RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: king william on Sunday 09 May 10 04:21 BST (UK)
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I have been searching for this family for several years now and have a very little more now.
Catherine Cromwell was baptised in Marksbury, Somerset on 24th February 1799. She was a daughter of John and Hannah Cromwell.
There are two contenders for her parents - John Cromwell who married Hannah Fennell in 1788 at St. Michaels, Bath, and John Cromwell born in 1773 in Lyncomb and Widcomb, Bath and who married a Hannah there in 1799.
I was told a bit of information by someone I have not been able to contact again that the father of John was William Cromwell who married twice, the first about 1747 and the second time about 1754.
I would guess that he would be from the same area.
Is there a Cromwell family of Bath who I could contact as there must be many other descendents with this information.
The very kind man who gave me the information I have so far has told me that Catherine is a direct descendent of Thomas Cromwell which must mean also from Gregory Cromwell, the only son of Thomas.
Catherine married Mortimer Maurice in 1821 in Bristol.
I am in New Zealand and therefore to connect with a Cromwell family of the area would solve a lot for me.
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A friend told me to log into this site re the Cromwell family as there was a message re this family. I am decended from Alfred Richard Cromwell 1846. I have found a baptism parents Richard Cromwell and Mary. From 1851 the family lived in Bath but prior to that I have no idea although Glos is a strong possibility
. Several of us have tried invain to find out about Richard and Mary but can find no trace. Don't know if I can be of any more help.
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Hi famhis65 - nice to hear from you - aren't they an elusive family. A kind lady sent me a site of bathbdm on which I found quite a few Cromwell deaths.
I also found a lot of Cromwells (43 of them) from Westwood, Glouc. which is not that far from Bath, have you checked those ones. The name of Richard featured several times but in earlier dates. I found them on the Mormon site by getting the batch number and entering the name of Cromwell and all those Cromwell relatives came up. The batch number is CO54811 and the years are 1666 to 1876.
Good luck
Robin
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A thought has just occurred to me that John Cromwell or his wife Hannah probably died in the area and there was possibly a will, being in New Zealand I cannot access it but wonder if there is a wills-online facility somewhere. It may mention a daughter Catherine.
I do not know yet which John and Hannah Cromwell my Catherine comes from - the marriage in 1788 or the one in 1799 - even to know that would be a huge help.
I do lean towards the 1788 one as his father William was married in 1747 and then 1754.
Maybe a will could also help famhis65 - by the way have you found out anything else since and was the Westwood lot of any help although I daresay you have already searched that lot.
Robin
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There are no online wills that I know of although you can access some lists of wills in major librarys, you then have to send away for a copy.
I have had a researcher working in the somerset record office but no luck so far. Looking at the occupations and obvious modest means of this family I don't think any would have made a will. As I can find no births marriages or deaths I am now going to research the cromwell family in Scotland as an early photo shows two relatives in Scots military uniform.
Good luck with your research.
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Hi, I am also descended from Alfred Richard Cromwell 1846. Not sure if I have already been in contact with you. I have seen his baptism record but think that his father Richard may be ficticious!! Have you ever come across Alfred Richard Stock? He is our A F Cromwell. Cromwell was his real name but his mother (Mary Cromwell 1809) married a William Stock in 1850 and Alfred took that name for the rest of his childhood. You will never find him as Cromwell on the 1851 or 61 census, nor will you find him as Stock after 1861. The address on the 1861 census (Stock) and his marriage cert 1863 (Cromwell) and his mother (Mary Stock/Cromwell's) death cert 1867 are all the same.
This address is also on the marriage cert in 1850 of Mary Cromwell and William Stock. On that cert her fathers name is Joseph Cromwell a mason. On census returns Mary usually gives her place of birth as Rode, Somerset and although I can't find her baptism there, her father Joseph Cromwell is there and the family goes back several generations. What do you make of that?
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I am a bit confused as Alfred under Stock is born c 1840, Bath, Somerset in the 1851 Census.1861 Census he is Alfred R still born c 1841??
William Stock seems to be in Glous in 1841 Married to a Margaret.
So then Mary and Margaret are his Children with Margaret I presume?
By 1871 I can see Albert is now born c 1844 and back to Cromwell married to Charlotte.
Several people have Mary Cromwell born c 1809, Rode, in their Trees;
(please excuse me if you already have this!)
Parents,
JOSEPH Cromwell 1768-1813
Esther TANNER 1772
Siblings;
Joseph 1794-1826
Esther 1802
Camilla 1805
MARY 1809-1867, Married to William STOCK
WILLIAM TANNER 1812
FreeREG has a Marriage of;
Joseph CROMWELL
Hester TANNER, 11 August 1793, St Lawrence, Rode, Somerset + Witnesses
Burial of;
Hester CROMWELL, Age 48, 21 May 1820, St Lawrence, Rode, Somerset
Joseph CROMWELL, Age 43, 18 March 1813, St Lawrence, Rode, Somerset
JOSEPH Jnr is there also 1826 and Daughter, unnamed in 1811, Father Joseph
I cant find Christening of any of the Children with my resources.
There is a FRANCES Cromwell Christened 14 January 1806, Bathwick, Somerset, to a JOSEPH and ESTHER
Another Record has the same date and Parents but as CRAMWELL, Wesleyan, Bath, Somerset
(Source Familysearch Pilot)
Trish :)
I cant find a Birth Reg for Alfred 1839-1847 under Cromwell even using soundex except Bradford Yks 1843??? I even tried Stock.
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I think Alfred was probably born c1842-4. His ages vary quite alot on census returns, from 1851-1901 his ages are 11, 20, 27, 34, 49 and 57 and his death cert in 1907 says 63. I have never been able to find a birth under either name. I don't think it was registered as it wasn't illegal not to register at the time. If he was illegitimate it would be understandable.
It sounds a bit far fetched i know. I never expected to find the marriage between Mary Cromwell and William Stock, it clinched it for me. He had 2 daughters and she had a son and in the 1861 census he listed his daughters before Alfred even though he was older? The address that always comes up is Upper Trafalgar Place but No.4 only on 1861 census and Mary's death cert.
I can't explain Richard away. He is mentioned on the baptism and on Alfreds marriage cert but never on any census and no death record.
I am descended from Alfreds daughter Kate Cromwell, she is my GG Grandmother.
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Hi to 780 famhis and Trish,
It is good for me to even be able to contact anyone with a Cromwell line.
I have been searching for my Catherine Cromwell for years and she fits into the era of Mary Cromwell born in 1809 as Catheirne was born in 1799 in Marksbury, Somerset, which I know is very near to Bath. I do know her parents were John and Hannah Cromwell and his father was William Cromwell.
There was a Joseph Cromwell who married Mary Harford in 1786 at the Abbey of St Peter and St Paul in Bath, and they are related to the family that my Catherine married into, so somehow they are of importance to the history I am searching for.
It is the earlier history of Catherine I am seeking as I have been told that her line goes back to Thomas Cromwell.
I iwll delve a little further into these names and see if any bells are ringing for me - I wish they would as Catherine has been a huge mystery for years.
Robin aka King William
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Hi Robin,
Catherines Christening is on FreeREG to JOHN/HANNAH at Marksbury
Siblings;
ISAAC 1792 at Marksbury (*Correction in Bath, Somerset)
Other possible Children to them at Widcombe;
JEMIMA 1791
CAROLINE 1796
JOHN 1800
(you can check exact details for yourself)
As you say;
John CROMWELL Married Hannah FENNELL, 21 August 1788, St Michael, Bath, Somerset
Winesses Henry SPERING Ann HANDCOCK
I cant find any Marriage for Jemima/Caroline etc on there.
Could they all have moved to Glous?
With regard to the 1841 Census with Mary Cromwell as Head of Household with Mary and Mortimer Maurice it is possible she is a Wife of one of Catherines Siblings.
Trish :)
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I am so pleased someone has at last managed to trace Mary Cromwell and "Richard".
The story by 780 now makes sense as my Gt Gt Grandparents Alfred Richard and his wife Charlotte nee Hobbs lived at 4,Upper Trafalgar Place after their marriage and my Gt Grandmother Charlotte Elizabeth Cromwell has the address on her birth certificate.
If you have the marriage certificate of William Stock and Mary, does it say her status at marriage ie Spinster or could she have been a widow? It seems quite old for a first marriage
My Gt Grandmother was always changing her age, so much so they had to amend the death certificate! She also had an official and unofficial birthday and constantly called her children by middles or nickname so that adds to the confusion.
Keep hunting and good luck!!
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Hi famhis, many thanks for the information, it is nice to be able to give Catherine some siblings. I wonder about the John Cromwell born in 1800 in Lyncomb Widcombe, as there was also a John Cromwell who married a Hannah in Lyncomb Widcombe in 1799 and I wonder if that John was their son and that Catherine and at least Isaac were the children of the John Cromwell and Hannah Fennell who married in 1788 at St. Michaels, Bath.
I tried to get into FreeReg but could only get into FreeBMD which begins at 1837 so could not see Catherine on her birth year of 1799. I went around and around that site but could not get into the part where I put the names up. I am not that technically savvy.
Thanks - Robin
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Hi Robin,
This link should take you straight to the Search page of FreeREG
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl
There weren't very many Cromwells in Somerset, so it's probably easiest to just enter Cromwell in the Surname box, choose Somerset from the County list and leave the rest blank. Enter forenames or date ranges if you want to narrow the search. (Specifying a forename will give entries where either the child or a parent had that name.) To see the full details of an item in the list that comes up, click on the number at the start of the line.
Good luck with your search
David
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Hi, on their marriage cert Mary Cromwell was a spinster and William Stock a widower.
There are several generations of Cromwell's in Rode, Somerset and prior to that the family may have lived in Westwood, Wiltshire which is very close to Rode. The Cromwell family first appear in Westwood in 1612 with the christening of a Christopher son of Christopher. There is then a 10yr gap in the register until 1622 with Christophers son William baptised in 1627. Then from 1634 until 1661 the register is lost. This means that we can't make the link through it. The family is firmly established by the 1670's with multiple baptisms all the way through to the 1720's when they almost disappear. Probably the first Christopher was the father of the whole clan in Westwood but because of the gap I can't say so for sure.
No Catherine's at all though..
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Many thanks for the FreeReg site - I have put it on to Favourites, I will now have a lovely play around the site.
Robin
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Mary Cromwell William Stock
I now have the marriage certificate but can't read the Profession of William, it looks like Pennant Mason ! Ann Nurse the witness was the wife of another Mason.
I have noticed the mistakes in the 1851 census - both of William's girls from his first marriage have the wrong birth year - I checked with Bath BMD so it's no wonder Alfred's age is wrong. His baptism record seems more accurate. I have followed through Alfred's half brother William Stock but can't find a death anywhere for his father William Stock, presumably it is between 1851 and 1861.
There is another marriage for a William Stock in 1860 - I wonder!!!
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Mary Cromwell William Stock
I now have the marriage certificate but can't read the Profession of William, it looks like Pennant Mason !
Pennants are Paving Stones. (I think strictly speaking Pennant is a type of stone, found in Gloucestershire, but, locally at least, it is used for the paving stones which are made from it.) Lots of them in Bath pavements.
David
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I have looked up the 1852 Bath Directory it has the following entry
Stock, Wm. (Nurse and Stock) pennant stone yard, Broad Quay, Bath.
Thanks for your help
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Trish 1120
I am just going back over everything I have received about my Catherine Cromwell and I see that in October you mention Isaac Cromwell baptised in 1792 in Marksbury, the same place as Catherine.
I went back into FreeReg to have a look at the entry and could only find two entries for Isaac and both show him as being baptised in Bath, the son of John and Hannah Cromwell.
Can you please show me where I can see any reference to Isaac and Marksbury - I could be looking in the wrong place. It would be nice to find a sibling or two for Catherine.
Robin aka King William
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Sorry I made a mistake whilst posting info. It was in Bath.
I will correct it.
Trish :-[
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Hi, it seems to be a long time since this chat took place. We are now in a world with much more data and DNA tests!!
I just wondered if anyone here is still engaged with the search for info on the Cromwell's of Bath? For reference, I am a direct descendent of Alfred Richard Cromwell, like a few others on this chat. My G Grandfather was Bert Cromwell, the youngest of Alfred's children.
It's fascinating to re-read this chat after so long. I'm still none the wiser on whether Alfred is descended from any of the 'famous' Cromwell's and would love to know if anyone can share any updates?
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Welcome to Rootschat pitstopfrog.
The original posters related to the Family have no been on here for many years.
Hopefully they will respond to you though if they have the same email for notifications.
There is a fairly good Tree on Anc;
JOSEPH 1768-1813
GEORGE 1746-1805
DANIEL 1719-1797 (have him bapt Wiltshire but FreeREG has St Lawrence, Rode)
+ several other generations in Wiltshire.
Trish :)
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Hi trish1120, thanks so much for your reply, much appreciated! I've now found some of that info on Ancestry, thank you. I will have a dig around and see what else I can find.
Do you have a link to the Cromwells or are you an independent researcher?
Welcome to Rootschat pitstopfrog.
The original posters related to the Family have no been on here for many years.
Hopefully they will respond to you though if they have the same email for notifications.
There is a fairly good Tree on Anc;
JOSEPH 1768-1813
GEORGE 1746-1805
DANIEL 1719-1797 (have him bapt Wiltshire but FreeREG has St Lawrence, Rode)
+ several other generations in Wiltshire.
Trish :)
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No I am not related to the Cromwells but just like many people on here like to try and help others :)
(just as we were helped on here when we first joined)
Trish :)