RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Roscommon => Topic started by: johnd2 on Friday 30 April 10 21:14 BST (UK)
-
Hi
I am re searching my Irish family history and i have purchased a Roman catholic marriage record for my great grand parents that took place in the catholic parish of Kilbride in the county of Roscommon in 1868.
On the church marrige record it did not say at which church or the actual place in which the marrige took place.
What i would like to know is there a place called Kilbride,and what would be the name of the actual church and the place the marriage took place.Also would the marriage be registered at a civil registration office..
I have found some info on a web site that said Kilbride is now called Fourmile house but i am not sure. Or is Fourmilehouse an actual building? or a place.
I have difficulty understanding the way the Irish places are all linked ie civil parishes, catholic parishes,districts, townlands,Baronies.
I hope some one can help
Many thanks
John Duffy
-
Full civil registration started in Ireland in 1864, so there should be a marriage cert which will usually give more details than a parish transcript - see : 2 Minute Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html) for details on searches, ordering certs etc
The familysearch website which contains the BMD index is undergoing maintenance, so the searches are not reliable at the moment.
I presume the record you have is from the IFHF website ?
The RC parish of Kilbride seems to correspond to the civil parish of the same name and includes a number of townlands - see the Irish Times listing for the parish at : Kilbride Townlands (http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/townlands/index.cfm?fuseaction=TownlandsInCivil&civilparishid=2047&civilparish=Kilbride&citycounty=Roscommon)
Shane
-
It looks like the town of Four Mile House is the centre of the RC parish of Kilbride and probably where the parish church was located. The index of RC records at the National library lists the parish as 'Kilbride (Fourmilehouse)'.
Four Mile House is about 9km north of Roscommon town, see google map : Roscommon to Four Mile House (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Roscommon+town,+Ireland&daddr=four+mile+house&geocode=FUxMMgMdJQ2D_ykDkRBMTSNcSDFeUDQyW7pyXw%3BFVBvMwMdxsuC_ynH-BY19iNcSDGgJDKXqccACg&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=53.650743,-8.136063&sspn=0.16157,0.576096&ie=UTF8&ll=53.662747,-8.194084&spn=0.087679,0.293884&z=12)
The RC Church in the town is briefly mentioned at this link http://www.roscommonhistory.ie/Places/kilbride/kilbride.htm
Shane
-
I went to Kilbride in 2003 and drove up and down the main road because I couldn't find a town, just a church with a carpark, which was full to overflowing because I had hit upon the very day the bishop was holding confirmations. Later that day I asked the parish priest where the town was and he said there was no town. The church was used by all the scattered farmsteads roundabout. It was built in 1838 by a kind benefactor and before that the people met in the fields for Mass. It's quite near Strokestown, where the murder of Major Mahon took place and you drive along by desolate looking peat fields bye claytonbradley
-
thanks claytonbradley... I was wondering why I couldn't see any sign of a village or town at the location on the old OSI or more recent maps.
Shane
-
There are 2 graveyards, both quite a way away from the church, as seems to be usual in Ireland, but they have a list at the church of memorial inscriptions for the older one. I didn't find any names I was looking for, but they were very poor, so I wasn't expecting any. They also have some school records, but a bit later in date. The church is called St Brigid and the priest, Fr Browne, did say that a history of the church was planned, but I don't know if it came to fruition.bye, claytonbradley
-
John Duffy wrote “I have difficulty understanding the way the Irish places are all linked ie civil parishes, Catholic parishes,districts, townlands,Baronies”.
For maps and explanation of terms used in Irish research visit
Liam Byrne’s free Roscommon History website
http://www.roscommonhistory.ie/People/JohnHunter/Notes.pdf and
To find the Catholic parish and DED for all townlands in County Roscommon visit:
http://www.roscommonhistory.ie/People/JohnHunter/Index2.pdf
Free County Leitrim and County Roscommon source material available online:
http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=51430
-
I have difficulty understanding the way the Irish places are all linked ie civil parishes, catholic parishes,districts, townlands,Baronies.
Have a look at ROSCOMMON RESOURCES & LINKS (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,387040.0.html) at the top of this board for information on townlands, etc.
-
Hi
Many thanks Shane for the info.
I can't find any civil registration of there marriage in the Kibride parish on the family search BMD index as you say they are not reliable at the moment.
On the point about Fourmile house place do you or any one else know the name of the Roman Catholic church at Fourmile house i still dont't know its name.
Even if the marrige took place in a Catholic church would it still registered at a civil registered office.
Many thanks
Best wishes
John Duffy
-
From 1864 onwards all marriages came under civil registration so the 1868 one should be in the civil index. Hopefully LDS Pilot Site will soon be fixed but there are normally several reasons for not finding a marriage in the index such as name spelt differently or entry left out from index.
-
Have you done a “Google search” for “ Kilbride Catholic parish Roscommon Ireland”. It will show the names of the churches, photographs and details of the burial grounds in Kilbride Catholic parish.
The names of the two churches in Kilbride Catholic parish are:
St Brigid’s in Fourmile House, Ballinderry townland and
St Mary’s (Our Lady of Lourdes since 1959), Derrane townland
There is a current book “Elphin Diocese The Diocese of Elphin, People Places & Pilgrimage, Francis Beirne, 2000, ISBN 1 85607 299 1. It gives the history of parishes and churches in Elphin Diocese
Irish Civil marriage certificates are inexpensive. For details visit Schedule of Fees as provided by the General Register Office
Fees Payable by The Public To the General Register Office
http://www.groireland.ie/fees.htm
xx
If you provide names of the Bride and Groom I may be able to help.
-
Hi
Many thanks Shane for the info.
I can't find any civil registration of there marriage in the Kibride parish on the family search BMD index as you say they are not reliable at the moment.
...
Note the marriage reference on the Civil Index will not state Kilbride - both likely townlands (Ballinderry & Derrane) mentioned by johnros are in the Registration District of Roscommon, and this is what the index will include.
Shane
-
Hi
Many thanks Johnros for the info and also to Claytonbradley for the name of the church at Fourmile house.
I paid the 5 € for the marrige record from the IFHF website, but i cannot find them in the civil registration records.
There names are Partck Duffy and Margeret McKeon or McKeown hope you don't mind having a look for me John.
Many thanks
Regards
John Duffy
-
I found a possible match under the name Pat Duffy on the civil index :
Name: Pat Duffy
Registration District: Roscommon
Event Type: Marriage
Year: 1868
Volume Number: 18
Page Number: 297
I couldn't find any cross match for Margaret on the Civil Index but I did find a possible match for the marriage on the new extracted marriage section on familysearch under the name Bridget :
Marriage Date: 01 Oct 1868
Marriage Place: Kilgefin, Co. Roscommon, Ireland
Groom's Name: Pat Duffy / Age: 25 / Father: Pat Duffy
Bride's Name: Bridget Mckeon / Age : 18 / Father: John Mckeon
both were previously unmarried
As far as I can see, Kilgefin is quite close to Four Mile House - just over 7km to the east.
Shane
-
The LDS British Isles Records set of 16 CDs didn’t include the marriage of Patrick and Margaret. Your best bet is to buy the Civil marriage certificate (the photocopy of the entry in the register is cheaper and more accurate).
At the 1857 Griffith’s Valuatiom John McKeon occupied one acre of land and a house, each valued at five shillings in Fairymount townland Kilgefin Civil parish (Kilgefin Catholic parish). See the map at http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/MAPS/ballaghRC.html
Visit http://www.leitrim-roscommon.com/MAPS/ros_par.html to see the locations of Kilbride and Kilgefin Civil parishes. For easier to read maps check your local library for the Resource County Roscommon 2009 CD.
For details of change of occupiers of land in Fairymount townland, County Roscommon, visit http://www.roscommonhistory.ie/People/JohnHunter/Index2.pdf
At 1857 Griffith’s Valuation Patrick Duffy occupied 14 Acres worth seven pounds and 10 shillings and a house valued at ten shillings
-
Hi Shane & Johnros
I have a marriage record for Patrick Duffy and Margeret McKeon that took place on the 01 Oct 1868 in the parish of Kilbride. There is very little information on the record no fathers names or addresses or the name of the church. The other only info is the witnesses a Michael McKeon and a Catherine Cullen. i don't understand why they are not on a civil index so i could get the civil marriage certificate.
Its a coincidence that a Pat Duffy and a Bridget McKeon is married on the same day as the above people in the same area i would be greatful for any ideas what is going on here i wondered if they are related, is it possible that Pat Duffy is Patrick Duffy's brother and Bridget and Margeret McKeon are sisters.
I have info of their son Michael Duffy born on the 20 July 1869 Ballyleague district Roscommon and christened on the 25 July 1869 Kilbride parish Roman catholic are these one and the same place?
I would be geatful for any further help you may be able to give on the above.
Many thanks.
Best wishes
John Duffy
-
Do you have the actual civil birth certificate for the son Michael born in 1869? If not, am wondering if mother might not be listed as Bridget rather than Margaret (I have a church record where the priest wrote the wrong mother's name on a baptism and it was only becuase I thought the eldest son should also be in the register that the record was finally found).
-
I would think that the fact that it's the same grooms name, same bride's surname, exact same date and in the same area as the
cert transcript you have, means that it is worth following up - as there could easily have been a mix up recording the names in either the church, civil, IFHF or familysearch records.
The location reference of Kilgefin on familysearch maybe in relation to the civil parish covering some of the same area RC parish of Kilbride
Do the ages (25 & 18) fit with the later info you have for the couple ?
Shane
-
It will cost US$8.00 for a photocopy of the marriage entry in Ballyleague Registrar’s District. Suggest you request the certificate for Patrick Duffy and unknown McKeon.
Accuracy of some pay-per-view websites.
Where the system falls down is that the computer extract was often produced at Public Expense by disinterested young people taken off the dole queue for a few days a week in an attempt to lower the unemployment figures.
The LDS British Isles Vital Records set of 16 CDs lists the 20 July 1869 Civil birth of Michael Duffy. Father Margaret, mother Margaret McKeon. LDS film 101192.
Details for Fairymount townland:
Ballintober South Barony,
Kilgefin Civil parish,
Roscommon Poor Law Union,
Ballyleague Registrar’s District,
Kilgefin District Electoral Division,
Kilgefin Catholic Parish (Elphin Diocese)
LDS Change of occupiers of land 1857-1920 film number 868115,
LDS Griffith’s Valuation film number 844983 Item 2 (1857)
LDS Tithe Applotment film number 256632 (1824).
Griffith’s Valuation of Fairymount townland lists Catherine Cullen occupying land and a house (each valued at 5 shillings).
Note: When searching the LDS British Isles Vital Records set of 16 CDs it is necessary to for McKeon and Mc Keon. This applies to all names commencing with Mc and O.
-
Hi all
Many thanks for all the help i am receiving in my research.
I don't have an actual civil birth cert for their son Michael Duffy born in 1869.
I sent for the civil birth cert some years ago to the reg office in Roscommon but they said they could find no recordof the birth.At the same time i also applied for abirth cert for their other son Patrick Duffy born in 1871 again no record. Also for the marrige cert for Patrick Duffy and Margeret McKeon no record all from the reg office in Roscommon.
Is there a reg office at Ballyleague or all civil records kept at Roscommon?
Patrick Duffy age from the English census of 1881,1891 and 1901 gives his birth about 1840 therefore in 1868 he would be 28 not 25 as the marrige to Bridget McKeon gives this does not quite match.
Margeret Duffy (McKeon) birth from the same English census her birth matches with that of Bridget McKeon wheh she married in 1868 birth 1850.
I have English birth certs for thier other children born in Englandwhich gives the mothers former name as Margeret McKeown.
I am assuming the marriage record i have for Patrick and Margeret in the Roman Catholic parish of Kilbride took place at Fourmile house but could it have taken place at some other place but still in the parish of Kilbride?
Where and how should i apply for a marrige cert for Patrick and Bridgetand their son Michael and Patrick?
Once again many thanks
Best wishes
John Duffy
-
Irish Civil marriage certificates are inexpensive.
For details visit Schedule of Fees as provided by the General Register Office
Fees Payable by The Public To the General Register Office
http://www.groireland.ie/fees.htm
Search and photocopy of entry in the Register
€6.00
€4.00