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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wicklow => Topic started by: wicklow way on Wednesday 07 July 10 09:11 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm looking for some information on my gg grandmother Catherine Keavers, married to John Heffernan, Killadreenan (1911 census) and Killmacullagh (1901 census), Co. Wicklow. They married sometime around 1890 and had four children.
I believe Catherine was previously married to a James Sinnott and had two children (Bridget and James) from this marriage.
I have birth certs on Bridget, James and my g grandfather Michael but can find no other information in relation to where she married John or whom her parents were other than Katherine (her mother) as on the 1901 census.
Any help would be much appreciated
Wicklow way
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Some of the answers to your questions are in the census records you've already found.
1911 census- Catherine born c1866 (so just after civil registration of births if age given is correct- see 1901 though) married to John c1890.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wicklow/Newcastle_Lower/Killadreenan_Town/896921/
1901 census- Kilmacullagh- Katherin's birthdate now works out at c1861 so there might not be a birth certificate
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wicklow/Newcastle_Upper/Kilmacullagh/1815976/
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Hi aghadowey,
Thank you for your help. I have been using the IFHF site and Familysearch and have had no luck trying to get a close match for Catherine.
If I am correct, the birth cert I have for my gg grandfather John would have him baptised in the Carnew area. I wondered would it be possible that Catherine or her parents were not from the Wicklow area!.
I have been unable to find a match for Catherines birth or indeed a marriage between Catherine and John!
If i were to go to the National Library, i wouldn't know where to start as i dont know what parish to search in.
Some guidance would be much appreciated
Wicklow way
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1) ....I have been using the IFHF site and Familysearch and have had no luck trying to get a close match for Catherine.....
2) If I am correct, the birth cert I have for my gg grandfather John would have him baptised in the Carnew area. I wondered would it be possible that Catherine or her parents were not from the Wicklow area!.
3) I have been unable to find a match for ....a marriage between Catherine and John!
4) If i were to go to the National Library, i wouldn't know where to start as i dont know what parish to search in.
1) The familysearch BMD index only has births from the start of Civil registration in 1864 , so if Catherine was born in 1861, as the 1901 census suggests, then there will be no registration. There are several RC parish that dont have old records, so it's worth checking first that the records exists for the area the family lived (or where the baptism or marriage took place) and are also included in the IFHF sources.
2) Where was this John born - and where did his parents live at the time ? Both census returns state that Catherine was born in Co. Wicklow..
3) It's worth widening the possible dates for the marriage in case the census info is slightly out, and also trying various different spellings of their family and first names in case there is a problem with those.
4) see RC Parishes, Co. Wicklow (http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/wicklowrc.htm) (Irish Times)
Shane
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Both the locations listed for the family on the census returns are near to the town of Kilcoole and in the RC Parish of Kilquade. see google map : Kilcoole, Kilmacullagh & Killadrennan (http://www.google.ie/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=kilmacullagh&daddr=kilcoole,+co.+wicklow+to:Killadreenan,+County+Wicklow&hl=en&geocode=Fd4jKgMdQOmi_ylderu7YqVnSDHRnim7p8cAJg%3B%3B&mra=ls&sll=53.090445,-6.08253&sspn=0.046391,0.072098&ie=UTF8&ll=53.091241,-6.070633&spn=0.047628,0.093384&z=13)
Records for this parish go back to about 1826 for marriages and baptisms and are on microfilm Pos. 6478 in the NLI. The IFHF list of sources mentions baptisms for this parish, but it's possible that they dont have all the details. (Sections of some registers can be very difficult to read and may not have been transcribed - or were transcribed incorrectly)
Details of records available for the RC Parish of Kilquade (http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/rcparishmaps/index.cfm?fuseaction=showidrecords&CityCounty=Wicklow&CityCounty=Wicklow&parish=Kilquade&churchid=484) (Irish Times)
Townlands in the Civil Parish of Newcastle Upper (http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/townlands/index.cfm?fuseaction=TownlandsInCivil&civilparishid=2701&civilparish=Newcastle%20Upper&citycounty=Wicklow) (includes Kilmacullagh)
Townlands in the Civil Parish of Newcastle Lower (http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/fuses/townlands/index.cfm?fuseaction=TownlandsInCivil&civilparishid=2700&civilparish=Newcastle-Lower&citycounty=Wicklow) (includes Killadreenan)
Shane
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Hi shanew147
Thank you very much for all your help!
As I'm only new to researching my family there is so much i have to learn. :)
The area I'm searching for is in the parish of Kilquade. While i have found birth certs for some of Catherines children there are no matches for either of her marriages to John Heffernan or James Sinnott in this parish.
It just may be possible that not all of the records for this parish are on the IFHF site.
The baptism cert i have for John Heffernan 02/05/1860 shows that his parents, James Heffernan and Mary Elliot lived in Coolroe, Carnew, Co. Wicklow.
I'll start the search again and widen the time frame and try different spellings of names etc... If that fails to show up anything I'll use that microfilm Pos.6478 and go check it out in the NLI.
Much appreciated
Wicklow way
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Hi, this might help
Marriage:
Catherine Synnott/ John Heffernan district: Rathdrum/ date : Jan - Mar 1895,
Volume: 2, Page: 873
Moderator's Comment: see Irish civil registration index-
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347
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Hi brennan1,
Thank you very much for that information. I suppose when you spend alot of time looking for a particular person, ??? the information on them can be staring you in the face and you just can't see it :)
Thanks again
Wicklow way
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I am also looking at this family. Kate/ Katherine Keavers is my great grandmother but through her first marrige. I have a little more info about the Heffernans if you require it
Regards
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Hi brennan1,
I have found it difficult to find anything on Catherine Keavers, other than the info from the 1901 & 1911 Census. However, over the past few days I have found birth certs on Matthew Keevers 1830 & William Keevers 1833, Kilquade. I wondered if one of these might be Catherines Father?
The 1911 census showed that Catherine and John were married 21years at that time. So, I was wondering, did they not marry until 1895 instead of 1890 as shown in a previous post? or was it just not registered until then? Their son John was 10 & 20 in the census so should have been born around 1891.
I have birth certs for Michael & Catherine, Catherines children from this marriage and Bridget and James, children from her marriage to James Sinnott.
I have no other info on John Heffernan Jr but have quite alot on the other Heffernan Children
Regards
Wicklow way
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Hi, Wicklow way
The previous info I gave you about the marrige of Catherine Synott/Sinnott and John Heffernan in
1895 in Rathdrum is I believe your family. I did a search to see if John Heffernan had been married previously which would account for John jnr's age if he was from a previous marriage. I know the census shows they were married for 21 years but it also shows them as John 46 in 1901 and 50 in 1911, Catherine 40 in 1901 and 45 in 1911. So they may just have said anything to get it out of the way. I'm sure they had bigger problems than filling in a census form. Getting back to the possibility of a previous marriage for John, the only one I could come with it was a john Heffernan /Jane Bell in 1890 in Rathdrum again. Where did you get info about William and Matthew Keavers from. One of them might well be her Father as the name is not that common certainly with this spelling.
regards Brennan 1
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Hi brennan1
Yes indeed!!, I have found that information given on both the 1901 and 1911 census were set between very wide margins. In one case my ggg grandmother is 45 in 1901 and 74 in 1911. She had a son age 7 in 1901 who turned out to be her 19yr old grand son in 1911. Maybe she did this to protect her illigitimate Grandson. Either way, times were tough and needs must!
I hadn't thought of John Jr not being Catherines son. Have done a search on John Jr with mother as Jane Bell and father as John Heffernan but have had no luck.
The Church Baptism Record I have from the IFHF site is of:
Matthew Keevers, 15th August 1830, Kilquade, Parents, Patrick Keevers and Mary Cullen, Sponsers, James Cullen and Ann Short.
I didn't purchase the record for William Keevers, 1833, Kilquade, because i wasn't too sure if they were the right family.
Let me kow if i can add to the info you already have.
Regards Wicklow way
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Hi just a little update :)
Having got the marriage cert for Catherine and John, it would seem that Catherine was a widow and John a bachlor when they married in 1895 in Kilquade. Her father was William Long and Johns father was also John.
So..., the birth cert I had for John proves to be the wrong one!!
Catherine on the other hand was baptised Catherine Long, with her mothers maiden name as Keevers.
Still need to find out where John Jnr. fits into the equation ???.........
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Hi, I am researching the Heffernan family for a friend and noted that you had more information about them. I wonder if I could avail of your offer and obtain more information about them. I have much more information about the more recent family but barely anything about their 1800s history.
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Hi Richard,
I am very sorry but your reply to Wicklow Way has sadly just bounced back to us, it looks like WW has changed his email address but sadly we do not know what the new one is.
I did a search with the details he registered with but sadly nothing came up.
Regards
Sarah Email address has now been updated and working again
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Hi Sarah
Thank you so much for letting me know.
Kind regards
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Hi RichardAC,
It's been a while since I've been online. Did you find out anymore info on your Heffernans.
Regards,
Wicklow Way