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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lincolnshire => Topic started by: celiabz on Tuesday 29 June 10 19:38 BST (UK)
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I am trying to locate the exact site of the crash that ended the life of my sister's father in February 1943.
I have all relevant war records etc. but not the precise place that the plane went down.
Is anyone aware of any local records? I wrote to the parish four years ago and they were very sympathetic but could not help.
I know that Lincolnshire folk regularly saw WW2 air sorties limp home or crash land.
I would be grateful for any pointers. Any ideas?
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Hello celiabz,
can you please post the name of your sister's father? This would help identify unit and date of loss - which can be chased up,
You could try your county Constabulary. Some police forces have museums, some have an interested officer who maintains "old paperwork". Maybe there had been Police involvement in the aftermath of the crash.
Dave
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Sergeant Air Gunner 783767 Stanislaw Kaminski aged 27 years
300 Squadron
crash February 20, 1943
Place of death recorded as Nettleham Field Farm.
"Vickers Wellington BK305 (BH-E) Crashed near Lincoln."
I recently googled "Nettleham Field Farm, Nettleham RD" again only to find that in 2010 the farm still exists. Field Farm House, Lincoln Road, Nettleham, Lincoln LN2 2NG, with aerial views of the farm is available on-line. When my sister traced the death certificate in 2006 this information had not been available.
I have written to the owners but maybe that is a bit intrusive?
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Don't assume writing to the owners is too intrusive.
My bro crash landed on a farm in WW2 and the farmer's family responded to me parent's letters. We became very good friends and friendship has continued these 60 yrs.
charlotte
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:)Thank you Charlotte.
How kind of you to be so encouraging.
I sent a s.a.e. so I may be lucky.
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Let us know how you get on with this please :)
charlotte
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Thanks for posting details. A family get together is going to limit my time on line until the weekend, but lets see what I can find.
Good for you in writing to the occupiers of Field Farm - if you don't ask you don't get!
Be prepared that you might get no answer, however a positive answer would be treasure indeed.
Last year I attempted to confirm a crash site in Cornwall. I wrote to 12 nearby farms. Four responses, one of which was that proverbial treasure, so fingers crossed for you.
Be back soon.
Dave
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It looks as if his home base was RAF Ingham about 6-8 miles NW of Nettleham http://www.raf-lincolnshire.info/ingham/ingham.htm
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Thank you all for the positives.
Official records are one thing but I would love to have a clear location.
As children we went (as did lots of Midlanders) to Skegness, Mablethorpe and the like so we were probably very close, very often.
The official grave is at Newark with those of other brave Poles who died in action. (Last night's Channel 4 programme was very poignant to me as my own father stayed in the UK and had to join the resettlement corps - which was not an easy thing to do. The programme didn't go into that.)
Any help you people can offer is more than welcome. Short of wandering round the highways and byways of Lincolnshire and asking local people this is my best shot. So, thanks again.
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Hello celiabz,
I appreciate your main aim is to identify the crash site. Nettleham Field Farm might be as precise as you could get without local memory.
two ideas to assist you...
Make contact with the local aviation archaeology group, here is a link:
http://www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/popiOrgVenue.asp?oid=275
this will give you a contact e-mail and phone number
Also contact the RAF Museum:
research@rafmuseum.org
ask for the Air Ministry Form 1180 for Wellington BK305 and quote the date of the crash. This might show the most precise crash location in official records.
You know Stanislaw Kaminski's resting place along with his crew mates.
A cemetery photo can be found at The Commonwealth War Graves Commission site http://www.cwgc.org/ and search under cemeteries for Newark on Trent.
Running out of room - further post follows this.
Dave
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Hello again,
I seemed to have run out of space in the text box on the previous post...
Are you aware of the occupants of the Wellington?
Warrant Officer Edward Szafran
Sergeant Stanislaw Kaminski
Sergeant Julian Kramarz
accompanying them where soldiers Sergeant A Dabrowski and Corporal T Kukurowski
The Squadron diaries of Polish air Force Squadrons have been summarised, and for this incident you might like to go to:
http://orb.polishaf.pl/300sqn/1943/1943-02-no-300-squadron-f540 where you will see that the aircraft was aloft on an air test [local flight following maintence/upgrade] such flights did not require a full crew and were often the opportunity for chums to hitch a ride [strictly against regulations, of course].
Kramarz appears to have been the subject of a forum thread at [url][http://www.mysliwcy.pl/forum/watki.php?id=1021&ustaw=pt/url]
Good luck with your quest,
Dave
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Dear Flakdodger (Dave),
Most of the information you kindly offered I did have already because I began researching this all over a decade ago via the MOD and at Kew, but new things turn up on-line month by month. The internet is such a treasure trove nowadays, but can be dangerous if you don't check primary sources too. I suppose I'm lucky that my original research came before stuff was "out there" and has been confirmed by other web-sites.
So, very many thanks for the leads you have suggested.
Over the years I have seen the information publicly available on 300 Squadron links but was worried about naming others, wasn't sure of the ethics of that. There were family conversations about the two who shouldn't have been there in the Wellington but they were often in a "don't tell the children" hushed tone.
I had almost given up on taking this thread any further until another link (with someone who was a pilot) made me think again of other ways of moving on. Then the Channel 4 programme about 303 Squadron last week made me even more determined to locate the crash site, as a matter of respect, if it's possible.
I visit a family grave in Suffolk every few years so a detour through Lincolnshire would be manageable one day.
I will check all the leads you have suggested.
Thanks for your time and careful thoughts,
Again, Celia
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Great news came for me today.
My thanks to all who made so many positive suggestions.
The LARG group secretary has written back to me with a map produced by a colleague that has the exact location of the 1943 crash, in the middle of the ring road (A15/A46) in Lincolnshire due south of Riseholme, not in Nettleham itself but between Riseholme and Lincoln Roads.
It a place where a tribute will be laid one day by someone in the family I'm sure.
All good wishes, Celia
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Celia,
that is great news. Very pleased for you.
Dave :)
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Hi
I contacted the RAF Museum at Hendon and they provided me with a copy of the aircraft accident card ( Form A M 1180). This has the place of crash -- for my case, 700 yds East of Airfield.
Although I knew from the inquest that the crash was at a place called Franklins Farm, Ivy Lane, Coningsby, I have now narrowed it down.
Don't forget that, unless it is vertical, most crashes cover a very large area,so in wartime, they would just give an approximation and not an exact grid ref to 6 figures.
Barry
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I have also e-mailed the RAF Museum but have received no reply yet. Hopefully they will respond. Maybe I should write a letter on paper too?
I did mention the Air Ministry form 1180 because Flakdodger had identified it to help me.
LARG responded quite quickly and I was very grateful for that.
I was not aware that there may have been an inquest for this crash, were all subjected to one?
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Hi Celia
Don't know if they all had an inquest, but worth a check- again, local paper and coroners office of crash area.
Barry
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Thanks Barry, I'll certainly give those a try too.
My sister's father had been on several bombing raids - and had survived hand injuries he sustained. So to die on a routine flight, not on operations, is very sad. Celia
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Hello Celia, I am happy to find the news about Stanislaw Kaminski, as Julian Kramarz was on the board with him and died the same plane, same day, Julian is my relative and I am searching all the information about him, and I am trying to find if he had any children ? Thank you all who help to find any information !
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Hi Barbara8
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
According to her profile celiabz hasn't been online here since 2010. However, as long as her email asddress hasn't changed, she should receive notifications that we have posted here and hopefully come back soon.
Fingers crossed.
Dawn
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Dave,
Thank You very much for response!
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Hello everyone
I am a volunteer of Polish foundation PMP pmp.org.pl.
I live in Lincoln 10 minutes from the Nettleham Field Farm. Today I went to ask the farmers if they know anything. It turns out that all these fields belong to the company that manages the plowing and cultivation on these fields. I will be happy to help in this matter.
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Welcome to Rootschat !
Unfortunately this is an old thread, the last post was in 2013 and some of the posters have not been active for several years.
It`s possible that you will connect with soneone.