and played with great distinction until leaving to join Watford in 1908.
More information to follow
Regards
Simon
-
Arthur H Lockett PNE appearance record
1905 - 06 Season - Division One
02/09 v Birmingham (a) 1 - 1
04/09 v Nott Forest (h) 3 - 1
09/09 v Everton (h) 1 - 1
16/09 v Derby County (a) 0 - 3
18/09 v Woolwich Arsenal(a) 2 - 2
23/09 v Sheffield Wed (h) 0 - 1
30/09 v Nott Forest (a) 0 - 1
07/10 v Man City (h) 2 - 0 Scored 1
14/10 v Bury (a) 1 - 1
21/10 v Middlesbrough (h) 2 - 1
28/10 v Wolverhampton (h) 3 - 2
04/11 v Newcastle Utd (a) 0 - 1
11/11 v Aston Villa (h) 2 - 0
18/11 v Liverpool (a) 1 - 1
25/11 v Sheffield Utd (h) 1 - 1 Scored 1
02/12 v Notts County (a) 2 - 2
09/12 v Stoke (h) 2 - 0
16/12 v Bolton Wand (a) 2 - 1
23/12 v Woolwich Arsenal(h) 2 - 2
25/12 v Sunderland (h) 1 - 1
30/12 v Birmingham (h) 3 - 0
06/01 v Everton (a) 0 - 1
20/01 v Derby County (h) 3 - 1 Scored 1
27/01 v Sheffield Wed (a) 1 - 1
03/02 v Blackburn Rovers (h) 2 - 1
17/02 v Bury (h) 1 - 0
03/03 v Wolverhampton (a) 3 - 2
14/03 v Middlesbrough (h) 2 - 1
17/03 v Aston Villa (a) 1 - 0
24/03 v Liverpool (h) 1 - 2
31/03 v Sheffield Utd (a) 0 - 0
07/04 v Notts County (h) 4 - 1 Scored 1
Appears to be injured the rest of the season
1905 - 06 FA Cup
13/01 v Birmingham (a) 0 - 1
32 League appearances & 1 FA Cup appearance
-
An interesting Christmas Day fixture there, Simon ::)
You seem to be finding lots of info for Milly :)
-
Thanks Simon - that's fantastic....
After a great football career like that and an England Cap in 1903 - by 1914 - when he attested for WW1 he gave his occupation as a coal miner and enlisted with the Royal Engineers. He died in 1957.
Milly ;D ;D
-
1906 - 07 Season - Division One
01/09 v Birmingham (h) 2 - 0
08/09 v Everton (a) 0 - 1
15/09 v Woolwich Arsenal (h) 0 - 3
22/09 v Sheffield Wed (a) 1 - 2
29/09 v Bury (h) 3 - 2
06/10 v Man City (a) 1 - 1
13/10 v Middlesbrough (h) 4 - 2
20/10 v Derby County (a) 0 - 3
10/11 v Liverpool (a) 1 - 6 Scored 1 (pen)
02/01 v Bolton Wand (a) 0 - 3
26/01 v Sheffield Wed (h) 1 - 0
02/02 v Sheffield Utd (a) 1 - 3
09/02 v Man City (h) 1 - 3
13/02 v Sunderland (a) 0 - 1
16/02 v Middlesbrough (a) 1 - 2
23/02 v Man Utd (a) 0 - 3
02/03 v Newcastle Utd (h) 2 - 2
09/03 v Derby County (h) 1 - 0
16/03 v Liverpool (h) 3 - 1
23/03 v Bristol City (a) 0 - 1
29/03 v Sunderland (h) 2 - 0
30/03 v Notts County (h) 0 - 0
27/04 v Stoke City (h) 2 - 2
23 League Appearances
-
Thanks again...am I right in thinking 06-07 was his last season with Preton?
Milly
-
1907 - 08 Season - Division One
02/09 v Sheffield Wed (h) 1 - 1
07/09 v Birmingham (a) 0 -2
09/09 v Everton (a) 1 - 2
02/11 v Newcastle Utd (h) 2 - 0
09/11 v Bury (a) 1 - 5
16/11 v Aston Villa (h) 3 - 0
23/11 v Liverpool (a) 2 - 1
14/12 v Chelsea (h) 2 - 4
25/01 v Woolwich Arsenal (a) 1 - 1
1907 - 08 FA Cup
20/01 v Brighton (neutral) 0 - 1 2nd Replay
9 League appearances - 1 FA Cup appearance
He moved to Watford from here
-
An interesting Christmas Day fixture there, Simon ::)
I could imagine Maria's face if I tried to go to an away match on Christmas Day, it's bad enough on Boxing Day :o :o :o :o
-
Thanks Simon,
I think I may have a copy of a photo of this game which you may find interesting ;D ;D
02/03 v Newcastle Utd (h) 2 - 2
Milly
;D
-
Hi Milly
I would love to see the photo, I have PM'ed my email address :)
Regards
Simon
-
And I have mailed you back (x2)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Milly
-
Preston North End 1905 - 1906
-
Milly, another for you
-
Milly, just to finish Arthurs two & half seasons at PNE
1907 - 1908 Season
-
Thank you, Simon for all that.
Think you might consider dong a PNE thread after all that ;D
-
Hi Gadget
Is Alfred Dark in your book - Not sure who he played for.
Thanks Laurina
-
Hi Laurina - have you got any idea of his dates - I'll put the light on and look in my book for you :D
-
Thanks Gadget,
He was born 1893, married in Tynemouth in 1921 if that helps at all. Family tales say he was a professional footballer.
Laurina
-
Yes he is - b. Bristol 1883 - then it has Wallsend - d. 1964
It will take me a while to type it all out - hold on :D
played Newcastle 1920
(I'll keep typing)
-
oooh .... that's exciting, thanks, I'd be interested in anything you find
Laurina
-
Alfred James Dark (Alf) b 21 July 1883, Bristol. d. 1964.
played; Centre Half/Right Half
Wallsend then:
1920 -Newcastle
1922 - Leeds Utd
1923 - Port Vale
1924-1927 - HalifaxTown
1928 - Barrow
Sittingbourne
does that fit?
Gadget
-
Thats perfect Gadget, well done... didn't realise he moved around so much
Thank you
Laurina ;D
-
Thanks Duck
Those Preston pix are great - Havn't seen any of them before..
Milly ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
I'm not available to do any more look ups in my book for the forseeable future so any requests should be put up on separate threads.
I'll lock this one now.
Gadget
-
Moderator comment: similar offers merged - perhaps you can split the work?
Hi i am new to this site but have a couple of record books for Professional footballers for English and Scottish teams from 1888 - 1939.
The records can show dates/places of births, teams played for and appearances.
I would be willing to look up these records for anyone who knows of a relative having played for a top British team of those times.
-
hi and welcome to rootschat
neil
-
Hi
I would be interested to find out if you have any information on John Madden who played football for Dumbarton and Celtic among others between 1885 and 1905. Thanks for the offer.
Liz
-
MADDEN, JOHN 2 caps (for Scotland)
b Dumbarton 11.6.1863 d Prague 17.4.1948
Clubs
Dumbarton A
Dumbarton Hibernian
Dumbarton 1886-87
Gainsborough Town 1887-88
Grimsby Town
Celtic 1888-89
Dumbarton
Celtic 1889-90
1890-91 17 app 4 goals
1891-92 11 app 7 goals
Sheffield Wednesday
Celtic 1892-93 14 app 5 goals
1893-94 15 app 5 goals
1894-95 14 app 9 goals
1895-96 12 app 3 goals
1896-97 8 app
Dundee 1897-98 4 app
Tottenham Hotspur 1897-98 2 app in Southern League
From what i can gather he was better known as Jake.
Another (older) resource lists his dob as 11.6.1865.
A small biography of him
2 caps v Wales he scored 4 goals in his Scottish debut on Sat 18 March 1893 at the Racecourse ground and another goal in his only other appearance for Scotland again at the Racecourse (Wrexham) v Wales.
One of the first players to go to Europe : to the Slavia club in Prague and was still coaching there in the 1930's.
Club Honours Dumbarton Scottish Cup Finalist 1887
Celtic League Champions 1893,1894,1896
Scottish Cup Winner 1892 (1st game only) Finalist 1893,1894
Centre Forward with much experience at Outside Right too. Neat and Clever in action and extremely dangerous when, by the early 1890's, an early inclination to indifferent finishing had been rectified. Not very big.
I would be interested to see any photos you have of him in football dress or in a team.
-
Hi :)
I'm not sure if you've seen this thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,259492.0.html
but as your offer refers to England and Scotland, it would be best if it was put on a different board.
Gadget
Moderator comment: previous offer had been withdrawn: topics merged
-
Hi
Thank you for that I knew some of them, but to see it all written down is really good. I would be happy to send you the photographs I have if you want to send me an e-mail.
Liz
-
forgot to say his correct date of birth was 11th June 1865.
-
Gadget/Juniorhistory
Could you see if Joseph Hurst born 1888 in St Helens, Lancs is registered as footballer? His hayday would be 1900-1920 ish
Most grateful
Erikh
:)
-
Hi Gadget,
Only just spotted your offer re pro footballers. Would be interested to know what you can find on my cousin Thomas Albert Parker
(called Albert) who played centre half for Manchester United and Bristol City sometime in the years between about 1927/8 and 1939/40.
Thanks in anticipation.
Jo
-
Gadget/Juniorhistory
Could you see if Joseph Hurst born 1888 in St Helens, Lancs is registered as footballer? His hayday would be 1900-1920 ish
Most grateful
Erikh
:)
Hi Erikh
He doesn't appear in the book - sorry :(
It might be that he didn't play in the Football League as only those who played for the first team are listed.
Gadget
-
Hi Gadget,
Only just spotted your offer re pro footballers. Would be interested to know what you can find on my cousin Thomas Albert Parker
(called Albert) who played centre half for Manchester United and Bristol City sometime in the years between about 1927/8 and 1939/40.
Thanks in anticipation.
Jo
Hi Jo
Thomas Albert Parker was b. Eccles on 22 Nov 1906 and died in 1964
He played centre half for:
Morton (non-league)
1930-32 Man Utd
1932-33 Bristol City
1934 Carlisle Utd
Stalybridge Celtic
Gadget
-
Gadget,
Many thanks for your prompt reply and the information. Great stuff.
Jo
-
Gadget
Thanks for looking
:)
Erikh
-
Hi Gadget
Probably not a professional as Queens Park FC, Glasgow, based at Hampden Park, were an amateur team, but were up there with the best of the teams in Scotland many moons ago.
There's a chance, via family lore info, that my father, John Ross WEBSTER, b. 1901, played for them.
Also some suggestion that he had a trial for a NW English club .....
Orraverybest
kirkmichael
-
Hi KM
Sorry that your's isn't in the book. The only John Webster that i can see was b. Sheffield.
Gadget
-
Hi gadget,
im not sure if you still have access to the Football League Players' Records. Im looking for any info on my G.Grandfather, JAMES TILDESLEY. I know that he was born in 1881 in Halesowen. He played for Newcastle united, Middlesbrough and Leeds. Any info you could give me would be great.
-
Hi asolomio and welcome :)
I still have the listings but it's very small print so I'll have to get my magnifying glass out and get back to you - probably tomorrow if that's OK :)
Newcastle and Leeds -not sure about that ;D ;D ;D
Gadget
-
James (Jim) Tildesley
Right Back
Born: Halesowen: 07-10-1881
Jim began his career with his home town club Halesowen St John, before he joined First Division Newcastle United in February 1903. He played 21 league games + 1 FA Cup game before joining Middlebrough in September 1906. He played 23 league and 2 F.A. Cup games, but mainly spent time in the reserves before moving on to Leeds City in 1909. At Leeds he only played 5 league games and 1 FA Cup game, less than a year later he moved to non-league Luton Town
His brother Thomas Tildesley was also on Newcastles books
-
Thanks duck. I have that info already. Is that from the book? im not sure where i came across it. i had read somewhere that he spent time at aston villa but im not 100% on that.
-
asolomio
What other information do you require ??
Can I suggest you contact each individual club, most have a historian/archivist, who should be able to assist with further information and photographs
Kind regards
Simon
PS. My wife has a load of Halesowen Tildesleys in her tree
-
Hello Gadget
Could you please check if there are any details for Ernest Turner, born 1898 Brithdir, Glamorgan, played for Merthyr Town in the 1920s and Southampton around 1925. I would appreciate any info
Regards Roy
-
Hi Gadget
A request here that is very close to your limit of research but could you please check for Albert 'Bert' Hayes who played for Wolves & Wrexham during 1938/39
Best wishes
Roy
-
Hi Gadget
Idris Charles Henry Turner, born 1915 Brithdir, Glamorgan, played fullback for Sutton Town & WBA between 1936-1944; I would appreciate any information.
Regards, Roy
-
Hello Gadget
Could you please check if there are any details for Ernest Turner, born 1898 Brithdir, Glamorgan, played for Merthyr Town in the 1920s and Southampton around 1925. I would appreciate any info
Regards Roy
Hi Roy
What I have is
Ernest Taylor, b. 1898, Birthdir, d. 1951.
Played Inside Right/Centre Forward for:
Bargoed
Caerphilly
1922-24 Merthyr Town (110 appearances, 32 goals)
1925 Southampton (10 appearances, 3 goals)
Gadget
Getting the Hayes and Turners mixed up - nothing on the Bert Hayes. Could he have played after 1939 ???
-
Hi Gadget
Idris Charles Henry Turner, born 1915 Brithdir, Glamorgan, played fullback for Sutton Town & WBA between 1936-1944; I would appreciate any information.
Regards, Roy
Hi again
Nothing on Charles. I assume he didn't play for the WBA first team as only players who played in the league are listed.
Gadget
-
thanks Gadget; every bit of info helps to build a picture.
best wishes, Roy
-
hello Gadget
I wonder if you could look up brothers Albert & Jack Jarvis. Albert signed for QPR in 1913 while Jack played for Aston Villa in 1912. I would appreciate any details.
Regards, Roy
-
Hi Gadget
Can you tell me if there's a James Douglas Wright listed. The only info I have if that he was married in 1940.
Thanks
Jay
-
hello Gadget
I wonder if you could look up brothers Albert & Jack Jarvis. Albert signed for QPR in 1913 while Jack played for Aston Villa in 1912. I would appreciate any details.
Regards, Roy
Sorry, Roy. Nothing on either of them
-
Hi Gadget
Can you tell me if there's a James Douglas Wright listed. The only info I have if that he was married in 1940.
Thanks
Jay
Hi Jay
There's a James (Jim) Wright and a John Douglas Wright - could you give some idea of his whereabouts, please.
Gadget
-
Hi Gadget
Sorry I meant to say he was married in Newcastle.
Cheers
Jay
-
Hi Gadget
Sorry I meant to say he was married in Newcastle.
Cheers
Jay
Hi Jay
Just wondering if this might be him then:
John Douglas (Doug) Wright
b. Rochford 29 April 1917, d. 1992
Played Right and Left Half
1 cap for England
Played Chelmsford City (non-league)
Then:
1936-37 Southend Utd (31 games, 2 goals)
1938-46 Newcastle Utd (74 games, 1 goal)
1948-54 Lincoln City (233 games, 2 goals)
Then Blyth Spartans
Looks like he was in the right area at the right time and then returned to play for Blyth at the end of his career :)
Gadget
-
Hi Gadget
It is him ;D
My info is from my early days of research. I was told his name as the husband of a cousin of a granma.
Have just checked their marriage in the GRO index & it was John D not James D!
Thanks for checking & the info.
Have found somemore info & a photo of him by googling.
Jay
-
Hi Gadget,
Could you please check to see if my great uncle Harry HALL is listed in your book.
- born 1897 in Southwell, Notts
- died 1924 in Beeston, Notts
I know from his son's birth in Nottingham (1923) that he was a footballer, but for what team I have no idea. In all likelihood he won't be there but if you could check it would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Alexander
-
Hi Alexander
There are three Harry Halls mentioned but none of them match the criteria that you've given.
Sorry
Gadget
-
Thank you for checking, Gadget.
-
Hi Gadget,
Do you have anything on a Michael Swarbrick - reputed to be an outside left who played for Fleetwood, Blackpool and Preston NE between 1910 - 1915?
Thanks,
jds1949
-
Hello Gadget
I wonder if you could please check in your footballing bible if brothers Albert Turner and Cyril Turner, born Brithdir, played for Cardiff City, possibly during 1920/30s ‘ish’. A third brother Charles Turner also born in Brithdir had trials with Chelsea in April 1935. Could you please check if he actually played for them?
Appreciate any help
regards, Roy
-
Hi Gadget,
Do you have anything on a Michael Swarbrick - reputed to be an outside left who played for Fleetwood, Blackpool and Preston NE between 1910 - 1915?
Thanks,
jds1949
Interesting - I have
a William Swarbrick who played outside left for Fleetwood and the played 4 games for PNE in 1912-1913
a Lewis Swarbrick who played outside left for Blackpool in 1903
a James (Jimmy) Swarbrick (b. Lytham St Annes in 1881) who played outside left for
Blackpool Red Star
Marton Combination
Blackpool Etruruans
1901-1902 Blackburn Rovers, Accrington Stanley, Brentford
1905-1906 Grimsby Town
1907-1908 Oldham Athletic. Southport Central, Stoke, Port Vale, Swansea Town
No Michael though. It might be that he didn't play for the first team :-\
Gadget
-
Hello Gadget
I wonder if you could please check in your footballing bible if brothers Albert Turner and Cyril Turner, born Brithdir, played for Cardiff City, possibly during 1920/30s ‘ish’. A third brother Charles Turner also born in Brithdir had trials with Chelsea in April 1935. Could you please check if he actually played for them?
Appreciate any help
regards, Roy
Hello Roy
I don't have Albert or Cyril born Brithdir or anywhere near in my book. I have Alberts b. Sheffield and Blackpool and a Cyril born Berkshire. Yours may not have played for the first team and therefore not listed.
I have a Charles Turner b. Newport 1919 - played for Ebbw Vale, Newport County, Swansea Town and Yeovil
Gadget
-
Gadget,
thanks for that. It is a bit of a mystery -
Extract from The Blackpool Times & Fylde Observer – Saturday 21st April 1917
Prominent Footballer’s Death Reported from Front
The death is reported from the front of Michael Swarbrick, who was a reserve outside left for Preston North End a year or two ago. He was a native of Fleetwood, for whose club he played prior to going to Deepdale, and he had also been in the service of Blackpool.
The mystery being that there is no Michael Swarbrick listed on the CWGC site and no medal card for a Michael Swarbrick. Perhaps there is a connection with William?
jds1949
-
The CWGC does have a William Swarbrick, on 27 March 1917 aged 29. Acting Bombadier, Royal Garrison Artillery.
Service No - 79776
So he would have been born circa 1888.
I'll draw this to Simon, the PNE mascot's attention to see if he can find out anything.
Gadget
Added - further evidence suggests that William matches the criteria
-
The family that I think is William's is on the 1901 at RG13/3974/157/5
William is down as Geo W Swarbrick, aged 12
Gadget
-
The only Swarbrick to play first team football for Preston North End was William, born 1890, Preston. He played 3 games for the club in 1912 before being released. One of the games he played was against Manchester United and he put two past them ;D ;D ;D
He doesn't appear to have played for any other professional clubs
Simon
-
Hi Gadget
That's not the answer I was looking for; strangely enough I have just got in from Cardiff library where I browsed the old newspapers on film. The first film I loaded was the South Wales Football Echo and on the very first page dated Saturday August 27, 1938 was a photogrph of C. Turner, Cardiff City winger who scored City's goal to earn them a 1-1 draw with Exeter City.
Oddly enough he didn't feature in any game that season, although another Brithdir born player, Bill Bassett was a firm ficture in the team.
I also have copies of two photographs of him training with the City
Regards, Roy
-
He played 3 games for the club in 1912 before being released.
Gadget is correct, William Swarbrick played 4 times for PNE, none of them in 1912 ??? ???
1912/13 Season Div II
Apr 12 1913 PNE 1 v 0 Leicester Fosse (No.11)
1913/14 Season Div I
Nov 5 1913 PNE 0 v 1 Liverpool (No.11)
Mar 5 1914 PNE 4 v 2 Man Utd (No 11) scored two
Mar 21 1914 Liverpool 3 v 1 PNE (No 11)
-
The William who died on the 27th March 1917 was the son of William and Margaret Swarbrick and had been employed as a cowman on a local farm before the war.
George William Swarbrick, the footballer, served in the Liverpool Regiment and - I'm pretty sure - survived the war.
I can not find any Michael Swarbrick in either 1901 or 1911.
All a bit of a mystery.
jds1949
-
I'm wondering if the William/Michael was a confusion. I'm not sure how one would prove anything but William's death reported on the CWGC in late March 1917 all points to the Michael/William mix up :-\
Simon - is there anything in your archives about William's death in WW1?
Gadget
-
Simon - is there anything in your archives about William's death in WW1?
Sorry Gadget, there is no mention of death, I believe he went to Fleetwood Town after PNE
-
Dannemois,
I have waited in anticipation for you to reply to my request for the name of the cemetery. I can understand you wanting to carry on with your subject of Tredomen but although say you can't remember the location of the headstone, which is quite obvious, you must surely remember where the cemetery is located (the name of the town, village) as you were searching for for something related to your subject matter.
As this is a forum that relies on the good will of all members and the free circulation of information by its members I can't understand why you have refused to help me in this request when it seems that you receive help from others on this site.
When you posted a request about D Shutt I was willing to help and give you information about him and why he died in Canada and the circumstances which led thereto.
I sincerely hope you will reconsider your refusal for the location of this cemetery.
Himalaya
-
Hi Himalaya
Is your message anything to do with professional footballers?
If not, it might be better to send Roy a PM rather than get other info confused on my occupational offer thread.
Gadget
-
Thanks Gadget
I have just e-mailed Himalaya with a PM. Having re-read his post on the cemtery query he simple did not ask for the name of the cemetery and I in my haste thought he was asking for the stone location. This I hope as now been sorted in my PM.
Best wishes, Roy
-
Gadget,
I have found two other references to Michael Swarbrick. The first is this:
Extract from the 1910 Land Tax Returns
181, Skeffington Road
Occupied by Michael Swarbrick
Owned by Daniel Sumner, 1 Albert Road, Preston
Rented at £11 14s 0d p.a. paid weekly.
BB&S 2up and 2 down in good condition.
Valuation: £145
The second is this:
National Football Museum
Lancashire Evening Post article - Tuesday 12th December 2006 Written by Peter Evans
By the end of the war PNE first teamers John Barbour and John Ford and reserve players Tom Saul and Michael Swarbrick had been killed. “They gave their all in a sterner battle for England”.
The first one would seem to suggest that a man named Michael Swarbrick was living in Preston in 1910 - even though he does not seem to be listed in the 1911 census. The second would seem to suggest that Peter Evans had access to some record which had Michael Swarbrick listed as a PNE player.
I'm now going to see if I can find a birth record for him. Any further suggestions welcomed,
jds1949
-
Update,
No record on Free bmd [national] and Lancashire bmd for any birth of a Michael Swarbrick between 1880 and 1900.
James b. 1881, [Robert] Lewis b. 1881 and George William Swarbrick b. 1888 were brothers, all three the sons of Robert and Elizabeth [Lewis] Swarbrick.
Now the interesting bit:
Information from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission:
Robert Lewis Swarbrick, private, 306411, 2nd/8th Battalion, The King’s Liverpool Regiment, who died on Friday 26th October 1917, aged 37.
He was the son of Elizabeth Swarbrick of 23, Thorburn Grove, St John’s Estate, Blackpool, Lancashire, and the late Robert Swarbrick.
Commemorated at Tyne Cot Memorial, Zonnebeke, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium.
Grave reference: Panel 31 to 34 and 162 and 162A and 163A.
However - the dates don't match Lewis was killed in October 1917 and Michael was reported as killed in April 1917.
This just gets stranger and stranger.
jds1949
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Possibly Michael Swarbrick was reported missing presumed dead but survived.
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I have also checked to see if there is a medal card for any man named Michael Swarbrick - there isn't. I have been researching Swarbrick families for 25 years and I have data on 60+ Swarbrick families - I don't have anything on a Michael Swarbrick that would fit.
Curiouser and curiouser.
jds1949
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Hi jds
Simon has already said that .....................
The only Swarbrick to play first team football for Preston North End was William, born 1890, Preston. He played 3 games for the club in 1912 before being released. One of the games he played was against Manchester United and he put two past them ;D ;D ;D
He doesn't appear to have played for any other professional clubs
Simon
Simon still works for PNE and has access to their records.
The George William in the 1901 census that I referred to, later became a professional footballer.
There doesn't appear to be a birth registration for a Michael Swarbrick (variations) and he doesn't appear in any censuses :-\
Gadget
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jds1949
A quote from the book, Loud & Proud, The Complete History of the Lilywhites
"North Enders, John Barbour and John Ford were killed in the early stages of the war as were North End reserve players Tom Saul and Michael Swarbrick"
I will contact the Club Historian later today
Michael Swarbrick, who was a reserve outside left for Preston North End a year or two ago.
The same position William Swarbrick played ??? ???
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Duck,
the other brother, James, was also an outside left - obviously ran in the family!
I look forward to whatever you can find out.
jds1949
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Hi Gadget,
What a great offer, thankyou!
Looking for info on my gt grandfather George Thompson Reay, born 1900 in Chirton near Wallsend, Northumberland. He played for Kettering Town in the 1920's, aswell as Raithrovers, Burton we believe, and Blyth Spartans. He is believed to have started his career playing for Percy Main Colliery in Howden. Any info on him would be great, thankyou.
We do not know ALL the clubs he played for, but there were about five or six.
I hope this is enough info. Thanks again for this kind offer :)
Matt
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Hi Matt :)
I'm ever so sorry but he's not in my book.
The book only covers players who played in the first teams for clubs that were in the English/Welsh League 1888-39.
I don't think any of the clubs that you mentioned were in the League at that time :-\
It might be worth contacting one of the clubs that he played for.
Gadget
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Gadget,
Doh! Sorry your search was unsuccessful. Think I'll have to grill my gt uncles again lol.
Thanks very much for taking the time to look him up for me :)
Matt :)
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I have spoken to the PNE Club Historian and he says that Michael and William Swarbrick are definately two different players
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Duck,
Thanks for confirming that - so we now know that Michael Swarbrick played for PNE, possibly lived at 181, Skeffington Road, Preston in 1910 and was reported killed in April 1917.
He doesn't appear to have any birth record
he doesn't appear in the 1901 or 1911 census - or at least he has not been found
he doesn't have a service record or a medal card
A bit of a mystery!
jds1949
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I've checked the Scottish births for him and looked at the BMDs to see if any of them had M as a middle name, etc. Were there Swarbricks in Ireland :-\
Is there any chance that it was a nickname or he took it as a professionals name because he might have shared a first name with one of the other Swarbricks.
Gadget
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Can you find any record for Arthur Starkey playing for Leicester Fosse? He was born in 1888, so I guess he would have played around 1908 - 1918.
Many thanks
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Duck,
- so we now know that Michael Swarbrick played for PNE, possibly lived at 181, Skeffington Road, Preston in 1910
181 Skeffington Road is very close to the ground (200yards), I've just been to have a look, at that time it was the road that led to the east side of the ground
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Gadget,
There was at least one Swarbrick family in Scotland - I shall check them - there may have been some in Ireland, there was one family at least there in the mid-19th Century.
What's really bothering me is the lack of any medal card. Even if he had been Scottish or Irish - if he served in the British Army he should have had a medal card.
jds1949
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Can you find any record for Arthur Starkey playing for Leicester Fosse? He was born in 1888, so I guess he would have played around 1908 - 1918.
Many thanks
Just bringing this up as I nearly missed it amidst the Swarbricks - will check later - was this Leicester City? If not, he won't be in my book :-\
Gadget
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Leicester Fosse became Leicester City, not sure when, but I think it was after the date I gave you.
Ginge28
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- was this Leicester City? If not, he won't be in my book :-\
Until 1919, Leicester City were called Leicester Fosse, they joined the Football League in 1894, gaining promotion to Div I in 1908 (one season only)
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Ginge28
Can I suggest you phone Leicester City and ask for the email address of the clubs historian, he/she will certainly be able to help you
Simon
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My book has a whole long list for Arthur Starkey :)
b Carlisle Coalville. Played Outside Right
Huggglescole St John's
Gresley Rovers
Coalville Amateurs
Hugglescole Utd
Coalvile Swifts
1910 onwards
Leicester Fosse (8 games)
Coalville Town
Ibstock Albion
Coalville Swifts
Shepshed Albion
Coalvile Swifts
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Gadget
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Gadget and Simon,
I did e-mail Leicester City's historian a few months ago, but have had no reply. When I found this thread, I thought I had a second bite at the cherry. Thank you for the information, but if "b Carlisle" means that this Arthur Starkey was born in Carlisle, then it is not my grandfather as he was born in Coalville. Can you confirm please.
Ginge28
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Hi Ginge
I've had another look through the magnifying glass at this 3 pt print ::)
He was born Coalville not Carlisle
Sorry.
All other clubs, etc. are correct :)
Gadget
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Thank you Gadget. You are providing a fantastic service.
Ginge28
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Thank you Gadget. You are providing a fantastic service.
Ginge28
Thanks :)
I try to provide the best sevice that I can, Ginge :)
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Duck,
- so we now know that Michael Swarbrick played for PNE, possibly lived at 181, Skeffington Road, Preston in 1910
181 Skeffington Road is very close to the ground (200yards), I've just been to have a look, at that time it was the road that led to the east side of the ground
I've just been to Preston Library, in the 1910 Barretts Directory of Preston, R. Swarbrick, Weaver, is listed as head of household for 181 Skeffington Road
There is no mention of a Michael Swarbrick in the Preston Roll of Honour for WW1
Now this is where the plot thickens, I am led to believe that a Michael Swarbrick played one match for PNE in the 1918 - 1919 Principle Tournament - Lancashire Section. Throughout the war an A. Swarbrick also played for the club
I am now waiting for details of the 1918 - 1919 match
Simon
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Duck
"Michael Swarbrick played one match for PNE in the 1918 - 1919 Principle Tournament"
If that is the case then the report of his death was wrong - which would explain the lack of an entry on the CWGC site, but lead to further complications elsewhere.
I knew that there was no Michael on the Preston Roll - I've already been through that, but thank you for looking. I shall try and chase up the R. Swarbrick weaver reference next week.
Thanks again for your help - much appreciated,
jds1949
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I'm not sure if this is still relevant or not, but PNE's Club Historian has just sent me the following on William Swarbrick
SWARBRICK,William Born Blackpool c.1892
5’7” 10st Outside-left
Twenty-one year old Swarbrick, declared by some judges as the best winger in the Lancashire Combination, was signed from Fleetwood Town on 21st February 1913, basically as cover for North End’s England Amateur international left-winger, George Barlow. Swarbrick as a lad learning his trade, had previously had spells with Barrow, Blackpool, Rossendale United, Southport Central and Bacup before Fleetwood. When he was at Blackpool as a 17-year-old they must have thought that he had promise for he was still on their League Retain List when signed from Fleetwood. To say Fleetwood missed him is an understatement as they lost their very next game 12-0, away at Eccles Borough! First reports of Swarbrick, after his Central League debut against Rochdale, were that “small though he is, he was able to hold his own against a stout defence and his centreing of the ball was sound”. Within a couple of months he made his Preston North End league debut, against Leicester Fosse on April 12th. Although not an eye catching game North End actually gained promotion back to Division One after defeating “the Fosse” by 1-0, with two games still to play. “Perseus”, the scribe of the local Lancashire Daily Post, wrote of him “when he thickens out a little and gains power he should make a most acceptable winger”. With Preston going on to win the Second Division Championship, the Club rewarded the players with what was the Club’s first ever continental tour during May 1913. Swarbrick, after just one first-team game, was one of the fourteen man squad to embark on the three-week tour and actually scored North Ends opening goal in a 7-2 win over Ajax of Amsterdam. The following week he was once again on the mark, against Strasborg and in the 11-2 hammering of Basle, in Switzerland, he bagged three goals. However, even with a successful tour behind him he still could not oust Barlow from the league team and only found himself in contention when Barlow was ill, injured or if the game was played mid-week when amateur Barlow could not get away from work. One such mid-week game was at Deepdale against Manchester United (5/3/1914), when Swarbrick scored twice in a 4-2 win, his only league goals of his career. Despite his goals he somehow attracted negative press. Although he was a typical runner and dodger with good pace he apparently had an annoying tendency to double back. The sports reporter claimed that there was “only one road for a winger - the direct road, either on the outside or by cutting in”! Needless to say Swarbrick was dropped for the next game but returned for what turned out to be his last league appearance on 21/3/1914, away at Liverpool. He received an ankle injury early in the game and had to leave the field of play, North End having to soldier on with ten men. They lost. Once recovered from his injury he found himself languishing in the reserves so he re-signed for Fleetwood Town and played for them before and after World War One. He later played in the Welsh League with Bridgend. Whilst with Bridgend he represented The Welsh League versus The Southern League. He married in January 1934 and settled in Marton, near Blackpool.
PNE League Appearances: 4 Goals: 2
Trivia.
Two of William’s four brothers were also “sportsmen”. Brother Jimmy, who had played for Oldham Athletic, Grimsby Town and Swansea Town, once won the Welsh Crown Green Bowling Championship whilst brother Tommy once won the British Crown Green Bowling Championship.
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No Swarbricks born Blackpool Jan 1890-Dec 1893
I think we have to think that it was a nickname or he was from outside the area.
Maybe it's time to put a request on the Lancashire board as I've had complaints via PM about the number of 'new replies' that are coming up :-\
I might have to lock this thread and start another :-\
Gadget
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I don't like to upset people by the number of new replies that are coming up so
the new thread is here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,471845.0.html
Gadget :)
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Gadget if people are complaining then they need to unsubscribe so they don't get notification.
Cheers
Jay