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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: DeeBoneham on Tuesday 22 June 10 16:51 BST (UK)

Title: *Completed* Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: DeeBoneham on Tuesday 22 June 10 16:51 BST (UK)
I have a little mystery to solve.  I know that this lady was married to a Sgt Jervis John Owen in 1944 just before he was killed while in the RAF.  I know she was living in Brockenhurst at the time.  He was cremated in Cambridge.... I can't find this ladies birth or death on ancestry or free bmd.  I wonder if therefore if she was an Australian as was Sgt Owen (he was from Sydney). Can someone do a look up for me and see if you can find her death over there.  No idea when she was born but I think it might be between 1912 and 1916....
many thanks
Dee
Title: Re: Margaret Jean Owen (nee Belgrave)
Post by: jorose on Tuesday 22 June 10 17:35 BST (UK)
freebmd.rootsweb.com shows the marriage with her maiden name given as "Gatenby"; was she a widow?
Where does "Belgrave" come from?
Title: Re: Margaret Jean Owen (nee Belgrave)
Post by: Robert Coble on Tuesday 22 June 10 23:09 BST (UK)
Hi Dee,
Service Record

http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/veteran.asp?ServiceID=R&VeteranID=1059407#summary1

Title: Re: Margaret Jean Owen (nee Belgrave)
Post by: ennael on Tuesday 22 June 10 23:11 BST (UK)
there are 3 entires for Jervis OWEN listed on www.naa.gov.au, they are undigitised so you would have to apply for the information from the website, there is a cost involved.
Next of kin - Margaret BELGRAVE.
Leanne
Title: Re: Margaret Jean Owen (nee Belgrave)
Post by: ennael on Tuesday 22 June 10 23:14 BST (UK)
Jervis listing on Commonwealth War Graves Commission site.
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2651724

Leanne
Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: cando on Wednesday 23 June 10 03:01 BST (UK)
Quote
I know that this lady was married to a Sgt Jervis John Owen in 1944 just before he was killed while in the RAF.
Wouldn't he be in the RAAF?    Could you please tell us the source of your information that her name was Margaret Jean as she is noted as Margaret June on http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=2651724

Jervis J was killed on 22 Apr 1944 and his file would certainly be helpful.
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
>Search now as a guest

There is a facility to purchase the file on the website.  If I recall you can either have the digitised file placed on the website for a fee or for a little more you can have a copy of his file mailed to you and the digitised file is placed on the website as a result of your purchase.   If an Australian serviceman married during his period of service in the UK a copy of a marriage cert is usually in his file.

Marriage
Sept quarter 1933
GATENBY  George H  McCabe    Hemsworth 9c/409    
McCABE Margaret J  Gatenby    Hemsworth 9c/   409   

Death
Deaths Jun 1938 
GATENBY George H 46 years    Huddersfield 9a/427

Marriage
Sept 1943
GATENBY Margaret J  Owen    Uxbridge    3a/403    
OWEN Jervis J  Gatenby    Uxbridge    3a/403

Jervis J OWEN killed 22 Apr 1944

Marriage
Sept quarter 1944
OWEN Margaret J    New Forest 2b/1806
BELGRAVE George C New Forest 2b/1806

and then there is death but I am only speculating here :-\

BELGRAVE Margaret 
Born 17 Jul 1913 Death Registered Mar 1995
Estimated age at death 81 years
Blackpool and Fylde/Lancs   Reg# D35C/5811D    Entry# 12

These are the only Margaret McCABE births in 1913

Births Sep quarter 1913   

McCABE Margaret    Grady    Hartlepool 10a/312    
McCABE Margaret    McCabe    London C 1c/24

Of course she may have married again ;D. 

Cheers
Cando

Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 23 June 10 05:05 BST (UK)
Birth registration of Jervis John OWEN:

OWEN Jervis J 1915 NOWRA #8821
Father: John J
Mother: Una
Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: cando on Wednesday 23 June 10 05:11 BST (UK)
According the information on links posted he was actually born 23 Dec 1914 and the birth was registered 1915.

Dee I forgot to suggest that it  may be a good idea to purchase either Margaret's first or 2nd marriage cert.  I would purchase the first as perhaps the details may be more accurate.  Just my two bob's worth ;D

Do let us know if you purchase this file :)
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx
OWEN Jervis John  1938
Application for registration of a design by Jervis John Owen for Cigarette papers - Class 5

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: DeeBoneham on Wednesday 23 June 10 08:24 BST (UK)
Thanks to all you for your sterling work  ;D I am going to give my friend Geoff this link as he was the one that started all this by asking me to find some stuff about his cremation in Cambridge England....
You are all superstars
Dee
Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: judb on Wednesday 23 June 10 09:42 BST (UK)
There is a death notice for Jervis's father, John William OWEN (RAN, rtd), husband of Una, father of Dorothy, Gwendolyn and Jervis.  The Argus, 5 May, 1937.  He lived in Dulwich Hill, Sydney. 

http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11061786?searchTerm=una+owen+jervis+john+NOT+%28bay%29

Wondering if Jervis was named after Jervis Bay as his father was RAN and his birth registered in Nowra.

Jervis is also listed on the Australian WW2 Roll of Honour - no information further to what is already shown though.

http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/veteran.asp?ServiceID=R&VeteranID=1059407

Sorry, my references which were shown below were for the wrong person, so have removed references


Doesn't help find Margaret though  :-\


Judith

Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Wednesday 23 June 10 10:22 BST (UK)
Quote
And another list which gives the cirumstances of his death and a photo of a memorial in France to him and his crew.
http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com/raf1943/owen.html
And a mention here
http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-grave-photographs/11149-raaf-burials-europe-49.html

Judith, those last two links you posted are not him, easily confused though because of the names  ;D

They are this serviceman:

Pilot: W/Cmdr. John Jervis Owen M.I.D. 26062 R.A.F.V.R. Died Age. 35

W/Cmdr. John Jervis Owen M.I.D.
Le Conquet Communal Cemetery. Grave 4
Son of John Alexander Owen and of Dora Sophia Owen (nee Jervis); husband of Rosemary Valerie Owen, of Feniton, Devon.
Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: ennael on Wednesday 23 June 10 10:27 BST (UK)
just to clarify,
There are 2 John/Jervis OWENS', very similar.

1/ U.K Jervis OWEN
 OWEN , JOHN JERVIS  Wing Commander 26062 06/07/1943  35 Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve United Kingdom Grave 4. LE CONQUET COMMUNAL CEMETERY

2/ Australian Jervis OWEN  
OWEN , JERVIS JOHN  Flying Officer 422676 22/04/1944  29 Royal Australian Air Force Australian Column 2. CAMBRIDGE CREMATORIUM

From www.cwgc.org

addit: beaten to the punch.

Leanne
Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: cando on Wednesday 23 June 10 10:44 BST (UK)
Robert posted this link
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/veteran.asp?ServiceID=R&VeteranID=1059407#summary1

Leanne and I posted these
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2651724
http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=2651724

and it really doesn't find help find Margaret and that was the request ;D

Some certs are needed :)

Cando
Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: DeeBoneham on Wednesday 23 June 10 11:16 BST (UK)
Just for information:
51 Operational Training Unit (OTU) formed at Debden on August 25 1941 offering night fighter crews courses mainly on Blenheims. This assumed major importance and Cranfield acquired a satellite at Twinwood. August 1942 saw the first of the Beaufighters for 51 OTU arrive. During March/April 1943, Seven Wellington X1s arrived to train 100 Group Mosquito crews. No 3501 Servicing Unit was set up to handle overhauls of fighters. There were plenty of pilots available for flight testing, because No 3501 Pilot Replacement Unit was also there until September 1944 when it was moved to Middle Wallop. In May/June 1943 Americans came to learn to operate A1 MKV111 American marked Beaufighters. No 51 OTU were still there with equipment at that time listed as:- 78 Beaufighter 1Fs (A1 Mk 1V), 4 Beaufighter VIFs, 4 Beaufighter 1Fs without A1, 10 Blenheim Vs (dual control), 6 Beauforts, 3 Blenheim 1s, 1 Blenheim 1V, 3 Lysanders, 5 Martinets, 4 Magisters and 1 Dominie. In July 1944 Mosquito II's started to supplement 51 OTUs Beaufighters until in February 1945 the last Beaufighter was withdrawn. No 51 OTU disbanded June 14 1945 and during the last week of June, the remaining Mosquitoes, Beaufighters and Beauforts were flown away. Canadian and Australian airmen who were there were also starting for home. By the end of August 1945 all of Cranfield's aircraft had gone.
Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: DeeBoneham on Wednesday 23 June 10 11:17 BST (UK)
just to clarify,


2/ Australian Jervis OWEN  
OWEN , JERVIS JOHN  Flying Officer 422676 22/04/1944  29 Royal Australian Air Force Australian Column 2. CAMBRIDGE CREMATORIUM

From www.cwgc.org

Leanne
This is the one.  I am confused though cos the wedding I could find was in September 44 and he is listed as being killled earlier in 44.  Did it get registered retrospectively?
Dee
Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: cando on Wednesday 23 June 10 12:34 BST (UK)
As I posted previously, it would appear that Margaret J OWEN, widow remarried during the September quarter 1944 ie marriages registered in the months of July, Aug and Sept 1944.  You need to purchase the war service record for further information.

Marriage
Sept quarter1943
GATENBY Margaret J  Owen    Uxbridge    3a/403   
OWEN Jervis J  Gatenby    Uxbridge    3a/403

Jervis J OWEN killed 22 Apr 1944

Marriage
Sept quarter 1944
OWEN Margaret J    New Forest 2b/1806
BELGRAVE George C New Forest 2b/1806

Where did you find the name Margaret Jean.  According to his MI her name was Margaret June.

All research is speculative until validated by certificates.

Cando
Title: Re: Margaret Jean OWEN (nee BELGRAVE)
Post by: DeeBoneham on Thursday 24 June 10 17:29 BST (UK)
Thanx for that. Apologies I had misread your first answer...
Dee  :)