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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Cathymjp on Wednesday 07 April 10 10:04 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am assisting a friend to investigate the war records of his family. There is a medal record for Hugh but sadly does not appear to be a service record. Hugh served with the Northumerland Fusiliers and his reg no. was 48008 (Private)
Under Remarks - Dis 392XvI (I think)
SWB list 0/4639/1
Also listed Victory and British medal
Would any of this information tell me which battalion he served in?
Thank you
Cathy ;D ;D
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Hello Cathy,
He was discharged due to sickness or wounds. King's Regulations Para 392 (xvi).
The Silver War Badge Rolls should tell you when he enlisted, when he was discharged and his battalion, but, like the other medal rolls, they are only available at Kew.
Phil
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Hi Phil,
Thank you for the information. It looks like a visit to Kew. I must admit I have never heard of the Silver War Badge Records before. This might help me with some research of my own.
With thanks
Cathy ;D ;D
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I have now been given a picture of Hugh in uniform, his discharge certificate dated 23rd September 1919 and a very nice tapestry with his medals which he made whilst recovering from his wounds in a hospital in Liverpool.
His family would like to know more about the Northumberland Fusiliers role in WW1. However, on looking at his cap badge when I type in his regiment the badge shown does not look like the one in the photograph. Could someone please help to identify it please.
Am I right in thinking this photograph was taken early on in the war. Someone told me that the brow bands on the caps had to be amended as when they reflected they made a target for the enemy. Hugh's cap band seems to be an early one to me. Also his amunition belt looks as if it might be made of leather - again something that was altered during the war to canvas.
I have not managed to visit Kew yet to consult the Silver War Badge Rolls mentioned by Phil, so do not know when he enrolled.
Thank you
Cathy
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Royal Artillery. The visible bandolier also points to RA.
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Hi Ainslie,
Thank you for identifying the badge for me.
Having looked at the tapestry closely and the cap badge, the tapestry shows a gun emblem and is in fact the Royal Artillery cap badge including latin motto.
However, the discharge certificate and the medal record say the Northumberland Fusiliers - has he been in both regiments?
Cathy
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The photo looks as though it was taken early in his service - cap very stiff, and collar tailored [privately, for smartness]. Once in the field the cap would lost its stiffener, and the tunic would not look so pressed!
I do not know about chinstraps [I think brow bands are on horses!] and shininess.
Are you sure you have the right medal index card for Hugh? Usually a transfer will show up on the card.
Did he survive the war?
Depending on where he lived, he may be listed, with details of his unit, on the Absent Voters List at his home town. Some survive, other, as in Liverpool, do not. The survivors may be at a local authority office or main library.
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Hi Ainslie,
You are absolutely right about having the right Hugh - I do have the right Hugh but having just done some back research he had a brother called Reginald George Barlow who served in the Royal Artillery so we are in fact dealing with two brothers. The tapestry and picture are Reginald George - I can just make out the writing on one of the medals and his regimental number. The family obviously do not know this so there is one mystery solved.
Only the discharge certifcate relates to Hugh.
I have downloaded his Reginald's medal record.
+with three dots R.F.A./219B 23846 - Victory
Ditto - British
15 Star R2a/8AB 5988
Theatre of war first served in 1. France
Date of entry therein 12.06.1915
Under remarks
R.F.A/219B enclo 4A(shows Reventie?) F.G.C.A. 25.07.1915 (what does this mean)?
Both brothers survived the war I think.
Thanks for your help Ainslie
Cathy
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Reginald G Barlow was reverted(busted) from bombardier (Cpl) to gunner by A Field General Courts Martial (FGCM)on the date 25/7/15
Looks like he must have got in trouble over something?
More intrigue for you :)
Ady
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Hi Ady,
Thanks you for that information. Well there is another twist now, the medals do not belong to Reginald or Hugh but their brother Jeffrey. They are mounted in a case and very difficult to read but at last found a magnifying glass and made out the regt. no. Jeffrey was also in the R.A. Also he has a short Service record. Sadly the records for his brothers have not survivied .
I think my friends are going to find this all very interesting.
Thanks for all the help.
Cathy
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Latin motto: UBIQUE is the battle honour meaning 'everywhere'.
QUO FAS ET GLORIA DUCUNT is the motto - 'where right and glory lead'.
Both are on the cap badge [with very few exceptions].
A
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I'd put the pic at 1917/18...He has tidied up his collar and added a hook and eye to fasten it...Stiff caps came back in the latter years to look a bit smart again after the Gor Blimey and the Trench Cap...
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I have now been given a picture of Hugh in uniform, his discharge certificate dated 23rd September 1919 and a very nice tapestry with his medals which he made whilst recovering from his wounds in a hospital in Liverpool.
His family would like to know more about the Northumberland Fusiliers role in WW1. However, on looking at his cap badge when I type in his regiment the badge shown does not look like the one in the photograph. Could someone please help to identify it please.
Am I right in thinking this photograph was taken early on in the war. Someone told me that the brow bands on the caps had to be amended as when they reflected they made a target for the enemy. Hugh's cap band seems to be an early one to me. Also his amunition belt looks as if it might be made of leather - again something that was altered during the war to canvas.
I have not managed to visit Kew yet to consult the Silver War Badge Rolls mentioned by Phil, so do not know when he enrolled.
Thank you
Cathy
I'm afraid you have been told a couple of inaccurate tales there... :o ;)
Buttons and badges, on active service were allowed to dull so as not to draw fire. As for the chinstrap, ummm no...they just became unpolished due to the extingencies of war. For photos, home service and parades, they polished up!
The 1903 ptn leather ammunition bandolier was used by mounted troops into WW2. True, canvas ones did appear, but for the infantry, not mounted troops...
As for the SWB rolls, they will tell you when he was invalided out, not when he attested (signed up). There should also be a large certificate that came with the SWB as well
Oh and the white lanyard apparently moved from the right arm to the left later in the war for the RA
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The actual Medal Roll book for his campaign medals will give date of Enlistment
Ady
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Ady, Ainslie and Scrimnet thank you all very much for your help in unraveling these records I now have the medal record for Jeffrey Barlow.
Corps RFA Rank Gnr Reg No. 91289
X with4 dots Bdr.
Medals X 4 dots
Victory RFA/228B page 25562
British " "
15 Star RFA/9A2 page 6602
Theatre of War first served in (3) Egypt
Date of entry thereof 19.07.1915
On the rim of the medals it reads:- 91289 BMBR J. Barlow RA
Am I right in assuming that R F A stands for Royal Field Artillery?
What is the difference between the R F A and the R A?
Thanks
Cathy
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Cathy
Yes RFA Royal field Artillery :)
Found this online which may give the answer.
Ady
On 1 July 1899, the Royal Artillery was divided into three groups: the Royal Horse Artillery of 21 batteries and the Royal Field Artillery of 95 batteries comprised one group, while the coastal defence, mountain, siege and heavy batteries were split off into another group named the Royal Garrison Artillery of 91 companies. The third group continued to be titled simply Royal Artillery, and was responsible for ammunition storage and supply.
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During the First World War the Royal Artillery was made up of the Royal Horse Artillery, Royal Field Artillery and Royal Garrison Artillery. You can read more about them on this site:
http://www.1914-1918.net/
On the MIC, the x with dots is a form of asterisk, used for linking the entries for rank and the awards.
Very pleased you have been able to sort out your Barlows.
A
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Thank you Ady and Ainslie for your further help. A very interesting and informative site.
Cathy :D
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Hi Cathy, I know some time has passed since you posted this thread but very interested as Hugh, Reginald and Jeffrey Barlow are my husbands 2nd Great Uncles. Their sister Mabel is his Great Grandmother, who married William Myatt from Colton. Her daughter Joyce Greatrix is my husbands Grandmother. His dad would love to hear from any of his extended family!
Lisa Greatrix