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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Denbighshire => Wales => Denbighshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Morganllan on Sunday 04 April 10 01:03 BST (UK)
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Hello
I'm very new to this so hope I'm not asking too much in one request? :-[
I am interested in marriages at Ruabon of Beesley and Green family members.
In particular these happy couples:
Edward Beesley married Elizabeth Parry in 1864
John Green married Mary Savage in 1838
James Green married Anne Edwards in 1867
Thank you for any help you can offer
Morgan
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Hi Morgan :)
Welcome to Rootschat
If you can wait until Tuesday, i can look up my copies of the parish registers.
I'm away at the moment.
Gadget
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Thanks, Gadget
That would be great
:)
morgan
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Hi again
Ruabon Marriage by Banns
22 December 1838 John Green, bachelor, collier. Residing at Morton Above.
Father - William Green, collier
and
Mary Savage, spinster. Residing at Morton Above.
No father's name given which often suggests that she was illegitimate. The only way to confirm this is to obtain the marriage cert:
Dec quarter, 1838, Wrexham RD, vol 27, page 4000
The only Mary Savage baptism in Ruabon is 3 July 1825. Parents - William (collier) and Hannah Savage of Ponkey. This is a bit late for an 1838 marriage as she would have been only 13 if she was baptised as a new born. I see from the 1851 that Mary was born circa 1815. They do have a daughter Hannah though.
It would be worth obtaining the marriage certificate.
The other marriages are a too late for my records but these are the refs to the marriage certificates:
Beesley/Parry: June quarter, 1864, Wrexham, vol 11b, page 554
Green/Edwards: March quarter, 1867, Wrexham, vol 11b, page 410
Regards
Gadget
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Savage appears to be an unusual name in the Ruabon registers and this might be relevant as Mary gives her birth place as Ruabon.
There are a Robert and Mary Savage having children at Morton Above :
Baptisms of children to Robert and Mary ~
8 Jan 1804 William* (born 19 Dec 1803)
2 April 1806 Susannah (born 5 March 1806)
1 March 1809 Thomas (born 16 January 1809)
*William married Hannah Phillips on 29 January 1825. I assume that these were the parents of the Mary wh was baptised in July 1825, previously mentioned
Gadget
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Marriage of Robert and Mary~
Ruabon Sept 20 1802
Robert Savage of Wrexham and Mary Jones of Ruabon
There are three other Savage females mentioned in the 1802-1812 marriages - Ann, Catherine and Jane. None of them appear to have been baptised in St Mary's, Ruabon though :-\
Gadget
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:)
Baptism, Ruabon ~
5 February 1813 John Green son of William (collier) and Sarah. Living Rhosllannerchrugog
Marriage, Ruabon
14 September 1801 William Green and Sarah Griffith, both of Ruabon parish
Gadget
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A possible baptism of William Green:
Ruabon
31 January 1779 William son of John and Sarah Green of Morton Above
There are a few Sarah Griffith(s) but the most likely baptism is:
13 Sept 1778 Sarah daughter of Richard and Elizabeth Griffith of Morton Above
Gadget
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;D
Hello Gadget
What a lot of information you have found about Green and Savage families in Moreton Above!
Thank you very much for such a comprehensive reply.
Re John Green born 1813 or 1816, I think 1841 census said the 1816 John was born in Ireland, which fits with family lore that Greens came from Ireland. In this case he wouldn't be the one baptised in St Marys, but I'll keep an open mind for now.
I'll add the marriage to my list of certificates I need!
Thanks again
Morgan
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Hi Morgan
There was no 1841 for Ruabon - can you give the ref to the 1841 that you have. All the info that I have from the 1851-1881 censuses fits with the one born in Rhos, Ruabon - including the son, James, who married Ann
Gadget
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If you are referring to a John Green, b.c. 1816, Ireland, in Abergele on the 1841
HO107/1403/2/13/18
I think you have the wrong person:
1. 1851-1881 censues have him, with wife Mary and children born Rhos or Ruabon parish (with one mistake!)
2. the 1841 one in Abergele was an Excise man. Yours was a collier ::)
Gadget
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Here are the census details in case you don't have them:
1851:
Rhos HO107/2503/30/43
Green
John, 35, coal miner
Mary, 36
James, 8
Hannah, 4
William, 1
all born Ruabon parish
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1861
Rhos
RG9/4283/5/30
Green
John, 46, coal miner
Mary, 46
James, 19, coal miner
William, 12, coal miner
Sarah, 8
John, 5
Error on page - all are down as born -do- to a lady born Ruthin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1871
Hall Street, Rhos
RG10/5653/128/37
Green
John, 55, coal carrier, b. Ruabon
Mary, 56, b. Wrexham (!)
William, 21, coal miner, b. Ruabon
John, 15, coal miner , b. Ruabon
Next door is son James and wife Ann (same reference as above):
Green
James, 28, coal miner
Ann, 24 or 27
John, 10 months
All born Ruabon
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1881
8 Love Lane, Ruabon
RG11/5513/32/9
Green
John, 65, coal carrier
Mary, 65
William, grdson,4
All born Rhos
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
I think you're right about John and the spurious Abergele connection :-[
Hadn't checked this for myself, but it seemed to fit with the Ireland story. Therefore the Ireland connection must be a lot further back, if it is true.
Interestingly in 1881 John and 2 of his sons (John and James) were all living in Love Lane.
Re Mary Savage, you're probably right about her being illegitimate, as I think her father wold have been named even if was deceased.
Thanks again
Morgan
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Re your Beesleys:
I'm not sure that you have Elizabeth Beesley nee Parry on the 1871. She's with her parents:
Hill Street, Cefn Mawr
RG10/5652/163/ 51
John Parry, 61, stone cutter, b. Bilston
Eliza Parry, 50, b. b. Cefn Mawr
Richard Thos Parry, 18, forgeman, b. -do-
Eliza Parry, 12, b. -do-
Charles S Parry, 10, b. -do-
Elizabeth Beasley, daughter, married, 26, b. -do-
John Beasley,grdson,4, b. -do-
Mary Beasley, grddaughter, 2, b. -do-
Robert Beasley, grdson, 8 months, b. -do-
Jonathan Hague or Haque, son in law, 28, coal miner , b. Ashton
Mary Ann -do-, daughter, 22, b. Cefn Mawr
I see from the 1881 in Prestwich (RG11/4029/16/25) that Edward was born Heaton Norris, Cheshire, circa 1844.
Gadget
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I can find a Thomas Beesley that fits Edward's age/place of birth on the 1851 but not an Edward - possibly changed his name :-\
Census ref is:
1851 - Gorton, Lancs - HO107/2219/365/12
Parents were a John and Sarah Beesley
Gadget
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Hello Gadget
Thank you for Beesley census info and all your sterling help. ;D
I checked 1881 and found a Thomas Beesley born Heaton Norris in 1845 working as a gardener domestic servant in Cheadle. RG11 3484/89 page 36. This record shows HN in Lancashire whereas the Edward Beesley 1881 record shows HN in Cheshire!
I guess there would be a family connection between Thomas and Edward as both Beesley and born in the same place. In BMD I found Edward born in 1844 (Mar Q), Thomas born 1845 (Jun Q), and John born 1846 (Jun Q) at Stockport district which covers Heaton Norris.
I have a fairly good view of Edward Beesley once he arrived in Wales but have not been able to trace him prior to that.
Best wishes and thanks again,
Morgan
P.S. Please do you know anyone who would have the later Ruabon PR for Beesley/Parry and James Green marriages?
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Hi Morgan
The best I can offer is for you to send a PM to Paul:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4691
Give him the link to this thread and, if he is going to the Records Office, he might be able to help :-\
He's very kind :)
Gadget
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Hello Morgan, Bridget :)
Ruabon marriage May 21 1864.
Edward Beesley. 21. Bachelor. Forgeman. Cefn Mawr. Father, James. Labourer.
Elizabeth Parry(x) 20. Spinster. Cefn Mawr. Father, John. Quarryman.
Witnesses. Henry Pritchard(x) & Maria Pritchard(x).
Ruabon Feb 2 1867.
James Green(x) 24. Bachelor. Collier. Rhosllanerchrugog. Father, John. Jagger
Ann Edwards(x) 25. Spinster. """"""""""""""""""" Father, David. Coker
Witnesses. Benjamin Jones & Sarah Savage(x)
(x)=did not sign made mark.
Paul.
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Hello Gadget and Paul,
Thank you both very much indeed...
...for all your help with the Beesley and Green lookups.
You've both helped me tremendously! ;D
Diolch yn fawr
Morgan
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Thanks Morgan.
I enjoy helping out with Gadget :).
We should start up our own Genealogy look up business ??? We could call It Gadget & Son ;D ;D